Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 265765 times)

fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #800 on: November 21, 2016, 03:27:31 PM »
I saw something similar.  Fortunately there was a trust - unfortunately the good, youngest brother was the trustee for his brothers, who had learned nothing about money except that you got it by whining.  They were full of remarks like, "Dad was rich.  And you're saying this is all we get? (There had been estate taxes and back taxes, which the youngest brother had paid.)  You must be cheating us."  But, because of the way the trust was written, he could hand the trustee position over to the trust department of one of the big brokerages.  They set up a quarterly distribution.   They do not respond at all to whining.  You may be stuck if there is a will, but if there is a trust, perhaps some hope. 

If you want vengeance - just sayin' - go ahead, document the shit out of it even to hiring an audit, and give him his full share as a lump sum. 

Margie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #801 on: November 21, 2016, 05:10:40 PM »
I think you should consider visiting a lawyer just to see if your ex can actually not provide for minor children in his will.   I would think that separation agreements/divorce settlements would always include a clause that life insurance had to be paid so the children could be looked after?   I think it's horrid that anyone would leave minors out of it.
I do know that our will includes a stipulation that only "children of the marriage" are counted.  So, a random person couldn't come forward saying they were mine or my husband's baby after we died.
(we don't have any other children but our lawyer said to include the statement so we did)
Anyhow, I think it is very mean spirited to not want to help the minor children have access to their parent's estate to provide for them.
Maybe you can get a children's lawyer and legal aid will pay for it?  I am not sure entirely how that works but I have heard of cases where mom has a lawyer, dad has a lawyer and the children have one appointed by the courts so their interests are heard.
Good luck!
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Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #802 on: November 21, 2016, 11:46:10 PM »
I'm unfortunately facing inheritance drama myself. Thanks for reviving this thread so that when I can bring myself to discuss it and ask for your advice it will be easier to find. Sad to say that knowing this thread exists is currentlying a source of solace.
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LuxuryIsADrug

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #803 on: November 22, 2016, 02:12:43 AM »
My fathers step-dad passed away recently. The will that was found stated my father as the executor and he started carrying out his duties. A few weeks later a more recent will only had my grandpa's son (by blood) listed on the will. It took a few weeks to clear up but everything is civil.

The son allowed my father to continue being executor and the house will be split among the 3 step-children and the 1 blood relative.

The house was used by my fathers family and this was the first time anyone had met the blood relative so it's great it has worked out so smoothly.

JoeO

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #804 on: November 22, 2016, 06:23:18 AM »
Earlier this year I shared details about my situation. A basic detail... I am in Ontario, Canada.

I will recap here and add a few more points.  I am a bit desperate about coming to a decision without wasting another penny on unhelpful advice from lawyers.

1. July 2016 I found out that my former husband (divorced May 2014, property settlement finalized October 2014) died when our insurance company contacted me to release $40K on a $300K policy.  (Policy started a month before our beautiful daugher was born.)  I eventually found out that he died horribly (alcoholic's death, bleeding in the brain, etc.) in May 2016... which explains why he would not respond to my attempts to contact him.  (The children 12 and 14 years old, last saw their father in early April.)

2.  My EX's family refuses to respond to my enquiries about the location of his remains, if there was a will, etc.

3.  I post on this forum and also go to the courthouse looking for a will... for a record of someone applying to execute the will, etc. and I consult 3 different lawyers. 

4.  Finally I settle on a lawyer who seems reasonable, competent, etc.  A letter is sent out and my EX's brother finally coughs up a will, which is awful.  I see that my EX wrote the will a few months before we reached a settlement with the help of his slimey lawyer, who evidently asked his wife to witness my EX's will signing.  (Why not?  She benefitted financially too from my EX's crazy, bitter decision-making.) 

It tuns out my EX basically left everything to his brother (a very well off professional married to another well off professional with only one child, fully grown and with a computer science degree from a top notch school)... and 10% to each of his 2 children, if and only if they have a DNA test first to prove that they are his children.  However, it is 10% of nothing b/c my former BIL claims that my EX was destitute. Yet, I am 99.99% certain that he was named as the other beneficiary of the life insurance policy and a direct beneficiary on all other accounts with significant funds.

