Author Topic: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring  (Read 8310 times)

partgypsy

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2018, 12:24:17 PM »
If I ever get married again, I will ask for my car to be paid off over a nice ring : )


I don't really get the camp that says a woman should have no input on her engagement ring. It's like telling a guy you are buying  him a car, but he gets no input on what kind of car it is. Maybe it made sense way back when when the man was supposed to take a lead and propose. But nowadays I am assuming that the couple talked about many important things, including whether they want to get married, before the actual proposal. So asking her what kind of ring she likes is not ruining the surprise. Rather it should be the first in many mutual decisions and compromises they will need to discuss and work through, financial personal, etc.

Slee_stack

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2018, 01:46:53 PM »
If I ever get married again, I will ask for my car to be paid off over a nice ring : )


I don't really get the camp that says a woman should have no input on her engagement ring. It's like telling a guy you are buying  him a car, but he gets no input on what kind of car it is. Maybe it made sense way back when when the man was supposed to take a lead and propose. But nowadays I am assuming that the couple talked about many important things, including whether they want to get married, before the actual proposal. So asking her what kind of ring she likes is not ruining the surprise. Rather it should be the first in many mutual decisions and compromises they will need to discuss and work through, financial personal, etc.
I don't really get the whole engagement ring thing to begin with in today's world.  Why an expensive gift for half of a couple?!?

Seems an odd start to forming a team.

partgypsy

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2018, 02:55:53 PM »
If I ever get married again, I will ask for my car to be paid off over a nice ring : )


I don't really get the camp that says a woman should have no input on her engagement ring. It's like telling a guy you are buying  him a car, but he gets no input on what kind of car it is. Maybe it made sense way back when when the man was supposed to take a lead and propose. But nowadays I am assuming that the couple talked about many important things, including whether they want to get married, before the actual proposal. So asking her what kind of ring she likes is not ruining the surprise. Rather it should be the first in many mutual decisions and compromises they will need to discuss and work through, financial personal, etc.
I don't really get the whole engagement ring thing to begin with in today's world.  Why an expensive gift for half of a couple?!?

Seems an odd start to forming a team.

Yes some have said it's outmoded. I have heard of a number of couples now getting matching engagement bands.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2018, 12:13:06 AM »
If I ever get married again, I will ask for my car to be paid off over a nice ring : )


I don't really get the camp that says a woman should have no input on her engagement ring. It's like telling a guy you are buying  him a car, but he gets no input on what kind of car it is. Maybe it made sense way back when when the man was supposed to take a lead and propose. But nowadays I am assuming that the couple talked about many important things, including whether they want to get married, before the actual proposal. So asking her what kind of ring she likes is not ruining the surprise. Rather it should be the first in many mutual decisions and compromises they will need to discuss and work through, financial personal, etc.

The way it worked was like this. Two families were mingling their assets and investing them in the next generation-- that is to say, in the new couple. One of the first public expressions of the investment was to allow one half of the new couple to publicly put a token (but easily recognizable) portion of the family's wealth on the other. Before this happened, *lots* of conversations had to happen between the happy couple, their parents, and generally some lawyers and accountants.

I suppose it's outmoded, but old families that take old-familyness seriously are always at least 100 years behind the times.

Villanelle

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2018, 12:52:49 AM »
I wouldn't care if DH had proposed with a "recycled" stone.  I think it's a bit ridiculous to equate not wanting a ring that was the symbol of love and commitment between your partner and someone else is the same as claiming diamonds are "one use".

I have a vintage ring, purchased from an estate store, so clearly it is "used", but it was purchased for me, with me in mind, and to symbolize the relationship DH and I have.  That's a world away from "the last chick said no, so hopefully you'll accept it". 

If DH would have sold an old ring and used the money to buy a new one, fine.  If he'd used the same diamond, fine.  heck, if the gold had been melted and formed into a new ring, also fine.  But one hopes that a person picking out an item that most likely will be worn nearly every day for the rest of someone's life actually does it with her in mind, especially when that item is also a symbol of their relationship. I wanted a ring that DH picked out with me and our relationship in mind.  It's not some materialistic need for new or better or more expensive.    In general, regifts of emotional items are not a good idea, unless it is very intentional and the previous owner or life of the item is important.  (Using grandma's ring because Grandma was very special to the person and her marriage highly successful, for example.) 

