Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 266943 times)

PriestTheRunner

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #550 on: July 13, 2016, 09:27:50 PM »
Hey!  I have some stories!...  :/

Mostly posting to follow.  I will post up stories when I get the chance...  But I did just go and update mine and my spouse's wills tonight to sign TOMORROW.  Lol, I don't anyone to have to deal with this kind of crap...  :/
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Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #551 on: July 14, 2016, 03:32:13 AM »
I have a story to share...  Well, it is DH's story.  You see, his dad died when he was young, leaving a sister parents, him, and a widow.

Grandparents were always in DH's life, from babysitting while mom worked, to fishing, etc...   So after we were married, we made a point to travel to see them about once a year, sometimes 2x per year.   We were 22-30 at this time, so using up a week of vacation to go drive to visit elderly grand parent -in-laws was not really that exciting, but we were glad to see them.

Well, life got pretty busy for us with small children, a move to California (now to far to travel to see them), and then DH was sick with mono for a year...   Meanwhile, we could never get through on Grandpa's phone, so no contact with him for 2 years, and never followed up that diligently either...

So when grandpa passed away a couple of years ago, we had a bit of shock to learn that DH's Aunt had previously moved him to a care facility nearer to her (great!) but never called us so we could have a chance to see him --as the new city was one we did go to sometimes--, and worst of all, upon death decided to hold no funeral (Grandpa was depressed in the last years, and we knew this was likely his wish), but did not even call DH to say that grandpa had passed away.  We found out because another elderly relative (other side of family) reads the obits put out by funeral homes  -- read that it stated "no funeral", and had posted a few details about his life / family and recognized him and let us know.

As DH had been adopted by another man some 15 years before, (mom remarried) the sole inheritor by intestate rules would have been DH's aunt.. but man, it is so odd because Grandpa used to talk about his will sometimes to us (but not about money in it), and it seems so strange that DH and his great grandkids would have been deliberately cut out.   We are surmising in the best possible way that there was no money left, even after grandpa's home was sold....(the care facility would have cost close to the government monthly stipend, so not drawn from his personal monies, except for the transfer and for clothing).   At the end of it all, all DH only really wanted a small decorative wooden tray his dad had made before he died... that grandpa had treasured more than anything else, and kept with him.  Ugh.  Probably put into the trash.

What do you do when relatives don't even have the courtesy to tell the only other direct descendant that the patriarch was moved to a care home and then that he died a year later?      Especially if there is hints that this was done to mask plundering of any remaining accounts (using power of attorney / joint banking, etc)?


kayvent

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #552 on: July 14, 2016, 03:44:19 AM »
A few posts up we have grumpy 70-year old uncles waiting for their inheritance. Giving them a dozen thousand four decades ago would have stopped all that grief. A person is entitled to their share of the estate....sometimes it is easier just to give them it.
Um, No? Getting a pile of money will not teach them how to be better with it, they'll just burn through it and want more. In my family, it would be sister, not uncle. Different gender, same bad behavior.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I meant to say that it is a technique to avoid strife caused by the inheritor while they wait. Not that the inheritor will use it properly.

Warlord1986

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #553 on: July 14, 2016, 07:27:18 AM »
This one is less drama and more anti-mustachian.

My dad, who is actually a very wise fellow, but HORRIBLE with money, took his share of his parents estate early, about 12 years ago, the other siblings permitted him to do so, so he got a cheque.  And no, he did not invest it wisely, or pay off debt, it was just burned.

Fast forward to when my grandfatherr (his father) dies last year. After the estate is all settled, he tells me that his brothers and sisters are getting a nice big cheque for about $30,000 each from the estate.  So I ask, "And you got one too?"  "No" he says "I took my share on it about 12 years ago, I was about $8,000."

Ouch.

Parents still sometimes give children a share of the estate early?  I thought that only happened in the biblical story of the Prodigal Son.  I can't picture anyone even wanting to ask their parents for early death-money.