5.  My lawyer asks for my former BIL (through his lawyer) to give details about the life insurance policy and the registered retirement savings accounts my EX has (worth about $300K in late 2014).  He refuses and threatens me with legal costs if I proceed with a claim on behalf of my children for dependant's relief.

6.  Today my lawyer sends me an email hinting that I should not proceed because I (who will not benefit in any direct way from the claim) risk incurring significant legal costs.  (Unfortunately at 54, with the current labour market not good even if one has a grad degree... I don't have much of a financial future.  I currently work on contract at $15 (CDN) per hour.)

So do I let the "bad guys" win?  Incidentally, the former BIL stopped sending birthday cards to my children, the year I left his brother.  My EX's family somehow sees me as an evil woman who abandoned her poor husband in times of trouble... and somehow my children are tainted too.

Incidentally, my EX probably blew through $100 to $150K, as he fought to keep me from getting full custody and then any of the assets (acquired during our marriage).  I myself had $55K approx. in legal costs... that were not directly connected to prepping or making a court appearances.  (I kind of despise family lawyers.  They profit from so much misery.   If I hadn't fought for what I was legally entitle too, I'd have had next to nothing instead of approx. $150K.)

My children live in Canada... so they are not starving.  And there are programs to borrow money to go to college.  However....I am still tempted to risk paying my former BIL's fat cat lawyer... b/c it is so wrong and really, there MUST have been some significant assets.  But I don't have any proof.

Also, my kids have no one else, really... no aunts, uncles, grandparents, no cousins... just me.  One family friend, but now dead for another reason.

I loved my husband but I also feared him.  One of my biggest regrets is that he died not knowing how sad I was about having to leave him, for my sake and for our children's sake. 

Any advice?  I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum.  But it's where I began, reaching out for help.



Are there any accounts that might still list you as beneficiary? Beneficiary designation trumps the will. A financial institution will not pay out anything to the BIL if you are listed as beneficiary.

Sometimes after a divorce people forget to change beneficiaries and the money ends up going to an ex. Sometimes even there is a new spouse -- and the new spouse is out of luck.

I'm not positive about this but I believe you can approach financial institutions that you suspect might list you or your kids as beneficiaries on his accounts and ask. Probably best to have a copy of the death certificate. I believe the executor doesn't even have to know.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 06:40:07 AM by JoeO »

Bicycle_B

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #805 on: December 01, 2016, 09:38:47 AM »
Earlier this year I shared details about my situation. A basic detail... I am in Ontario, Canada.

I will recap here and add a few more points.  I am a bit desperate about coming to a decision without wasting another penny on unhelpful advice from lawyers.

1. July 2016 I found out that my former husband (divorced May 2014, property settlement finalized October 2014) died when our insurance company contacted me to release $40K on a $300K policy.  (Policy started a month before our beautiful daugher was born.)  I eventually found out that he died horribly (alcoholic's death, bleeding in the brain, etc.) in May 2016... which explains why he would not respond to my attempts to contact him.  (The children 12 and 14 years old, last saw their father in early April.)

2.  My EX's family refuses to respond to my enquiries about the location of his remains, if there was a will, etc.

3.  I post on this forum and also go to the courthouse looking for a will... for a record of someone applying to execute the will, etc. and I consult 3 different lawyers. 

4.  Finally I settle on a lawyer who seems reasonable, competent, etc.  A letter is sent out and my EX's brother finally coughs up a will, which is awful.  I see that my EX wrote the will a few months before we reached a settlement with the help of his slimey lawyer, who evidently asked his wife to witness my EX's will signing.  (Why not?  She benefitted financially too from my EX's crazy, bitter decision-making.) 

It tuns out my EX basically left everything to his brother (a very well off professional married to another well off professional with only one child, fully grown and with a computer science degree from a top notch school)... and 10% to each of his 2 children, if and only if they have a DNA test first to prove that they are his children.  However, it is 10% of nothing b/c my former BIL claims that my EX was destitute. Yet, I am 99.99% certain that he was named as the other beneficiary of the life insurance policy and a direct beneficiary on all other accounts with significant funds.

5.  My lawyer asks for my former BIL (through his lawyer) to give details about the life insurance policy and the registered retirement savings accounts my EX has (worth about $300K in late 2014).  He refuses and threatens me with legal costs if I proceed with a claim on behalf of my children for dependant's relief.

