Author Topic: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin  (Read 2661 times)


farfromfire

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 02:15:29 PM »
An article that addresses factual disadvantages faced by the younger generation, while giving some tips for self-improvement. Don't see the problem here.

Raenia

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2017, 02:29:05 PM »
The article isn't saying it's too hard to save, it's saying it is hard to save but you can do it, here's some tips.  Given that most of the tips are practical, and things we'd advice here to a newcomer (use Mint, contribute to 401k and ROTH IRA, etc), I don't see any problem here.  The article is encouraging saving!  If anything, I'd put it in "Mustachianism around the web."

caracarn

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2017, 02:31:23 PM »
Good points.  Title certainly is more of the downer/gloomy sort to garner attention.

Rubic

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 03:08:54 PM »
An article that addresses factual disadvantages faced by the younger generation, while giving some tips for self-improvement. Don't see the problem here.

Agreed.  I could work a summer job and it basically paid my full-time
college expenses (with some part-time work during the semesters)
at a state university.  Neither me nor my brother had any debt when we
graduated.  This option isn't available for most current college students.

SwordGuy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 08:52:28 PM »
I could work a summer job and it basically paid my full-time
college expenses (with some part-time work during the semesters)
at a state university.  Neither me nor my brother had any debt when we
graduated.  This option isn't available for most current college students.

$  7,143    Full time tuition and fees for a nearby state university in my area for a year
$- 2,880    40 hrs * 12 weeks summer * $6 take home pay
$- 4,200    20 hrs * 35 weeks non-summer * $6 take home pay
-----------
$       63    tuition and fees due.

$  8,640    Start working in 11th grade and work 16 hrs * 45 weeks * 2 years * $6 take home pay

Well, that would cover books, bus fare or a bicycle to school for 4 years of college.

No effort expended to get scholarships or financial aid.   No effort to get a better paying job.     

Live with parents.   Work.   If all of school isn't paid for, it's trivial to pay the rest with any sort of job.

A huge percentage of students live close enough to a state university that they could make this work if they had bothered to actually learn their k-12 school material in k-12 instead of waiting until they get to college to do that.
 
Now, if someone wants to go to a college that's not within daily commuting distance, but still within this state, then their expenses will be higher.   The first 2 years at a local college and the 2nd two at the remote college would cost about $23,000 with the room and meal plan for the final 2 years.  That's only 2/3rds the median cost of a new car - and I've never heard anyone whine about indentured servitude when they were posting about their brand new shiny car.

So, no, most students don't need to spend huge amounts of money to get a college degree.

So, how do students end up owing so much?

Well, they go to out of state colleges "for the experience", not because that particular college would actually provide a financial return on the additional $ investment.   That's a perfectly fine thing to do, but blaming "the system" because you decided on a long-term tourism stint in a remote location is out of line.

Or they don't bother to actually determine exactly and precisely what classes that they have to take in order to graduate with their degree, and then have to spend an extra semester or three in time and money to graduate.  It's written down in black and white and it's not particularly hard to figure that out assuming someone actually bothers to do so.

Or they change majors multiple times and take extra years to graduate.

Or they live in very fancy digs instead of the cheapest possible ones, finance a shiny new car with their loans, eat expensive meals out all the time instead of cheap meals, and drink like a fish.  That will inflate those living expenses pretty high for 4 to 6 years.

Or, even worse, they do all of the above and don't even bother to graduate.

So, no, I'm not buying the sob story.

 



Rubic

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 05:50:24 AM »
Hi SwordGuy.

Thanks for the post.  It appears students in your location could make
it work.

However if I compare apples-to-apples, my college experience with
that of my nieces and nephews, each of us going to the exact same
university
, we have much different results.

In your example, the students live at home.  My parents lived in rural
Tennessee.  I needed a car (used) and an apartment (with roommates).
In your example, the parents are subsidizing the student (room, board,
clothing, etc.) whereas I paid my own way.

However, even paying my own way, I had no problems paying for
my degree back then, and even had a little left over to buy an
occasional beer.  J.L. Collins, who's in my cohort, has pointed out
similarities with his college experience.  I think it's disingenuous to
argue that it's not more of a burden to obtain a college degree today
(without incurring debt) than it was in my generation. 