If there's someone out there who will ask for it, there is someone out there who will give it. My older brother had the nerve to ask Mom and Daddy for his inheritance early. He wanted to buy tenant housing in NYC and be a slumlord.

Mom told him she wasn't done spending his inheritance.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #554 on: July 14, 2016, 07:52:22 AM »
If there's someone out there who will ask for it, there is someone out there who will give it. My older brother had the nerve to ask Mom and Daddy for his inheritance early. He wanted to buy tenant housing in NYC and be a slumlord.

Mom told him she wasn't done spending his inheritance.
BWAHAHAHAHA!  My parents have said the same thing on many occasions! :D

Kitsune

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #555 on: July 14, 2016, 08:11:45 AM »
If there's someone out there who will ask for it, there is someone out there who will give it. My older brother had the nerve to ask Mom and Daddy for his inheritance early. He wanted to buy tenant housing in NYC and be a slumlord.

Mom told him she wasn't done spending his inheritance.
BWAHAHAHAHA!  My parents have said the same thing on many occasions! :D

OMG, I would never dream of asking my parents for 'early inheritance'. Wtf. It's THEIR money, not mine. Should they die and have some left, it will become (partially) mine (and, realistically, they have hefty life insurance policies, so there will be SOME inheritance, but I'm not banking on it wtf).

How shameless do you have to be? "Hey, I'm earmarking this part of your money as mine when you croak, so can you just give me multiple thousands right now because you owe me your money because I decided?" What on earth??

(Situation changes somewhat if it's, like, family inheritance and trust funds going back generations, with the expectation that any one generation has the obligation to hand it down to the next one, I guess. But that's far from the majority...)

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #556 on: July 14, 2016, 08:22:05 AM »
A few posts up we have grumpy 70-year old uncles waiting for their inheritance. Giving them a dozen thousand four decades ago would have stopped all that grief. A person is entitled to their share of the estate....sometimes it is easier just to give them it.
Um, No? Getting a pile of money will not teach them how to be better with it, they'll just burn through it and want more. In my family, it would be sister, not uncle. Different gender, same bad behavior.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I meant to say that it is a technique to avoid strife caused by the inheritor while they wait. Not that the inheritor will use it properly.
I assure you, it never avoids strife. Real life other branch of the family example: four cousins inherit a property that their father owned as a rental. One son lives in it (stipulated in the will). He has been allotted a very generous amount of time to fix it up in his spare time. It really needs it and he has the skillz. One sibling had a medical issue and needed money. He bought out her share and everyone was happy for a while. Now this house has skyrocketed in value, sister's husband just died and sis has nothing to live on. Can you see where this is going? And this is not the sister referenced earlier. I don't have the stomach to write about that drama fest yet.
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shelivesthedream

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #557 on: July 14, 2016, 09:27:33 AM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die. However, I would be willing to hear the following responses:

1. No.
2. No, but we will loan you the money on generous terms, provided we have confidence in your business plan.
3. Yes, but our intention was always that you and your brother should inherit equally so if for any reason the total value of the estate is less than 25,000 when we die, we expect you to even it up with him.

However, factors to be considered here are:
1. It's a question, not a demand.
2. It is for a specific and legitimate purpose.
3. There is value in the inheritor having the money now and not later.
4. The inheritor has worked and saved, so they have put effort in.
5. In my family the inheritance situation would be very simple: split evenly between two people. Very easy to see if any evening up needs to happen.
6. Barring epic long term health issues, I would expect "my half" to definitely be above 25,000 even if my parents bought everything they wanted.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #558 on: July 14, 2016, 10:59:44 AM »
My grandparents actually brought up the idea to one of my aunts a few years ago, when she and her husband jumped on the Dave Ramsey train and tried to get out of debt. Aunt and Uncle have always worked low paying jobs and made a couple bad financial decisions over the years, but they're the nicest people and I seriously doubt they would have brought it up on their own.