6.  Today my lawyer sends me an email hinting that I should not proceed because I (who will not benefit in any direct way from the claim) risk incurring significant legal costs.  (Unfortunately at 54, with the current labour market not good even if one has a grad degree... I don't have much of a financial future.  I currently work on contract at $15 (CDN) per hour.)

So do I let the "bad guys" win?  Incidentally, the former BIL stopped sending birthday cards to my children, the year I left his brother.  My EX's family somehow sees me as an evil woman who abandoned her poor husband in times of trouble... and somehow my children are tainted too.

Incidentally, my EX probably blew through $100 to $150K, as he fought to keep me from getting full custody and then any of the assets (acquired during our marriage).  I myself had $55K approx. in legal costs... that were not directly connected to prepping or making a court appearances.  (I kind of despise family lawyers.  They profit from so much misery.   If I hadn't fought for what I was legally entitle too, I'd have had next to nothing instead of approx. $150K.)

My children live in Canada... so they are not starving.  And there are programs to borrow money to go to college.  However....I am still tempted to risk paying my former BIL's fat cat lawyer... b/c it is so wrong and really, there MUST have been some significant assets.  But I don't have any proof.

Also, my kids have no one else, really... no aunts, uncles, grandparents, no cousins... just me.  One family friend, but now dead for another reason.

I loved my husband but I also feared him.  One of my biggest regrets is that he died not knowing how sad I was about having to leave him, for my sake and for our children's sake. 

Any advice?  I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum.  But it's where I began, reaching out for help.



Are there any accounts that might still list you as beneficiary? Beneficiary designation trumps the will. A financial institution will not pay out anything to the BIL if you are listed as beneficiary.

Sometimes after a divorce people forget to change beneficiaries and the money ends up going to an ex. Sometimes even there is a new spouse -- and the new spouse is out of luck.

I'm not positive about this but I believe you can approach financial institutions that you suspect might list you or your kids as beneficiaries on his accounts and ask. Probably best to have a copy of the death certificate. I believe the executor doesn't even have to know.




The bolded part is true in USA too.  I don't know Canadian law but the roots of US law are in English common law from centuries ago - the overall situation for you might be exactly the same as mine.  If it is, here's why you should consider leaving the lawyers alone and just try JoeO's suggestion (note that I am not a lawyer or giving legal advice, just summarizing what I learned from my own inheritance adventures):

1. From an inheritance law standpoint, it's often legal for most of the assets NOT to be part of the estate and NOT to be in the will.  Generally the will determines disposal of assets that were not in "beneficiary accounts" - but if all of the money was transferred to accounts that name beneficiaries, such as bank accounts and mutual fund accounts, the money doesn't become part of the estate, doesn't come under the directions of the will; the money or stocks or whatever just go directly to the named beneficiary based on presentation of the birth certificate.  So JoeO's advice appears spot on.

2. If you have any right to the money, it would be (I speculate here) on the basis that your ex evaded the law regarding fair division of marital assets.  But you would have to prove that (difficult considering the chief witness is dead), then retrieve assets from accounts that probably have clear instructions that would have emptied the accounts by now (good luck collecting, even if you win).  The lawyers will charge you regardless.

I wouldn't give your valuable energy and emotional life to the schemes of a dead man.  Find peace where you can and move on.  If his remaining living family are trying to defraud you, maybe that is the price of keeping them out of your children's life.  Could be cheap at the price, eh?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:41:05 AM by Bicycle_B »

babybug

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #806 on: December 05, 2016, 09:13:34 AM »
JoeO, just accept the $40k from the insurance and call it a day. Save the money for your children's future. 

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Greenway52

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #807 on: December 10, 2016, 08:38:04 PM »
Ok. Story time. My inheritance drama comes from my motherís side. It also takes place in a different country, so I donít always have all of the details. Itís also still ongoing, so if there is interest I can keep posting as new developments happen.

Background: My maternal grandparents were well-off people in my country. My grandfather is a well known scholar in the country and my grandmother while a homemaker, herself came from a wealthy family. They had five children, all daughters. My mother is the second daughter and lives in Canada. The oldest daughter and the fourth daughter still lives in the same country in my grandparentís house, while the third daughter and the fifth (and youngest) daughter immigrated to England.

