Author Topic: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?  (Read 7900 times)

Chris22

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2020, 10:52:26 AM »
An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.

Umm . . .  I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.

I bought a cheap bike off Craigslist from a guy that happened to be a GM/Chevy service writer. We got to talking about trucks (he had a monstercab brodozer) and I asked him about Chevy trucks, as I was considering one. He said that under no circumstances should I buy a diesel unless I was logging a ton of miles. With the filter changes and required fluids, he said a major service easily ran $1500 on the diesels since you had to use GM's filters and fluids. I forget what injector changes cost but he said replacement was fairly common. He had a lot of pissed off customers.

I ran into this when I went to service my Colorado. My guy would not do the oil change unless I used GM oil. GM is really asshole-ish about their oil spec. (reason one million why I will never own another GM)

I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.

Have to compare apples:apples. Yes, truck parts are not cheaper than $25k domestic sedan parts. But a $40-50k truck versus a $40-50k German car, the (gas) truck is absolutely cheaper to fix, and the depreciation will be a lot lower.

Diesel is a whole nother ballgame, yes, but in the flip side if you need a diesel truck you need a diesel truck; there really is no substitute.  But again, resale on diesel trucks is unbelievable, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear total ownership costs pencil out over a certain lifespan (which for diesels tends to be a long long time). 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 10:59:19 AM by Chris22 »

PDXTabs

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2020, 11:00:28 AM »
An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.

FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.

That math doesn’t work. Even at 0% down and 10% sales tax you’re talking about a payment of $750, not $844.

Right you are! I read this too quick and used the wrong number for $/k financed. I get $681/mo with the correct math and no sales tax.

MilesTeg

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2020, 01:04:49 PM »
An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo $681/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.

FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.

$70k trucks exist, but let's not pretend that's what common trucks you see on the road were purchased for.

The F-150 XLT is by far the most common ford truck sold and sells for 30-40k sticker (so as low as in the mid to high 20s unless you just pay sticker).

For trucks, a 'single product' generally encompasses all segments from economy/work clear through luxury unlike sedans and other vehicles where makers almost always have different products for those different markets. Instead of different badges they just have a gazillion trim levels.

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2020, 04:27:34 PM »
Umm . . .  I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.

It depends on the diesel.  But parts are typically going to be an awful lot more expensive for trucks.  Last time I had to get a major set of parts for my truck (1997 F350 CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke), the parts guy basically apologized for the cost.  I was putting in a hotter thermostat and a rerouted upper coolant hose so I can replace the serpentine belt without having to pull a coolant line, and after snapping a bolt or two, decided to just do the rest of the front end - water pump, lower radiator hose, etc.  While I'm in there and had coolant drained, there wasn't a lot of extra effort required to do the other stuff.  But the parts were definitely not cheap... on the other hand, I did the work myself, so the labor certainly was.  Coworkers thought I was an unhinged lunatic for spending a perfectly good Saturday working on a truck, I thought they were nuts for suggesting I spend $1000 to pay someone else to do a reasonably simple bit of maintenance.

But the truck tax is real.  And that's before you look at tires.  I've got a set of 19.5s (came with the truck), and a set of tires is up in the $2k range (19.5 wheels are the "commercial truck" tire size, commonly found on box vans, motor homes, etc).  On the other hand, the tires were "eeeh, could use replacement sometime in the next year or two..." when I got the truck about 6 years ago, and are still about the same.  I just don't put many miles on.

I'm not going to defend the "truck lifestyle," because I'm not part of it.  But I will entirely defend owning a truck if you live outside of town.  Just do most of your own maintenance.

MilesTeg

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2020, 05:10:02 PM »
Umm . . .  I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.

It depends on the diesel.  But parts are typically going to be an awful lot more expensive for trucks.  Last time I had to get a major set of parts for my truck (1997 F350 CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke), the parts guy basically apologized for the cost.  I was putting in a hotter thermostat and a rerouted upper coolant hose so I can replace the serpentine belt without having to pull a coolant line, and after snapping a bolt or two, decided to just do the rest of the front end - water pump, lower radiator hose, etc.  While I'm in there and had coolant drained, there wasn't a lot of extra effort required to do the other stuff.  But the parts were definitely not cheap... on the other hand, I did the work myself, so the labor certainly was.  Coworkers thought I was an unhinged lunatic for spending a perfectly good Saturday working on a truck, I thought they were nuts for suggesting I spend $1000 to pay someone else to do a reasonably simple bit of maintenance.