Grandparents were proud of them for trying to turn their financial lives around and wanted to help, but once they started crunching the numbers they realized that giving away 1/3 of their estate now would put them in a place where they'd be chipping away at their investment principal every month instead of living off the interest. Would have left their other kids with a significantly lower inheritance. Didn't think that was fair, so they scrapped the idea.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #559 on: July 14, 2016, 11:09:04 AM »
Ah well, the grandpa's estate closure is going along on the death of his 2nd wife.

My two shitty uncles continued their shitty trend of calling (someone) and wanting to know "when do I get my  money??"  (I'm guessing the boys' trust was quite large, over half a million).  These guys are in their 70s, WTF?

My sister has not figured out what happened to $60k of the missing trust for the girls.  She suspects the boys raided it. 

Based on a letter she sent to the trust people, they amended their letter and the amounts that each beneficiary gets - and it's now correct.  So, I told my sister she should get a cut of it since she did their job for them!  Sheesh.

In any event, I was visiting and she is so frustrated with how horrible our uncles are, how there is money missing, and how upset my mother would be if she were alive.  I told her to let it go.  We aren't talking a lot of money here.  Mom is dead, so she doesn't know any better.  Don't worry about things you cannot control. So the uncles' wives get the money and blow it all - great! it goes into the economy.  You can't change it.  They are old and miserable and will continue to be so.  Can you imagine waiting until you are over 70 to get a windfall so that you can "enjoy life"???

If the girl's trust is smaller (and there are more recipients?), $60k missing may not be so insignificant for everyone receiving under it.  Doesn't the trustee have records of any disbursements?  (Wouldn't the trustee also be on the hook for an improper disbursement?)  Or is it possible that step-grandma spent it and it's not missing after all?
My sister has asked for annual statements going back to the year that it had more money in it.  She hasn't gotten them yet.  If the boys raided it, it would totally suck, and there is virtually  no chance of getting the money back now.  You can't hold up the big trust to sort it out, anyway.  Not legally.  We both, of course, hope that step-grandma needed it and used it. 

You are right that it's not insignificant.  $60k equates 1/4 of the total.

Interesting, I would have assumed the trustee would have a fiduciary duty to only make proper disbursements, and thus you'd have legal recourse against them if they breached that duty by permitting someone who was not authorized to take money.  It's not any different if they gave me the money or an unpermitted family member.  And of course, you could go after the uncles (if you wished to accept with the associated fallout from it) because it's considering stealing to take money that they have no right to.  Anyways, hopefully it was step-grandma!
You would think.  But there was a clause in there about "severe financial need". The problem is, when the bank handling the trust first sent out the recent letters, they mentioned that a small portion of the "girl's" trust was going to go to the boys.  My sister is the one that got them to review that (my sister has a copy of all the documents, my mother having been in banking).  When they re-read it, they corrected it.

Which leads me to believe that it's entirely possible that they let the boys raid the girls' trust, if they didn't even read the damn trust documents until last month.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #560 on: July 14, 2016, 11:11:02 AM »
This one is less drama and more anti-mustachian.

My dad, who is actually a very wise fellow, but HORRIBLE with money, took his share of his parents estate early, about 12 years ago, the other siblings permitted him to do so, so he got a cheque.  And no, he did not invest it wisely, or pay off debt, it was just burned.

Fast forward to when my grandfatherr (his father) dies last year. After the estate is all settled, he tells me that his brothers and sisters are getting a nice big cheque for about $30,000 each from the estate.  So I ask, "And you got one too?"  "No" he says "I took my share on it about 12 years ago, I was about $8,000."

Ouch.

Parents still sometimes give children a share of the estate early?  I thought that only happened in the biblical story of the Prodigal Son.  I can't picture anyone even wanting to ask their parents for early death-money.

If Jonny wants to get his share early and be written out of the will I don't see an issue with that....