My grandfather died in 1997 and my grandmother then passed away a couple of years ago. Since then, oh boy, it has been non-stop inheritance drama. While my grandfather has a bunch of property and a bunch of farmland, and my grandmother has some jewelry, the bulk of their estate is the main house that the oldest daughter and the fourth daughter lives in. I would hazard to guess that the house represents about 90% of their estate. The house is three stories and the second and third stories are split into 2 units each (so 4 units). How it was intended to be split up is that the ground floor would go to the youngest daughter, and 4 units in the second and third floors would go to the other 4 daughters (i.e. each daughter gets 1 unit). While the house is old and is in pretty bad shape, the real value comes from the land, which is in a central place in the capital city. The land itself would be worth about $1.5M when converted to Canadian dollars.

My mom and the third daughter who lives in England donít really care for any of the inheritance. The third daughter is quite wealthy and so doesnít really care for the money. My mom, would like the money, but doesnít want to get involved in all of the inheritance drama as itís a pretty toxic environment and my mom isnít the confrontational type. Plus sheís not in very good health, and sheís not the same country as the property, so any kind of legal work would be more difficult.

The eldest daughter is a spendaholic and have been spoilt my grandparents. She worked as a judge and lost her job because of her all her debt (I can post many more stories about her in the Anti-Mustachian Relatives section). Sheís also not in very good health. She doesnít really care about getting the inheritance, as she cares more about just being able to live in the house and feed her spending habit. Since my grandmother died, she has started selling items in the household to fuel her spending addiction. She recently sold this grand cabinet that was in my grandmotherís room that my grandmother got from her mother. The first daughter sold it off for pennies on the dollar (literally for about 5% of its value), so that she can fuel her spending for a week or so. Iím sure sheís selling more stuff, but I donít get to hear since Iím in Canada.

So the real fight for the inheritance comes between the fourth daughter and the fifth daughter. As mentioned the fifth daughter lives in England, so doesnít get to see the house often. The fourth daughter has essentially taken over the ground floor which was supposed to go to the fifth daughter and has made significant structural changes. My grandfather didnít have a will that specified his wishes, so all daughters have 1/5 th right to the property.

The youngest daughter recently went back home and visited the house to see all of the changes made to her section (she didnít know about it beforehand; the changes were done to her section without her knowledge). The youngest daughter stated that she either wants the ground floor as she was promised, or if the fourth daughter wants to use the ground floor, the fourth daughter will have to buy out the youngest daughterís portion (quite fair in my opinion). The problem is the fourth daughter doesnít have the money to buy her out, but she also doesnít want to give access to the youngest daughter to the ground floor.

So the youngest daughter is now considering legal actions. Making matters more complicated, when the fourth daughter made those structural changes to the house, it was most likely done without the proper city permits. And the fourth daughter took a loan to pay for it (and is still paying the loan). If there is a lawsuit, the illegal construction might be found out, and she will have to tear them out.

Right now there is a bunch of vicious emails flying between the daughters in which all daughters are CCed in as the youngest daughter is threatening a lawsuit and the fourth daughter wants to prevent one as she has the most to lose.

I get it that inheritances have huge financial consequences. But as an outside observer, I canít help thinking that theyíre fighting over things that they didnít even work for. These are wealth their parents have built over their lifetime. I just find it weird that their parent have died and instead of trying to get along, theyíre all fighting to get a bigger piece of the pie that their parentís built.

Iíve told my parents, I donít really care if I get any inheritance from them. If they want to leave something for me, make sure to put it in their will, but thereís no obligation to leave anything to me. My FI plans assume receiving nothing from my parents.

The drama is still ongoing. If there is interest, I can post updates as they happen.

mtn

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #808 on: December 12, 2016, 08:12:28 AM »
Reading these *really* makes me hope that my inlaws do leave any real estate to my wife and BIL. Otherwise my BIL would just end up living in the house. I'm sure of it. My FIL mentioned that he was going to leave the house to my wife and BIL, and I told him that is a bad idea--he needed to get rid of the house altogether. It is a lot easier to split up money than it is to split up property, which is something he never realized since his only brother died at 21 and FIL had basically no relatives left when his mother passed.