But the truck tax is real.  And that's before you look at tires.  I've got a set of 19.5s (came with the truck), and a set of tires is up in the $2k range (19.5 wheels are the "commercial truck" tire size, commonly found on box vans, motor homes, etc).  On the other hand, the tires were "eeeh, could use replacement sometime in the next year or two..." when I got the truck about 6 years ago, and are still about the same.  I just don't put many miles on.

I'm not going to defend the "truck lifestyle," because I'm not part of it.  But I will entirely defend owning a truck if you live outside of town.  Just do most of your own maintenance.

Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.

The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense. For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles. Most manufactures share a lot of parts between all their cars.

To be clear, I ain't defending the purchase of trucks when they aren't needed or claiming F-350s are only bought for legit needs, but you're not making a good comparison here for what the overwhelming number of "truck" people actually buy.

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2020, 08:51:05 PM »
Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.

30k lbs, yes.  "Several tons in the bed," apparently has to be pretty new, but the newer ones show nearly 8k of payload capacity in the bed, which certainly surprises me!

At least out here, I see an awful lot of "full ton class" trucks, but I'm also in a rural area, and an awful lot of 'em have trailers attached.  Which, certainly, argues for the commercial market.

Quote
The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense.

(a) They're not that rare, though I do lump any of the "Super Duties" (3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc) together.
(b) As near as I can tell, the parts aren't that expensive just because they can be, they're expensive because they're just massive.  My water pump is the size of a small scooter engine.  Same for radiator hoses, suspension parts, etc.  They're just big.

Quote
For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles.

I guess I see a different version of "truck lifestyle," perhaps?  I don't consider "I drive a stock F150" to be "truck lifestyle."  Out here, at least, that's a halfway reasonable vehicle, though most people I know with one also have a smaller car.  Nor would I consider a F150 to be a "monster truck" in the context of this thread.  The "truck lifestyle" stuff I refer to is the "I have an impractically lifted pickup with motorized steps that come down so I don't need a ladder, with stacks in the bed, not that a 7' high bed is practical anyway..." sort of stuff.  I've seen them, I think they're just as absurd as anyone else, and I can't wrap my head around how one has, in many cases, literally as much money as our house wrapped up in a truck that is objectively bad at being a truck.  At least the guys who slam their trucks have a low bed to work with!

I recognize that my truck is an expensive bit of transportation to run, I try to avoid taking it for things that the car could be used for, but it also allows us a rather efficient car in that we can cover everything else with the truck.

MilesTeg

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2020, 11:14:48 PM »
Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.

30k lbs, yes.  "Several tons in the bed," apparently has to be pretty new, but the newer ones show nearly 8k of payload capacity in the bed, which certainly surprises me!

At least out here, I see an awful lot of "full ton class" trucks, but I'm also in a rural area, and an awful lot of 'em have trailers attached.  Which, certainly, argues for the commercial market.

Quote
The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense.

(a) They're not that rare, though I do lump any of the "Super Duties" (3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc) together.
(b) As near as I can tell, the parts aren't that expensive just because they can be, they're expensive because they're just massive.  My water pump is the size of a small scooter engine.  Same for radiator hoses, suspension parts, etc.  They're just big.

Quote
For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles.

I guess I see a different version of "truck lifestyle," perhaps?  I don't consider "I drive a stock F150" to be "truck lifestyle."  Out here, at least, that's a halfway reasonable vehicle, though most people I know with one also have a smaller car.  Nor would I consider a F150 to be a "monster truck" in the context of this thread.  The "truck lifestyle" stuff I refer to is the "I have an impractically lifted pickup with motorized steps that come down so I don't need a ladder, with stacks in the bed, not that a 7' high bed is practical anyway..." sort of stuff.  I've seen them, I think they're just as absurd as anyone else, and I can't wrap my head around how one has, in many cases, literally as much money as our house wrapped up in a truck that is objectively bad at being a truck.  At least the guys who slam their trucks have a low bed to work with!

I recognize that my truck is an expensive bit of transportation to run, I try to avoid taking it for things that the car could be used for, but it also allows us a rather efficient car in that we can cover everything else with the truck.

I differentiate between "truck lifestyle" and "lifestyle where a truck is useful". The former is where people buy a truck simply to own a truck (or perhaps with dreams of needing a truck some day). Heck, I'm even pretty easy going about the line between the two (unlike most here). I only get annoyed by the trucks that never tow anything, never haul more than groceries, never leave the pavement, and are in fact less useful than alternatives for the owner. Frequently, but not always, these are bro-dozers or have thousands in ridiculous lifts (or lowers) or other things that, like you said, not only make it clear you don't use the truck as a truck but make it impossible (or very nearly so) to do so. Sometimes they are just a F-150 platinum used exclusively as a "luxury car" to commute to an office job.