A few posts up we have grumpy 70-year old uncles waiting for their inheritance. Giving them a dozen thousand four decades ago would have stopped all that grief. A person is entitled to their share of the estate....sometimes it is easier just to give them it.
The one *good* uncle I had worked very hard with my grandpa in the family business.  He got *his* inheritance in the form of part of the business when he was in his 30's or 40's (grandpa still alive), and of course, did very well with it.  That's why even though there are 3 boys, only 2 are part of the trust.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #561 on: July 14, 2016, 11:13:01 AM »
You would think.  But there was a clause in there about "severe financial need". The problem is, when the bank handling the trust first sent out the recent letters, they mentioned that a small portion of the "girl's" trust was going to go to the boys.  My sister is the one that got them to review that (my sister has a copy of all the documents, my mother having been in banking).  When they re-read it, they corrected it.

Which leads me to believe that it's entirely possible that they let the boys raid the girls' trust, if they didn't even read the damn trust documents until last month.

Delightful.  If that's true, can it be recovered from the boys trust before releasing those funds to them?  Or would you (your sister) have to actually sue them to get it back?

I'm pretty glad your step-grandma lived a long time given their bad behavior!

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #562 on: July 14, 2016, 11:14:38 AM »
If there's someone out there who will ask for it, there is someone out there who will give it. My older brother had the nerve to ask Mom and Daddy for his inheritance early. He wanted to buy tenant housing in NYC and be a slumlord.

Mom told him she wasn't done spending his inheritance.
BWAHAHAHAHA!  My parents have said the same thing on many occasions! :D
My FIL used to say "my kids are my retirement plan".  And then he cheated on his wife (MIL) and they divorced.  Good luck with that buddy.

Recently FIL, SIL and hubby were talking retirement.  FIL has SS and small state pension.  SIL works for school district, will get a pension. 

"Do you have a pension hubby?"  Nope, just 401ks and IRAs.

Lookilu

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #563 on: July 14, 2016, 02:03:01 PM »
Quote
What do you do when relatives don't even have the courtesy to tell the only other direct descendant that the patriarch was moved to a care home and then that he died a year later?      Especially if there is hints that this was done to mask plundering of any remaining accounts (using power of attorney / joint banking, etc)?

I'm not sure how unusual this is, but a similar situation happened to my Dad.
Dad was the oldest of five siblings and always a worker and a saver, along with my Mom. Two of his brothers and his sister were ne'er-do-wells, always looking for capital for their get rich quick schemes or for bailouts. After unsuccessfully hitting my parents up for money, my two uncles and aunt stopped speaking to my folks, and apparently Grandma sided with them, so it was radio silence from that side of the family for several years.
Then one day they called my Dad to let him know that their mother had died and, oh, by the way, the funeral was last week/last month/last year. (I really can't remember; I was a kid.)
That's how he found out his mother had died. I don't think he ever spoke to any of them again.

I am sorry to hear about your situation though. It sucks.

geekette

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #564 on: July 14, 2016, 03:10:43 PM »
Odd inheritance story, and I don't know how it will end. Friend's ex listed her as a beneficiary on an annuity dating back to their separation over 10 years ago. Friend's ex remarried, adopted a child, and recently died unexpectedly.

The annuity company asked friend  for separation papers and divorce decree, which she sent on, but their request for a certified death certificate from her seemed absurd (and how would she get it anyway?)

Change your beneficiaries, y'all!

Pooperman

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #565 on: July 14, 2016, 03:14:49 PM »
Odd inheritance story, and I don't know how it will end. Friend's ex listed her as a beneficiary on an annuity dating back to their separation over 10 years ago. Friend's ex remarried, adopted a child, and recently died unexpectedly.

The annuity company asked friend  for separation papers and divorce decree, which she sent on, but their request for a certified death certificate from her seemed absurd (and how would she get it anyway?)

Change your beneficiaries, y'all!