Thank god they already decided to sell their vacation home that they own with 3 of my MIL's siblings and her mother. That would have been a shit show.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #809 on: December 12, 2016, 10:41:30 AM »
This thread has made me very sure that if anyone ever leaves me anything other then money jointly, if we can't amicably work out what to do with it within six months, I will simply relinquish all claim to it. Not worth it.

firelight

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #810 on: December 12, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
This thread has made me very sure that if anyone ever leaves me anything other then money jointly, if we can't amicably work out what to do with it within six months, I will simply relinquish all claim to it. Not worth it.
We have an inheritance story brewing (old grand dad not ready to split property between kids (that was bequeathed to them by their grand parents), one of the kids (! In their late 60s) trying to cheat the other kid out of their share and younger generation from both sides trying to get the best part of the pie). The problem is compounded by the fact that the property in question is worth millions and some of the younger generation (kid trying to cheat and their progeny) are financially dependent on the cash flow from the property. And the kid being cheated and their progeny don't want to fight too hard but want the others to settle fairly.

I've got popcorn popping!!

Shelivesthedream, exactly my sentiments! But in the above story, it's harder to let go because of the value of the property (think a set of real estate and profitable buildings in Manhattan). Thankfully it's not my direct problem (will help my kids though) but also makes it harder because it brings up the question should I fight for my kids since they are < 3 years old and would feel later on that mom should've fought for what was given to us. Makes the decision to let go harder when it's not your own stake.

Our FIRE plans are independent of this shitstorm since we firmly believe our FIRE shouldn't include any inheritance.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 12:28:31 PM by firelight »

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #811 on: December 13, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #812 on: December 13, 2016, 10:18:26 AM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?

dandarc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #813 on: December 13, 2016, 10:33:51 AM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.
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LeRainDrop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #814 on: December 13, 2016, 07:31:50 PM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

An honest-to-goodness LOL from me!

gimp

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #815 on: December 13, 2016, 07:45:15 PM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

Story of my car enthusiast life.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #816 on: December 14, 2016, 10:03:50 AM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

Story of my car enthusiast life.

I happen to drive an orange Scion, dubbed "the Toaster" by one of my teammates, which I could actually dress up as the Kool-Aid man since it's about the right color.
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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #817 on: December 15, 2016, 01:43:39 AM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.
Story of my car enthusiast life.
I happen to drive an orange Scion, dubbed "the Toaster" by one of my teammates, which I could actually dress up as the Kool-Aid man since it's about the right color.

Please do this. Even with Photoshop.

zephyr911

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #818 on: December 15, 2016, 01:27:16 PM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.
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MgoSam

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #819 on: December 15, 2016, 01:39:51 PM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.

I'm perfectly willing to inherit my way to FIRE. I won't even losing any sleep about not "earning it," as the way I see it, I would be lucky to inherit the money but 99% of people would blow such a windfall.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #820 on: December 15, 2016, 03:41:33 PM »
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.

I'm 100% with you. "Appreciation" is about the person, not the money.

For example, I have two different families of cousins who paid their own ways through college, while my parents paid my tuition and my siblings'. My parents were told by their siblings(in-law) that they were spoiling us and we wouldn't appreciate it and we'd waste our time.

We kids are all now 25-35. Me and my siblings all graduated in 4 years and are in successful careers at least somewhat related to our fields of study. Of the seven cousins, two did some college but didn't graduate. Of the other five, only one got out in 4 years. And only one (not the same one who graduated on time) is doing a job requiring a college degree.

Looking back, I think my siblings and I are the way we are because our parents taught us good resource management. Those skills are what allowed them to pay our tuition in the first place, and we didn't need to pay our own ways to learn that lesson.

I don't think any of those aunts/uncles have the discipline to save for their children's education, so they weren't able to teach their kids resource management, so the kids can't manage their resources.

The boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's not your circumstances but what you're made of.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #821 on: December 15, 2016, 10:25:34 PM »
I might feel more pride in FIRE-ing without an inheritance (which is almost certainly what will happen, and what I hope does happen because we plan to be FIREd long before we can reasonably expect my parents to live).  But I don't think I'd enjoy it any less.  To me, FIRE is almost entirely about, well... being FIREd.  The means matters little.