YYK

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2018, 11:29:33 AM »
I don't really get the whole engagement ring thing to begin with in today's world.  Why an expensive gift for half of a couple?!?

Seems an odd start to forming a team.

I am unaware of when the practice of engagement rings, or engagement gifts in general, started. However, the idea of a *diamond* engagement ring was largely conjured from pure air by De Beers in the 1930s as a way of propping up the price of otherwise not very valuable, common gems:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/

Interesting that this article describes impending threats to the diamond cartel nearly 40 years ago. Apparently none of them bore fruit as clearly the diamond invention is going strong today.

Maenad

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2018, 08:17:38 AM »
Yes some have said it's outmoded. I have heard of a number of couples now getting matching engagement bands.

DH and I exchanged inexpensive rings almost 25 years ago when we got engaged. I wasn't going to be "marked off-limits" unless he was too. :-) 

Just Joe

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2018, 12:16:41 PM »
DW and I don't even wear our wedding rings. I recycled a family stone and bought a ring for it. Its beautiful. Neither of us are much into jewelry and DW worries about losing the stone somehow. I wouldn't want to lose it either but neither of us would lose any sleep over it.

partgypsy

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2018, 12:32:43 PM »
I don't really get the whole engagement ring thing to begin with in today's world.  Why an expensive gift for half of a couple?!?

Seems an odd start to forming a team.

I am unaware of when the practice of engagement rings, or engagement gifts in general, started. However, the idea of a *diamond* engagement ring was largely conjured from pure air by De Beers in the 1930s as a way of propping up the price of otherwise not very valuable, common gems:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/

Interesting that this article describes impending threats to the diamond cartel nearly 40 years ago. Apparently none of them bore fruit as clearly the diamond invention is going strong today.

People keep repeating the claim that Debeers "invented" the idea of a diamond engagement ring. That is not true. Debeers invested a lot in promoting that the only good or "real" engagement ring was a diamond ring, and more specifically how much money the man should spend on that ring (2 months salary) to increase revenues. They also promoted the idea that a "diamond is forever" to discourage resale of diamonds. However the idea of engagement rings with gemstones goes back for centuries, and wedding rings to antiquity. My grandmother and great grandmother both received diamond engagement rings and that was in the 30's, and late 1800s. The first and probably most famous diamond engagement ring was given in 1477  (Arch Duke Maximillian of Austria). Very few people had diamond rings, but that was because the only deposits were rather small and mined out (India, Brazil). Diamonds became more abundant and affordable after the Kimberly and other deposits were discovered (along with new mining techniques).

You may not approve of the practice of engagement rings, and no one HAS to follow that particular tradition, but Debeers did not invent the idea of the diamond engagement ring.   
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 12:40:19 PM by partgypsy »

Spiffsome

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2018, 09:35:30 PM »
When my husband proposed, we picked out a ring together that he paid for, then he asked the saleslady if they did a discount for cash. (He'd checked with me beforehand.) Her horrified facial expression was a thing to behold.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2018, 09:40:38 PM »
When my husband proposed, we picked out a ring together that he paid for, then he asked the saleslady if they did a discount for cash. (He'd checked with me beforehand.) Her horrified facial expression was a thing to behold.

I'd have paid to have seen that. It would be a good prank.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2018, 12:13:05 AM »
That woman must be getting a shit ton of hate mail. I wonder if they left her email address on the exhibits on purpose.

Rosy

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2018, 01:24:50 PM »
Ethically, why should a woman ever WANT to keep the engagement ring?

Ethically, it was a gift given to her?
Rationally, it is of value and to sell it?
Irrationally, because eff him.

Exactly, all of that!:) ... and ... to remind her to be more cautious - picky - smarter, in the future?