Just put me down. I'll take good care of the money! :P

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #566 on: July 14, 2016, 11:19:15 PM »
This one is less drama and more anti-mustachian.

My dad, who is actually a very wise fellow, but HORRIBLE with money, took his share of his parents estate early, about 12 years ago, the other siblings permitted him to do so, so he got a cheque.  And no, he did not invest it wisely, or pay off debt, it was just burned.

Fast forward to when my grandfatherr (his father) dies last year. After the estate is all settled, he tells me that his brothers and sisters are getting a nice big cheque for about $30,000 each from the estate.  So I ask, "And you got one too?"  "No" he says "I took my share on it about 12 years ago, I was about $8,000."

Ouch.

Parents still sometimes give children a share of the estate early?  I thought that only happened in the biblical story of the Prodigal Son.  I can't picture anyone even wanting to ask their parents for early death-money.

I have a younger sibling who did. He's basically waiting around like a vulture hoping our folks will leave him a ton of cash. Other than that he wants nothing to do with them and prefers zero contact unless he's hitting them up for something.

Sadly, they considered doing just that, except they need the income from their investments to live on.
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Dee18

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #567 on: July 15, 2016, 10:10:15 AM »
Re Geekette's question:  a death certificate is a public record.  For a few dollars your friend can get it from the state that issued the death certificate.  Just tell her to Google it.

geekette

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #568 on: July 15, 2016, 10:18:33 AM »
Re Geekette's question:  a death certificate is a public record.  For a few dollars your friend can get it from the state that issued the death certificate.  Just tell her to Google it.

They requested a certified copy, which is only issued to next of kin (at least in that state; I did Google). Besides, she's the named beneficiary, so why should she jump through more hoops to attempt to decline the money? 

Dee18

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #569 on: July 15, 2016, 10:29:26 AM »
Check those trust documents!
A year ago my mother decided to change the trustee on her trust.  The trust (and my deceased father's trust) had been drafted by a prominent, and expensive, law firm, and amended by the firm over the years. My mother had recently heard an elder law attorney speak at her church group and wanted to go there, so we did.  In preparation for going, I read the trust documents.  There were inconsistencies in amendments:  a key one being that my daughter (the only grandchild) was written into the trust 15 years ago, but when other changes were made later, the law firm copied the beneficiaries from an early version, omitting my daughter.  Because my father had died, the trust could not be changed, leaving my sister and me as the sole beneficiaries upon my mother's death.  My mother said the intent had been for my daughter to get 1/5 and my sister and I to each get 2/5 of my parents' estate, which had been the family lore, so she added my daughter as a beneficiary to her trust, essentially achieving the desired result. (Btw, the elder law firm was fabulous at explaining all this to my mother and walking her through it all, and they charged only $250 for the entire process, including three meetings.  How do they make money?). I'm so glad that we did not discover the error after my mom's death.  I confess I omitted the drama part relating to the changing of the trustee....no need for another "families behaving badly" vignette! 




Dee18

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #570 on: July 15, 2016, 10:35:00 AM »
Thanks Geekette!  I mistakenly thought all states had clauses like, "a person who can demonstrate that the certificate is needed for the determination or protection of a personal or property right" in their list of who could get a certified death certificate.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #571 on: July 15, 2016, 10:56:43 AM »
Check those trust documents!
A year ago my mother decided to change the trustee on her trust.  The trust (and my deceased father's trust) had been drafted by a prominent, and expensive, law firm, and amended by the firm over the years. My mother had recently heard an elder law attorney speak at her church group and wanted to go there, so we did.  In preparation for going, I read the trust documents.  There were inconsistencies in amendments:  a key one being that my daughter (the only grandchild) was written into the trust 15 years ago, but when other changes were made later, the law firm copied the beneficiaries from an early version, omitting my daughter.  Because my father had died, the trust could not be changed, leaving my sister and me as the sole beneficiaries upon my mother's death.  My mother said the intent had been for my daughter to get 1/5 and my sister and I to each get 2/5 of my parents' estate, which had been the family lore, so she added my daughter as a beneficiary to her trust, essentially achieving the desired result. (Btw, the elder law firm was fabulous at explaining all this to my mother and walking her through it all, and they charged only $250 for the entire process, including three meetings.  How do they make money?). I'm so glad that we did not discover the error after my mom's death.  I confess I omitted the drama part relating to the changing of the trustee....no need for another "families behaving badly" vignette!
My grandfather's bank changed the manager of the trust (or whatever it's called...not enough coffee) from his family lawyer to themselves, just by sneaking a paper into a big pile that he was signing.  Yeah, my mom and other family members were PISSED - they didn't find THAT out until grandpa died and the lawyer contacted them ... and they said "nope, he signed a paper right here!"