Also, I know my parents want to leave us a large sum (they once told my DH they are hoping to leave both my sister and me seven figures).  They would be absolutely thrilled if that is what allowed us to FIRE and to live the kind of life we hope for in retirement.  It would give them great satisfaction.  So if that was what put us over the edge to FIRE, it would make me feel good knowing that their money did something that would have pleased them. 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #822 on: December 16, 2016, 03:23:03 AM »
Inheriting my parents little house, which I've rented out, gave me the opportunity to help my two children out with house deposits (I remortgaged and then paid it off within 18 months, all disposable income was tied up). The rent forms around 1/5th of our FIRE'd income and definitely let me go sooner. They'd be delighted - they both retired early. They weren't great with money - didn't spend a lot but were afraid to touch their small capital pot, so for example they took out a loan at 15% to pay for double glazing. I couldn't persuade them to 'borrow from themselves' and pay back their savings monthly.

It doesn't spoil my enjoyment one little bit :) As others have said, plenty folks inherit similar and blow it.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #823 on: December 16, 2016, 07:59:00 AM »
Explaining your FIRE status to a normal person is challenging. I see how the question of whether you inherited your stash would be part of that, and explaining that, yes, you did, might actually seem more normal than, "Actually, I was really focused for 16 years and saved 48% of every dollar I touched"

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #824 on: December 16, 2016, 08:05:24 AM »
Explaining your FIRE status to a normal person is challenging. I see how the question of whether you inherited your stash would be part of that, and explaining that, yes, you did, might actually seem more normal than, "Actually, I was really focused for 16 years and saved 48% of every dollar I touched"

I agree that more people would understand an inheritance rather than MMMing, but I'd be concerned that they'd think that I was totally minted rather than careful. Enter requests for cash, lawsuits, long-lost children appearing, etc. I'm all about the stealth.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #825 on: December 16, 2016, 08:18:44 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #826 on: December 16, 2016, 09:17:44 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #827 on: December 16, 2016, 09:22:33 AM »
I really need to read that book. Its on my list.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #828 on: December 16, 2016, 09:25:47 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #829 on: December 16, 2016, 09:30:42 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.
This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.
Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.

Yes! A much better example. Thanks TGS.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #830 on: December 16, 2016, 01:17:22 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #831 on: December 16, 2016, 01:57:30 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

Wow, that is brutal. Do you know these couples professionally or personally? I can't get over how many people rely on an inheritance, when it isn't their money and you never know how much care someone will need or how the older relatives choose to spend their money.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #832 on: December 16, 2016, 02:27:17 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

Wow, that is brutal. Do you know these couples professionally or personally? I can't get over how many people rely on an inheritance, when it isn't their money and you never know how much care someone will need or how the older relatives choose to spend their money.

My dad has been threatening for years to buy a ridiculously unmustachian boat. Hasn't happened yet, but I'd be happy for him if he does. That would put a big dent in my inheritance though.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #833 on: December 16, 2016, 02:38:36 PM »
to Playing with fire: I served as an expert witness in these cases.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #834 on: December 16, 2016, 02:58:20 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

My sister claims my dad said he'd take care of her with what she'd inherit.  (I'm skeptical.)  But 10 years of RMDs went by... and sis was a royal bitch (understatement) to dad and her own children.  It turns out her share was much less... and that dad pre-divided it between her and her children because he didn't think she would pass anything on to them.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #835 on: December 16, 2016, 03:03:05 PM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.
Gillian Anderson is in a  great film production of that book.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #836 on: December 16, 2016, 03:23:25 PM »
to Playing with fire: I served as an expert witness in these cases.

That sounds fascinating, and horrifying.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #837 on: December 17, 2016, 01:40:22 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

I don't really count on it (in the sense that when we look at our numbers and plans, we don't automatically add in dollar amount for a future inheritance), but it's very much in the back of my mind as an additional safety factor. And perhaps it makes me feel a bit better about pulling the trigger with a slightly tighter annual withdraw amount.   Knowing the details I do about my parents, I don't actually think I'd be misguided if I did somewhat count on it.  They have a positive cash flow, even in their 70s. (2 generous pensions, plus social security, plus a consulting gig dad continues to do because he finds it rewarding, and a few other things). They have great healthcare, and are fairly modest spenders.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where they'd blow through the roughly 2mm they are hoping to leave to my sibling and me.  And our family dynamics are incredibly healthy and stable, so someone getting disowned is so far-fetched that it's laughable.  And sibling and I have both been clearly told that we stand to inherit, and that $1mm per child figure was thrown out (though it was a goal at the time, and they weren't quite there yet as of several years ago when we we last discussed actual amounts). Maybe I'd only get $6-700k instead of $1mm.  But nothing or very little?  I don't see any realistic scenario where that would happen.