Possible? Certainly. Harder? Yes.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2015/07/29/chart-see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities

Gimesalot

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 11:18:09 AM »
$- 2,880    40 hrs * 12 weeks summer * $6 take home pay
$- 4,200    20 hrs * 35 weeks non-summer * $6 take home pay

$  8,640    Start working in 11th grade and work 16 hrs * 45 weeks * 2 years * $6 take home pay

I don't think that these jobs exist for HS kids any more... When I was 16, my friends and I worked at Macy's.  Most of the people that worked there were teenagers.  I also worked at Home Depot and a few other retail places.  Now, when I go to retail stores, I don't see 16-18 year olds working there.  I see adults.  In my area there are not very many retail jobs compared to the number of people who qualify for them.  Usually, it's the adults that get the jobs versus teenagers. 

For example, I saw some teen aged girls try to apply for a job at a fabric shop.  They were told that there was no way that they would be hired because they didn't have complete schedule availability (school during weekdays). 

Miss Piggy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 11:23:19 AM »
Now, when I go to retail stores, I don't see 16-18 year olds working there.  I see adults.  In my area there are not very many retail jobs compared to the number of people who qualify for them.  Usually, it's the adults that get the jobs versus teenagers. 

Could this be a chicken or egg thing? In some cases, is it that the teens aren't applying? I see plenty of teenagers and college students working at various places in my area. But many others have never applied for a job.

MgoSam

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 12:09:44 PM »
Now, when I go to retail stores, I don't see 16-18 year olds working there.  I see adults.  In my area there are not very many retail jobs compared to the number of people who qualify for them.  Usually, it's the adults that get the jobs versus teenagers. 

Could this be a chicken or egg thing? In some cases, is it that the teens aren't applying? I see plenty of teenagers and college students working at various places in my area. But many others have never applied for a job.

I've noticed the same thing. This is at Target, Dick's, Aldi's, Cub Foods (local grocery chain), most restaurants (servers and busboys), and fast food places. I've read that the majority of fast food workers are adults and not teenagers- shocked me when I heard that as I worked at a Burger King when I was in high school and it was over half fellow high schoolers working there.

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 12:34:28 PM »
Now, when I go to retail stores, I don't see 16-18 year olds working there.  I see adults.  In my area there are not very many retail jobs compared to the number of people who qualify for them.  Usually, it's the adults that get the jobs versus teenagers. 

Could this be a chicken or egg thing? In some cases, is it that the teens aren't applying? I see plenty of teenagers and college students working at various places in my area. But many others have never applied for a job.

I've noticed the same thing. This is at Target, Dick's, Aldi's, Cub Foods (local grocery chain), most restaurants (servers and busboys), and fast food places. I've read that the majority of fast food workers are adults and not teenagers- shocked me when I heard that as I worked at a Burger King when I was in high school and it was over half fellow high schoolers working there.

Newspaper delivery and babysitting are now considered adult jobs.
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MgoSam

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 01:18:39 PM »
Now, when I go to retail stores, I don't see 16-18 year olds working there.  I see adults.  In my area there are not very many retail jobs compared to the number of people who qualify for them.  Usually, it's the adults that get the jobs versus teenagers. 

Could this be a chicken or egg thing? In some cases, is it that the teens aren't applying? I see plenty of teenagers and college students working at various places in my area. But many others have never applied for a job.

I've noticed the same thing. This is at Target, Dick's, Aldi's, Cub Foods (local grocery chain), most restaurants (servers and busboys), and fast food places. I've read that the majority of fast food workers are adults and not teenagers- shocked me when I heard that as I worked at a Burger King when I was in high school and it was over half fellow high schoolers working there.

Newspaper delivery and babysitting are now considered adult jobs.

Yup, forgot that. Was out for a walk the other day before dawn and saw a lady in a minivan delivering newspapers door to door.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 01:52:01 PM »
I could work a summer job and it basically paid my full-time
college expenses (with some part-time work during the semesters)
at a state university.  Neither me nor my brother had any debt when we
graduated.  This option isn't available for most current college students.