On re-cycling:)
Personally, I wouldn't want someone else's ring, unless it was a family heirloom, that I either loved as is or would have permission to have re-worked into a design I loved.

Call me greedy and non-mustachian if you like, but I don't get $25 rings unless you're in debt city or every penny counts, because you're working toward a specific goal. Even then, I would expect a really nice ring as soon as that situation is resolved.
In my opinion, the ring should be as nice as you can afford, without breaking the bank and without deliberately pushing for the cheapest option.

Seems the diamond stores push for three months of income as the price for the ring, I say one-month income is just fine. I think my only limitation would be - no payments, if you can't afford it outright - maybe you should wait until you can.

Rings are status symbols, (that's why sometimes rings are upgraded later), they don't just proclaim your marital status but reflect "your man's:)" financial standing to the world.

That woman must be getting a shit ton of hate mail. I wonder if they left her email address on the exhibits on purpose.

I was wondering how much of a spin this story had - there are always two sides to a story. He made sure she was publicly shamed and drug through the mud.

Tass

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2018, 02:10:50 PM »
Rings are status symbols, (that's why sometimes rings are upgraded later), they don't just proclaim your marital status but reflect "your man's:)" financial standing to the world.

This just makes me want an engagement ring even less. If "my man" wants to brag about his financial standing he can do it with his own jewelry.

I'm not engaged and not soon to become so, but whenever I get there I want an equal exchange of tokens, whatever the tokens may be. I'll wear a ring when I'm married. I don't need two. And I don't need an insurance policy on my marital prospects, which (as discussed above) was the original point of an engagement ring.

Not trying to criticize you, @Rosy, just sharing another opinion.

Rosy

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2018, 05:02:34 PM »
Naw, don't worry @Tass - I said that from the stance of a few decades of observation. It has been my observation that this is simply the case in certain circles.

The last really cool, impressive rock I saw was about fifteen years ago, $30K+. The young lady became engaged to a basketball player. It was really too big and pretentious to wear daily, but she was so excited she did for the rest of the semester at design school.
He could well afford it.
She was as hardworking as he was. AFAIK they build a great life and business together - a glam life on the outside, but where it counted very down to earth people.

In the end, it isn't about the ring, but it says a lot about a man how he approaches giving his chosen lady her first ring. Some men do not consult, they simply surprise and present. Others want to give their fiance the moon even if they cannot afford it and there are plenty of men and women who have their own widely varied concepts of what they want and expect.

We just did white gold wedding bands and a few years later I got a beautiful Art Deco diamond ring when his mom passed away. I'm not a diamond girl, but that one was special. It was lost in a fire. Sniff. 

MgoSam

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2018, 09:58:54 PM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.
 

So a guy should give up a valuable ring that he may legally have the rights to because otherwise he would be able to keep using the same ring to propose to women? Do you know many people that go around proposing to women? That seems to be a strange leap you are making in this case.

It happened to my sister. She was proposed to by her boyfriend with a ring, that he bought and had from a previous broken engagement. Sometimes recycling can go too far.

So reusing a ring once is too far??? Should your sister's boyfriend have tossed the ring in the ocean instead of re-using it? Should your sister's boyfriend's ex-fiance kept the ring after the failed engagement?

None of this sounds very Mustachian.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2018, 10:38:19 PM »
Yeah people are weird about rings. When you move in with your beau there's a good chance the bedroom has had other women sweating and moaning in it before you came into the picture, yet nobody asks for the bed and sheets to be thrown away. But for some reason a ring is single use?

maizeman

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2018, 06:20:57 AM »
Yeah people are weird about rings. When you move in with your beau there's a good chance the bedroom has had other women sweating and moaning in it before you came into the picture, yet nobody asks for the bed and sheets to be thrown away. But for some reason a ring is single use?

Do be fair, I'm pretty sure if you mentioned this, it would probably result in the sheets and mattress having to go. So maybe the problem is a question of semi-plausible deniability when it comes to engagement rings? They're relatively single purpose.

Maenad

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2018, 08:36:46 AM »
Rings are status symbols, (that's why sometimes rings are upgraded later), they don't just proclaim your marital status but reflect "your man's:)" financial standing to the world.