dpfromva

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #572 on: July 15, 2016, 01:25:49 PM »
This thread is ADDICTIVE.
So many awful stories about split shares of real estate. My Dad remarried a nice lady a few years after my Mom died. He told me he was changing his will to leave his house 1/3 to me and 2/3 to her. I began imagining sharing the house with her kids after she died and visions of real estate nightmares danced in my head. "Oh hell no, Dad," I told him, "Leave her the whole house. And may you die with a smile on your face and a dollar left in your pocket."
I'm his executor and I know where the will is, but I don't even care what's in it. He has me joint on a small bank account, which will cover the funeral and a send off with plenty of booze at the local fire hall. That's good enough for me.
Just changed my will -- I bought a modest rental house and my tenant is daughter #2, in the city where she graduated and is pursuing her professional career. Daughter #1 is in NYC and told her, "Sweetie, I can't afford to buy a parking space to rent to you." The house is willed to daughter #2, and I rebalanced my life insurance so Daughter #1 gets additional insurance proceeds equivalent to the value of the house. I'll revisit the amount annually based on housing market appreciation (the area is gentrifying so the expected trend is upward). I would never want to leave my daughters a legacy of dispute and estrangement due to shared real estate.

redbird

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #573 on: July 15, 2016, 02:22:35 PM »
So many interesting stories!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 08:30:38 AM by redbird »
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SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #574 on: July 15, 2016, 06:24:31 PM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die.

Oh, hell no.

I would ask to borrow some money from my parents and pay it back.   I simply cannot imagine asking my parents for "my" share of their estate.


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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #575 on: July 15, 2016, 07:53:47 PM »
I have a story to share...  Well, it is DH's story.  You see, his dad died when he was young, leaving a sister parents, him, and a widow.

Grandparents were always in DH's life, from babysitting while mom worked, to fishing, etc...   So after we were married, we made a point to travel to see them about once a year, sometimes 2x per year.   We were 22-30 at this time, so using up a week of vacation to go drive to visit elderly grand parent -in-laws was not really that exciting, but we were glad to see them.

Well, life got pretty busy for us with small children, a move to California (now to far to travel to see them), and then DH was sick with mono for a year...   Meanwhile, we could never get through on Grandpa's phone, so no contact with him for 2 years, and never followed up that diligently either...

So when grandpa passed away a couple of years ago, we had a bit of shock to learn that DH's Aunt had previously moved him to a care facility nearer to her (great!) but never called us so we could have a chance to see him --as the new city was one we did go to sometimes--, and worst of all, upon death decided to hold no funeral (Grandpa was depressed in the last years, and we knew this was likely his wish), but did not even call DH to say that grandpa had passed away.  We found out because another elderly relative (other side of family) reads the obits put out by funeral homes  -- read that it stated "no funeral", and had posted a few details about his life / family and recognized him and let us know.