$  7,143    Full time tuition and fees for a nearby state university in my area for a year
$- 2,880    40 hrs * 12 weeks summer * $6 take home pay
$- 4,200    20 hrs * 35 weeks non-summer * $6 take home pay
-----------
$       63    tuition and fees due.

$  8,640    Start working in 11th grade and work 16 hrs * 45 weeks * 2 years * $6 take home pay

Well, that would cover books, bus fare or a bicycle to school for 4 years of college.

No effort expended to get scholarships or financial aid.   No effort to get a better paying job.     

Live with parents.   Work.   If all of school isn't paid for, it's trivial to pay the rest with any sort of job.

A huge percentage of students live close enough to a state university that they could make this work if they had bothered to actually learn their k-12 school material in k-12 instead of waiting until they get to college to do that.
 
Now, if someone wants to go to a college that's not within daily commuting distance, but still within this state, then their expenses will be higher.   The first 2 years at a local college and the 2nd two at the remote college would cost about $23,000 with the room and meal plan for the final 2 years.  That's only 2/3rds the median cost of a new car - and I've never heard anyone whine about indentured servitude when they were posting about their brand new shiny car.

So, no, most students don't need to spend huge amounts of money to get a college degree.

So, how do students end up owing so much?

Well, they go to out of state colleges "for the experience", not because that particular college would actually provide a financial return on the additional $ investment.   That's a perfectly fine thing to do, but blaming "the system" because you decided on a long-term tourism stint in a remote location is out of line.

Or they don't bother to actually determine exactly and precisely what classes that they have to take in order to graduate with their degree, and then have to spend an extra semester or three in time and money to graduate.  It's written down in black and white and it's not particularly hard to figure that out assuming someone actually bothers to do so.

Or they change majors multiple times and take extra years to graduate.

Or they live in very fancy digs instead of the cheapest possible ones, finance a shiny new car with their loans, eat expensive meals out all the time instead of cheap meals, and drink like a fish.  That will inflate those living expenses pretty high for 4 to 6 years.

Or, even worse, they do all of the above and don't even bother to graduate.

So, no, I'm not buying the sob story.

I think you miss the "education gap" of recognizing the costs of college. I had this experience where my dad had no idea how much the cost went up and he worked a part time job that paid for tuition, room and board, and partying. He was very supportive in the way of go where you want, only work a little to focus on school, and enjoy your time in college. There was never the talk about finances. Now a lot of people in my generation made that mistake and the next generation is warned. Yes, I made the choice as a 18-yr adult and will continue to pay for it. That doesn't mean there weren't outside factors that need to be considered.

It's like smoking, people just weren't educated enough on not smoking until it was too late. Now people are like you were dumb enough to smoke?

SwordGuy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 01:52:15 PM »
I see teens working in my area.   Not as many as there used to be, though.

I don't know cause and effect here, but I don't see the push from parents to work anymore.  Quite the opposite.     I think it may be a status thing for the parents.   Or misplaced parental priorities.

Too many parents seem to think their job #1 is to raise happy children.   

I think job #1 is to raise children that turn into capable adults who are self-supporting and worth knowing as human beings.

BDWW

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2017, 02:11:36 PM »
I see teens working in my area.   Not as many as there used to be, though.

I don't know cause and effect here, but I don't see the push from parents to work anymore.  Quite the opposite.     I think it may be a status thing for the parents.   Or misplaced parental priorities.

Too many parents seem to think their job #1 is to raise happy children.   

I think job #1 is to raise children that turn into capable adults who are self-supporting and worth knowing as human beings.

I think you might be on to something. I've noticed a bit of a cultural divide between affluent areas and others. I live in a blue-collar town outside of a bigger granola town. The difference in attitudes of fast food employees is noticeable. In my town, there are young kids working behind the counter that seem more ... grateful? for the job. They actually seem to work harder and have better customer service. In the bigger city(not that big), the kids that are behind the counter seem more entitled(not explicit eye-rolling, but you pick up a strong "I don't want to be here vibe"), and customer service is worse.

Of course all this is anecdotal, but I wonder if the kids of the more affluent parents don't have the work ethic instilled.