Anyone who judges my husband based on the ring on my finger can go pound sand.

And rings can definitely be status symbols, but think long and hard about who you're trying to impress with them. I try to impress people who behave admirably, and judging people based on the cost of jewelry isn't admirable.

PoutineLover

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2018, 08:43:14 AM »
I hate the concept of "upgrading" an engagement ring. That seems to take the whole meaning out of it. To me, it's not a status symbol, but a symbol of commitment. The size or cost of it is irrelevant to me (as long as it's not too expensive), but I'd want it to represent my style and be something I can wear every day. Anyone who says they would say no to a proposal if the ring wasn't big enough probably shouldn't be getting married to that person.

saguaro

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2018, 09:25:17 AM »
Anyone who judges my husband based on the ring on my finger can go pound sand.

I got a smallish split shank solitaire ring when I got engaged and many years later, I still love it.  I didn't care about the size, in fact I got many compliments on it, but I gave no s**ts about people who thought it was too small and therefore some reflection on my husband that he didn't give me something bigger.   I didn't want my husband to spend beyond his means, in fact, I told him I was OK without one or even just a gemstone ring but he really wanted to get me a diamond. 

My so-called "upgrade" was ten years later when I got an anniversary ring that was still small and cost less than the engagement ring.  I got it after I temporarily lost the diamond at work and found it....in my wastebasket.  After that I was so paranoid about losing the stone again, that I have it in the safety deposit box and I wear the anniversary ring.

MgoSam

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2018, 09:43:17 AM »

From what I remember (this happened a year or so ago and I didn't want to bring it it up as it might be a painful memory) it wasn't so much about the ring cost, though that was a factor, but how it seemed like everything had to be the nicest (re; expensive) and it really made him question how much she actually cared about him.
What I hear you saying is that the ring was the tipping point.  The ring was the moment he recognized the pattern and saw the light.

Yes exactly!

dandarc

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2018, 05:07:26 PM »
Anyone who judges my husband based on the ring on my finger can go pound sand.

I got a smallish split shank solitaire ring when I got engaged and many years later, I still love it.  I didn't care about the size, in fact I got many compliments on it, but I gave no s**ts about people who thought it was too small and therefore some reflection on my husband that he didn't give me something bigger.   I didn't want my husband to spend beyond his means, in fact, I told him I was OK without one or even just a gemstone ring but he really wanted to get me a diamond. 

My so-called "upgrade" was ten years later when I got an anniversary ring that was still small and cost less than the engagement ring.  I got it after I temporarily lost the diamond at work and found it....in my wastebasket.  After that I was so paranoid about losing the stone again, that I have it in the safety deposit box and I wear the anniversary ring.
Kinda hoping that happens for us - wife's replacement ring showed up a week or so ago. Maybe when we move it will find its way out of whatever corner it is hiding in.

mm1970

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2018, 05:21:19 PM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.
 

So a guy should give up a valuable ring that he may legally have the rights to because otherwise he would be able to keep using the same ring to propose to women? Do you know many people that go around proposing to women? That seems to be a strange leap you are making in this case.

It happened to my sister. She was proposed to by her boyfriend with a ring, that he bought and had from a previous broken engagement. Sometimes recycling can go too far.

So reusing a ring once is too far??? Should your sister's boyfriend have tossed the ring in the ocean instead of re-using it? Should your sister's boyfriend's ex-fiance kept the ring after the failed engagement?

None of this sounds very Mustachian.
I wouldn't want a recycled ring from a fiance, who most likely specifically picked it out for another woman - because he thought she'd like it.  Or he was thinking of her when he bought it.  Or she picked it out.  It's icky.

I wouldn't mind a recycled STONE, however.  Assuming the stone was an average size and generic (not massive, not a weird shape or anything, I'm not picky) - just put it in a different setting.

wbranch

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Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2018, 12:56:49 PM »
Who would want to hire a lawyer that got himself into this mess? Plenty of signs that he should have never bought a ring early on. Hard to feel bad for anyone involved.