Again, I don't count on it, and I fully recognize their right to do whatever the heck they want with their money.  I truly wish they'd spend more.  It makes me crazy to be out with mom and have her comment on how pretty a sweater is, but then refuse to buy it.  (And we are talking $50 sweaters, not $500.)  And if they wanted to leave it all to cancer research of the local library or whatever, great.  But they very much *want* to leave us that money, and I don't see that suddenly changing. So while we don't really count on it, I think that as long as one is looking honestly at the situation and the people and factors involved, and has been told what is in the will (with specifics), I don't think it's foolhardy to assume that what one is told will happen will actually happen.  And even to plan accordingly.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #838 on: December 17, 2016, 07:25:50 AM »
My sister called. She's one of those adults in her 50's still being supported/bailed out regularly by our parents. She hasn't paid off the last money she borrowed from them (but still managed to make political donations this year). 

Her question: She has trouble paying her mortgage and due to bad credit has a high interest rate. Would it be okay with me if she had mom and dad pay off her mortgage and she would pay them back? Our parents are in their mid 70's, with health problems. With 20 years left on her current mortgage, there's zero chance she will actually pay it back to them.

What she eventually got to: Am I okay with her borrowing both her share and potentially my share of our inheritance? And do I have any problem with my parents setting me up to be her personal mortgage company after they pass away?

WTF. I'm right now processing vegetables I got from dumpster diving, while she goes out to eat on a regular basis and was eating lunches out at restaurants (not even take out) every day when she had a full time job, and I couldn't talk her out of that.

Ugh. I noped my way out of that conversation and told her I'm not involved in any financial dealings between her and our parents.

But I'm a little stunned that given their health issues (major surgeries this year), her thought is "Shit, the parent bank might not be around that much longer, how can I get my hands on as much as possible while it's still in their name?" and that she would think that asking to borrow potentially most of their savings when they are coming up on end of life care needs is in any way appropriate.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #839 on: December 17, 2016, 07:38:07 AM »
Sharing this one on behalf of my boss' wife, as it was told to me after a few beers - fake names used just to prevent any confusion since it all sounded a little too perfect to be true.

As a young man, Grandpa Al came to Australia with nothing but a suitcase and a dream. In that suitcase was a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius violin however, so he had that going for him. Skip forward a couple decades and Grandpa Al has become older and frailer and it's up to his youngest daughter Belle to look after him in his final years since everyone else has moved interstate.

When Grandpa Al finally passes most of the family hasn't spoken to him in months and despite having 5 children, only a few bother to show up to his funeral.

Now, what DOES get their attention is that stradivarius violin that he'd kept locked up tight. Probably worth millions, the rest of his estate consists of his humble abode, its contents and the land it sat on. Something like 100k all up and his will is a barebones matter saying that everything is to be split evenly between the 5 children.

Immediately, children who didn't bother to show up to the funeral are calling Belle and pestering her about the Violin which had been Grandpa Al's pride and joy but never specifically mentioned in the will or insured because he wasn't a banking sort of guy. Everyone insists they had been promised it verbally and within days Belle is being pestered by four different lawyers and urged to take her own due to the amount of money involved.

By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

Turns out it was a fake. Either Grandpa Al had been swindled back in his 20s or he had bought the thing more recently and just spun a very convincing tall tale without realising how much strife it would cause.