As DH had been adopted by another man some 15 years before, (mom remarried) the sole inheritor by intestate rules would have been DH's aunt.. but man, it is so odd because Grandpa used to talk about his will sometimes to us (but not about money in it), and it seems so strange that DH and his great grandkids would have been deliberately cut out.   We are surmising in the best possible way that there was no money left, even after grandpa's home was sold....(the care facility would have cost close to the government monthly stipend, so not drawn from his personal monies, except for the transfer and for clothing).   At the end of it all, all DH only really wanted a small decorative wooden tray his dad had made before he died... that grandpa had treasured more than anything else, and kept with him.  Ugh.  Probably put into the trash.

What do you do when relatives don't even have the courtesy to tell the only other direct descendant that the patriarch was moved to a care home and then that he died a year later?      Especially if there is hints that this was done to mask plundering of any remaining accounts (using power of attorney / joint banking, etc)?


By your own words, you say your husband got too busy and made no effort to stay in basic contact with his grandfather and after trying by phone and having it be disconnected (?) you didn't try other attempts (mail? other relatives? go visit?). You moved away, ceased all contact and apparently did not even write letters or send cards, because if you did, likely someone would have written you back to let you know where he ended up. 

Looking at if from the other side:

Grandfather was probably sad and hurt but realized that was your husband's decision to cut him out of his life for some reason, and moved on and stopped thinking about him. His daughter who was there and likely a much closer relationship, took care of him and had to step in and deal with his taxes and bills and other day to day as he aged and became more feeble, and she would have needed the power of attorney and to be on a joint account to make things easy for her to take care of the things as needed (this is not in any way suspicious unless she has a history of being dishonest or evil - it is VERY common). Who is doing all this "hinting" that grandfather's accounts were being plundered? You haven't been in contact with that side of the family in years, right?

The daughter did inform everyone the best she could by placing a public obituary - that's what those things are for. I think it is very unrealistic to have expected her to put her own grief and dealing with the mess of closing an estate aside to try to track down and personally contact an estranged relative (your husband) who had moved out of the area and had lost contact with his grandfather for YEARS, and likely she herself had no contact info for, especially right after her own father's death.

So it's a little sad, but what one should expect if you let the relationship die away and make no effort at all.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:17:14 PM by Frankies Girl »
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Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #576 on: July 15, 2016, 11:07:10 PM »
OMG, FG, I was thinking the very same thing! Bingo. You nailed it.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #577 on: July 16, 2016, 12:48:24 AM »
I've had to deal with the deaths of two close relatives in the last two years.  One of the worst parts of it is going through their contact books to let people know of the death.  A notice in the local paper is essential to cover the wider circle of acquaintances.  After that, one probably has more immediate concerns than trying to think up who else might want to know and working out how to contact them.  Anyone who should have been contacted and wasn't usually gets picked up at the following birthday and Christmas/annual festival of your choice.  If someone doesn't have a up to date address in the contact book and doesn't send birthday or Christmas greetings they can't reasonably expect to be notified.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #578 on: July 16, 2016, 02:56:42 AM »
This thread is ADDICTIVE.
So many awful stories about split shares of real estate. My Dad remarried a nice lady a few years after my Mom died. He told me he was changing his will to leave his house 1/3 to me and 2/3 to her. I began imagining sharing the house with her kids after she died and visions of real estate nightmares danced in my head. "Oh hell no, Dad," I told him, "Leave her the whole house. And may you die with a smile on your face and a dollar left in your pocket."
I'm his executor and I know where the will is, but I don't even care what's in it. He has me joint on a small bank account, which will cover the funeral and a send off with plenty of booze at the local fire hall. That's good enough for me.
Just changed my will -- I bought a modest rental house and my tenant is daughter #2, in the city where she graduated and is pursuing her professional career. Daughter #1 is in NYC and told her, "Sweetie, I can't afford to buy a parking space to rent to you." The house is willed to daughter #2, and I rebalanced my life insurance so Daughter #1 gets additional insurance proceeds equivalent to the value of the house. I'll revisit the amount annually based on housing market appreciation (the area is gentrifying so the expected trend is upward). I would never want to leave my daughters a legacy of dispute and estrangement due to shared real estate.