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2017, 04:09:57 PM »
I see teens working in my area.   Not as many as there used to be, though.

I don't know cause and effect here, but I don't see the push from parents to work anymore.  Quite the opposite.     I think it may be a status thing for the parents.   Or misplaced parental priorities.

Too many parents seem to think their job #1 is to raise happy children.   

I think job #1 is to raise children that turn into capable adults who are self-supporting and worth knowing as human beings.

I think you might be on to something. I've noticed a bit of a cultural divide between affluent areas and others. I live in a blue-collar town outside of a bigger granola town. The difference in attitudes of fast food employees is noticeable. In my town, there are young kids working behind the counter that seem more ... grateful? for the job. They actually seem to work harder and have better customer service. In the bigger city(not that big), the kids that are behind the counter seem more entitled(not explicit eye-rolling, but you pick up a strong "I don't want to be here vibe"), and customer service is worse.

Of course all this is anecdotal, but I wonder if the kids of the more affluent parents don't have the work ethic instilled.

It might depend on what they were exposed to and think is "normal". My daughter went through a bit of a phase where she genuinely believed retail, food related, and service jobs were beneath her. She outgrew the attitude, but not until she started applying for jobs and realized just how unqualified she was.
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Ze Stash

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2017, 06:23:24 PM »
I see teens working in my area.   Not as many as there used to be, though.

I don't know cause and effect here, but I don't see the push from parents to work anymore.  Quite the opposite.     I think it may be a status thing for the parents.   Or misplaced parental priorities.

Too many parents seem to think their job #1 is to raise happy children.   

I think job #1 is to raise children that turn into capable adults who are self-supporting and worth knowing as human beings.

I think this is a big factor. When I was a teenager I approached my parents a few times about getting a part time job next to school to be able to make some extra money. Apart from tutoring and some tennis coaching they did not support the idea and told me to concentrate on school. The same applied to while I was in university. They covered everything so I was happy and only relatively late into university realized that this was not actually an advantage that I had over the others who did have part time jobs but a disadvantage. They had already established valuable industry contacts and were used to applying for jobs and general office culture which helped them in becoming self-supporting adults.

I am very grateful that my parents were able to support me through university and they happily did so. But when I get kids I am going to encourage them to get jobs as early as possible, even if it will not be necessary financially.

SwordGuy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2017, 07:26:41 PM »
I think you miss the "education gap" of recognizing the costs of college. I had this experience where my dad had no idea how much the cost went up and he worked a part time job that paid for tuition, room and board, and partying.

Education gap of recognizing the costs of college?  You mean like reading?

Here's a link to the tuition and fees page at a nearby state university.  These kind of sheets are quite common and easy to find.  http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/financial_serv/customcf/fees_undergraduate_incoming_resident_cohort_FXT1718f&s.pdf



Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if one borrows money one is supposed to pay it back.   
Ditto for figuring out that the more one borrows the more one have to pay back and therefore the harder it will be.   Choices have consequences and these should be considered quite obvious.

I'll give a pass on not understanding how powerful compound interest is when it's working against one.

But since most adult Americans owe a ton of money and know how hard it is to pay down that debt, it shouldn't be considered something outside parental experience, either.

MrsPete

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2017, 07:41:56 PM »
Possible? Certainly. Harder? Yes.
Hey, paying my own way through college was in no way easy in the 80s.  I agree that it's still no picnic, but today's students do have some positives on their side:

- Greater availability of AP classes online (I was limited to the few taught in my small, rural high school), which -- for a strong student -- can provide a big leg-up on classes
- Greater availability of online college classes (both my children have taken multiple online classes), which can provide flexibility for students who want to schedule their on-campus classes for only a few days a week ... this makes living farther from the university a little more possible
- More options for purchasing (or renting) textbooks inexpensively ... for me, the bookstore was the only game in town, and I worried every semester how I would afford books

Yes, tuition has gone up, but a student who seeks out options -- community college then a state school, National Guard, frugal living choices, and many more -- can still manage to graduate without debt, even if Mom and Dad aren't helping.

I totally agree it's not easy, but it never was. 
 