Long story short, most of the family still won't talk to each other and the fake violin is sitting in a dusty cupboard somewhere in Belle's new house.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #840 on: December 17, 2016, 07:56:31 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

I don't really count on it (in the sense that when we look at our numbers and plans, we don't automatically add in dollar amount for a future inheritance), but it's very much in the back of my mind as an additional safety factor. And perhaps it makes me feel a bit better about pulling the trigger with a slightly tighter annual withdraw amount.   Knowing the details I do about my parents, I don't actually think I'd be misguided if I did somewhat count on it.  They have a positive cash flow, even in their 70s. (2 generous pensions, plus social security, plus a consulting gig dad continues to do because he finds it rewarding, and a few other things). They have great healthcare, and are fairly modest spenders.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where they'd blow through the roughly 2mm they are hoping to leave to my sibling and me.  And our family dynamics are incredibly healthy and stable, so someone getting disowned is so far-fetched that it's laughable.  And sibling and I have both been clearly told that we stand to inherit, and that $1mm per child figure was thrown out (though it was a goal at the time, and they weren't quite there yet as of several years ago when we we last discussed actual amounts). Maybe I'd only get $6-700k instead of $1mm.  But nothing or very little?  I don't see any realistic scenario where that would happen.

Again, I don't count on it, and I fully recognize their right to do whatever the heck they want with their money.  I truly wish they'd spend more.  It makes me crazy to be out with mom and have her comment on how pretty a sweater is, but then refuse to buy it.  (And we are talking $50 sweaters, not $500.)  And if they wanted to leave it all to cancer research of the local library or whatever, great.  But they very much *want* to leave us that money, and I don't see that suddenly changing. So while we don't really count on it, I think that as long as one is looking honestly at the situation and the people and factors involved, and has been told what is in the will (with specifics), I don't think it's foolhardy to assume that what one is told will happen will actually happen.  And even to plan accordingly.

I think you are right. 70 year olds who are modest spenders dont suddenly start being consuma suckers. But an Alzheimer's Disease diagnosis could put one of them in a nirsing home which would eat into their assets. With each parent having a decent pensins and Social security, though, those jncome woild pay for half amd the other half would,have to come iut of their savings. figure $100,000 annually to start.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #841 on: December 17, 2016, 12:23:16 PM »
By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

This is so sad.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #842 on: December 17, 2016, 02:01:30 PM »
King Solomon was right: the violin should have been cut into five pieces. Would have saved everyone tens of thousands of dollars.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #843 on: December 18, 2016, 04:04:33 AM »
King Solomon was right: the violin should have been cut into five pieces. Would have saved everyone tens of thousands of dollars.

Or at least appraised...
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #844 on: December 18, 2016, 05:41:50 AM »
Ugh. I noped my way out of that conversation and told her I'm not involved in any financial dealings between her and our parents.

But I'm a little stunned that given their health issues (major surgeries this year), her thought is "Shit, the parent bank might not be around that much longer, how can I get my hands on as much as possible while it's still in their name?" and that she would think that asking to borrow potentially most of their savings when they are coming up on end of life care needs is in any way appropriate.

This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #845 on: December 18, 2016, 07:01:29 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #846 on: December 18, 2016, 08:28:59 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

I know this is your parents and you don't have any say in this but... She will likely not change.  The most likely thing that would "help" her is to let her see the results of her own actions and let her fix her own problems.  The bail outs make matters worse.  This is personal experience talking here... My sister is almost 60.  Both of my parents died recently and she's suddenly "on her own" for the first time in her life.  I'm not expecting success.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #847 on: December 18, 2016, 10:11:13 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

Oh goodness.  Your father's best bet may be to set up some sort of trust with the majority of their assets that will only be able to provide living expenses and care for your mother.  I think it could be set up so that, when your mother passes, the balance would be split between you and your sister (or, heck, left entirely to charity), with or without adjustments made for outstanding loans.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #848 on: December 18, 2016, 11:11:03 AM »
My sister is almost 60.  Both of my parents died recently and she's suddenly "on her own" for the first time in her life.  I'm not expecting success.
If you don't mind sharing a bit more, what do you see happening with her? Is she going to be able to downsize and cut expenses? Will you be guilted into rescuing her if she ends up homeless?

These are long-term side-concerns I have with my sister.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #849 on: December 18, 2016, 01:00:36 PM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.
[/quote
The thing is, if one spouse is dead, then the rest of it is easier sailing. When funds run out she is cared for by the taxpayers.

Ive always been more concerned about two spouses ina a household and one needs lots of care.