By far the most popular trucks used this way are the 1/2 ton (F-150 and equivs). The larger trucks are much lower bang for the buck for what these people are after (image), but they certainly exist. But, rounding back to the original topic I came in on, those trucks aren't terribly more expensive than other cars to repair. They often use the same components as passenger vehicles, as only the "commercial" grade trucks typically have unique low volume parts like your mammoth diesel engine.

Anyway, you firmly fall in the "lifestyle where a truck is useful" category in case you were thinking I was arguing about you.

Just Joe

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2020, 03:28:15 PM »
I ran into this when I went to service my Colorado. My guy would not do the oil change unless I used GM oil. GM is really asshole-ish about their oil spec. (reason one million why I will never own another GM)

I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.

But once you are beyond the warranty period, use whatever oil and filter you choose as long as it meets the manufacturer's specs. The only time I've stuck with OEM fluids is with Honda auto transmission and AWD diff fluid.

And a reminder that life is different all around the country. We drove out mid-size family SUV into NYC on vacation. Our hotel provided parking. That SUV seemed huge in traffic there - although we same many more with New York tags. Street parking would have been an adventure. Around our part of the country it isn't big nor a chore to operate or park.

Same with overseas. When stationed in Italy anything bigger than an original Mini or Fiat 500 was kind of a pain. Friends who brought over North American spec compact cars were effectively driving mid-sized vehicles. Thirsty too. My Autobianchi had a 900cc motor. My later Beetle was a larger car with its 40 HP / 1200cc engine.

Regardless - if a person lands in dire straits because of whatever they are spending their money on, they need to optimize their choices. I'll be happy if the average size of vehicles shrinks again in the USA. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 03:38:02 PM by Just Joe »

Rollin

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2020, 04:46:23 PM »
I bought a 2016 Chevy Express 2500 van, 6.0 liter engine with 42,000 miles on it for $17,000 last year. I use it for towing equipment a couple of days a week and the occasional camping trip (tools removed and cot and gravel bike inserted). The rest of the time it is resting in the yard. The same year Tahoe or Silverado are going for close to $40,000. Diesels is even more and only get a little better mileage when towing (I get 20 mpg highway, and 14 around town towing 3500 pounds).

PDXTabs

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2020, 06:16:10 PM »
Same with overseas. When stationed in Italy anything bigger than an original Mini or Fiat 500 was kind of a pain. Friends who brought over North American spec compact cars were effectively driving mid-sized vehicles. Thirsty too. My Autobianchi had a 900cc motor. My later Beetle was a larger car with its 40 HP / 1200cc engine.

Regardless - if a person lands in dire straits because of whatever they are spending their money on, they need to optimize their choices. I'll be happy if the average size of vehicles shrinks again in the USA.

Yes on both counts. The Ford Focus is a popular car in Europe, but it isn't a compact.

joe189man

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2021, 11:10:19 AM »
This was me before i started learning about managing my money and finances/investments. i bought a 2002 dodge 2500 diesel back in 2007 for around $20k on a 5 year note, i got one because a friend had one and i thought (still think) they are awesome. Yet i never towed anything, had a 6 mile round trip commute and already had a paid off car that ran well. fast forward a year or so and it had the beginnings of a mechanical problem (vp44 pump going out) so i traded it in (resulting in negative equity) on a 2006 dodge 2500 diesel so i could haul my friends to the mountains for skiing. (face palm) Around that time Diesel fuel was nearly $5 a gallon, i remember driving home from the dealer and filling it up - over $125 to fill the tanks, the debit card had to stop the transaction because it was too much at the time.

that truck cost me ~$650 a month in payment, ~$150 a month in Insurance (young male), and $300 a month in fuel with all the driving i was doing to see a long distance GF and go skiing. That total of ~$1100 was about half of my monthly take home at the time. i shudder thinking about it now and other similarly bad decisions i made back then.

i ended up getting smarter when someone told me about dave ramsey, i traded in the truck on a mazda with negative equity, then stumbled into my current mazda while trying to trade down even further. I've had it for 10 years now, bought a left over brand new 2010 mazda 3 hatch in 2011 for $3k off sticker and 0%, no plans to sell it or upgrade any time soon.

i found MMM in 2017 and have slowly fixed our finances even more, we still make mistakes and some dumb choices but get better all the time.

there is some hope for the monster truck enthusiasts out there to see the error in their ways and find the light. it just takes a huge face punch moment.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:12:16 AM by joe189man »