Rubic

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2017, 10:12:17 AM »
Possible? Certainly. Harder? Yes.

Yes, tuition has gone up, but a student who seeks out options -- community college then a state school, National Guard, frugal living choices, and many more -- can still manage to graduate without debt, even if Mom and Dad aren't helping.

I totally agree it's not easy, but it never was.

Tuition has not merely gone up, it has skyrocketed way past the inflation rate,
even surpassing the increase in medical costs:



Quote
Hey, paying my own way through college was in no way easy in the 80s.

Now imagine if your tuition costs had been 4x higher.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 10:16:33 AM by Rubic »

poetdereves

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2017, 03:28:23 PM »
It all comes down to priorities just like most everything else. I'm not that far out of high school or college compared to a majority of people on this forum, but a lot of the same principles still apply. I chose a good school with modest costs, got zero scholarships and only a little bit in grants from the government, no parental help, etc. I worked from 16 all the way through college as many hours as possible. Full time when I was managing my time well and part time when I wanted to buckle down in school or party with my friends. I had a social life, found a lady, had fun weekend beach trips, rented an apartment, and still graduated with no debt. I chose what mattered to me.

I have friends who got the same degree, worked less, financed cars on part time wages due to lax rules from lenders and high interest rates, used student loans for apartments, guitars, dates, parties, trips home (out of state) for summers and christmas, etc. their choices added up to over $75k for a $40k Bachelor of the Arts degree. They chose what mattered to them.

Yes, college is  still 3-4x the cost for us than it was for our parents, and yes, wages are still low for college kids. The reality for a majority of college students (middle class, no kids, no disabilities, etc,) is that they don't do the math and weigh their options. My parents are no good with money and no one gave me some secret financial knowledge. I saw the options in front of me, figured out what was important, and cut out what was unnecessary or not of value.

SwordGuy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2017, 05:22:41 PM »
Yes, college costs have gone up faster than inflation. 

Part of it is because college students want fancier dorms and facilities and colleges compete to provide them, spending lots of money to do so.

But let's compare other costs.   Avg new car price in 1976 was $3542.   Median new car price in 2016 was $33,560.   Fast-forward that 1976 price into today's dollars and you'll get $15,594.   Wow, cars are twice as expensive today! 

Of course, you can get a perfectly fine new car for less than $14,000 if you're willing to do so.  But that would mean "sacrificing".  (Snort.)  Of course, one could have bought a less expensive car back then, too, and a lot of us did.  My wife, a college professor, has observed that the student cars at her university look much newer and fancier than the cars the professors drive, so I'm thinking maybe there's not a lot of self-sacrifice going on this front, either...

And, of course, for a nominal fee you can have 24x7 free access to much of the world's knowledge instead of having to limit your research time to when the college library is open.   You can get a smart phone for less than the inflation-adjusted cost of a simple calculator in 1976.   A personal computer with a word processor was just a dream for most of us back then, now it's dirt cheap, comparable to the price of small typewriter then.   Talk about a productivity gain for studying and doing school work!   Gee, that should mean that today's students would have even MORE time available for working to pay for school... :)


caracarn

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 06:44:47 AM »
Yes @rubic and @poetderves costs have gone up and it is more difficult, but as @swordguy points out, it's not as difficult as a straight view of the cost increase.  When I went to school and paid my way through minimum wage was $3.35 in the late 80s.  Not it's more than double that for the jobs a college student would get.  My two daughters as seniors in high school this year are making $10/hour at their fast food jobs, so their earning power had increased 3x in that same period that costs went up 4.5x.  So no doubt it's harder, but it's not 4 times harder, it's maybe 50% harder. 

Related to this, some of the earlier posts about teen jobs were similar to what I see.  Not sure if it is fueled by parents, but less teens work now.  One of our DD is looking to change jobs and while many retail and fast food places are hiring, she has applied at three and only gotten one interview with a year experience already working at McDonald's.  And that job offer would pay her less than she makes now, but she's getting taken advantage of at her current employer and a bit sick of it so wants a change (we've talked with her about it and support her decision to move on).  So I do see a bit of both; lack of wanting to work (not sure if self-fueled or driven my parents setting the example) and lack of employers wanting to hire them.  I am surprised by how many places like Olive Garden, Target and Staples that will only hire if over 18.  This has eliminated a segment of jobs that were available in the 80s for 16 year olds wanting to work.

MrsPete

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »
Possible? Certainly. Harder? Yes.

Yes, tuition has gone up, but a student who seeks out options -- community college then a state school, National Guard, frugal living choices, and many more -- can still manage to graduate without debt, even if Mom and Dad aren't helping.

I totally agree it's not easy, but it never was.

Tuition has not merely gone up, it has skyrocketed way past the inflation rate,
even surpassing the increase in medical costs:



Quote
Hey, paying my own way through college was in no way easy in the 80s.

Now imagine if your tuition costs had been 4x higher.
Did you note at all the items I listed that have improved for college students in recent years?  Yeah, paying your own way through college is tough today, but it was never easy.  While tuition has gone up, it's not the whole story. 

Yes, college is  still 3-4x the cost for us than it was for our parents, and yes, wages are still low for college kids. The reality for a majority of college students (middle class, no kids, no disabilities, etc,) is that they don't do the math and weigh their options. My parents are no good with money and no one gave me some secret financial knowledge. I saw the options in front of me, figured out what was important, and cut out what was unnecessary or not of value.
I do agree that most college students just don't do the math and consider all their options.  Sure, people did that when I was in college too, but it's more common these days -- I think, in part, because so many people fall for the "follow your passion" line.  Also, when I was in college, most of my friends had a serious fear of borrowing -- that has disappeared today. 

Part of it is because college students want fancier dorms and facilities and colleges compete to provide them, spending lots of money to do so.
Yes, I recently learned that the dorms I lived in (happily) with a roommate have now become all "singles" because students today expect more space.  And it seems that more students own cars today; lack of parking is forcing the university to consider selling parking stickers only to sophomores + older. 

doggyfizzle

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2017, 09:56:51 PM »
Yes, college costs have gone up faster than inflation. 

Part of it is because college students want fancier dorms and facilities and colleges compete to provide them, spending lots of money to do so.

Actually, I believe (and will try and find the source to this in my absurd PDF library) the majority of the increase in state college costs has been due to a dramatic increase in support (Administrative) staff on college campuses and a dramatic decline in public support (state funding) compared to previous generations.  Sure unnecessary cap ex has played a role, but not nearly to the extent as the ramp-up in non-educational staffing and decreased taxpayer funds.

farfromfire

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 11:19:33 PM »
Yes, college costs have gone up faster than inflation. 

Part of it is because college students want fancier dorms and facilities and colleges compete to provide them, spending lots of money to do so.

Actually, I believe (and will try and find the source to this in my absurd PDF library) the majority of the increase in state college costs has been due to a dramatic increase in support (Administrative) staff on college campuses and a dramatic decline in public support (state funding) compared to previous generations.  Sure unnecessary cap ex has played a role, but not nearly to the extent as the ramp-up in non-educational staffing and decreased taxpayer funds.

Fancy Dorms Arenít The Main Reason Tuition Is Skyrocketing (538)

SwordGuy

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Re: It's just too hard to save --accompanied by a tiny violin
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 07:35:18 AM »
Yes, college costs have gone up faster than inflation. 

Part of it is because college students want fancier dorms and facilities and colleges compete to provide them, spending lots of money to do so.

Actually, I believe (and will try and find the source to this in my absurd PDF library) the majority of the increase in state college costs has been due to a dramatic increase in support (Administrative) staff on college campuses and a dramatic decline in public support (state funding) compared to previous generations.  Sure unnecessary cap ex has played a role, but not nearly to the extent as the ramp-up in non-educational staffing and decreased taxpayer funds.

Fancy Dorms Arenít The Main Reason Tuition Is Skyrocketing (538)

Agreed.  Fancy dorms are NOT the reason Tuition costs are rising.

Fancy dorms are the reason that Room and Board costs are rising.

Tuition is affordable at state universities for state residents.   It's the room and board costs that double the overall costs to attend a remote location college.