sounds like a lot of hassle to me personally.  Cant you just adjust your will to say that daughter 2 gets life insurance amount of 100% of property value given to daughter 1?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #579 on: July 16, 2016, 06:16:42 AM »
The life insurance mention reminded me of my decision a few years ago to include my SO in my estate plan.  We were quite serious, but not married, so I made him a beneficiary on part of my (work provided) life insurance.  I could go online and and change that at any time in 60 seconds (which I did a few years later).  No need to write a codicil to the will.  (Of course, one could just as easily change beneficiaries to IRA accounts.)

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #580 on: July 16, 2016, 06:20:25 AM »
My in-laws just told me and my husband that they want my husband to be both the will executor and trustee. They want to work it so their assets will be placed in a trust to avoid probate. He accepted this job and the details are still being worked. The only thing we worry about is my husband and his sister didn't get along at all in childhood and haven't spoken in years. I have not even met her as a result of this despite having been dating + married to him for so many years. The sister is being given 1 important role, medical power of attorney, because she lives only a few minutes' drive away from his parents and could act faster if needed. This makes sense. We currently live several hours away. Being ER, we could easily stay in his parents' town if something happens, but that would require a day or two to act, so we couldn't help with medical things as much. But the sister isn't very reliable for many reasons and thus why this was the only responsibility she was given. His parents will probably be around for another 10-15 years or so, but whenever they do both die - hopefully the sister doesn't try to cause any drama. We have the time to take care of his parents' estate however is needed, but I don't like family drama in general. :/
Redbird, this gave me chills to read, especially the bolded parts. My brain is screaming Nooooooooooooo! Your in-laws are thinking "acute medical emergency, where time is of the essence", which is actually a less common scenario than "gradual age-related decline". In this day of efficient communication, proximity does not trump reliability. For context, both of my parents have passed away in the last two years. I have alluded to this situation upthread. I don't want to discuss it at great length, but for your sake, I will share what, I assure you, is only the tip of the Titanic-sized iceberg..
 
I'm from a large family. When my parents established their trust, they gave two sisters medical POA and made a brother and me executors and trustees, with the intent of easing the burden*. From sad experience, I can tell you it didn't work out so well, as the line between the responsibilities gets fuzzy with age. For example, parents were both in a rehab facility for different reasons. Dad improved and no longer qualified for insurance coverage, but couldn't really go home. He didn't want to, because he wanted to be near mom. He was incontinent, barely ambulatory and couldn't get back and forth on his own. For him to stay there cost nearly 12k per month out of pocket. Medical decision or financial decision? We agreed to keep him there, but medical POA/spendthrift sister kept doing things llike ordering physical therapy at added cost (!) so dad would get "better". Dad didn't want it but didn't have the energy to fight with her, so he would go and do absolutely nothing. The facility happily and expensively kept up this charade until the fiscal team intervened.

Next, the spendthrift medical POA sister (hereafter, Sister X) lived closest to my parents, and was conveniently unemployed (by choice). As they aged, my parents relied on her to get to medical appointments, do pharmacy and grocery runs, etc. Over time, it became "easier" if she was on their credit cards. As they got less comfortable driving, my sister started using their car for all of her own driving, charging all gas and maintenance to their CC. They bought a new car and within three years, my jobless sister racked up 77k miles on it.

My parents paid her for her time*, then started paying her rent, too. Pretty soon she was buying all her own groceries, plus whatever else she wanted, with her copy of their Costco Amex Card. Gradually, my parents grew terribly dependent on her and she grew to resent them. Not enough to get a job, of course. But enough to feel that jaunts to casinos on their credit card were justified, to the tune of Eleven Thousand Dollars before we caught on. (Thanks, facebookr!) None of us resented the money my parents were giving her until that came to light and she was completely unrepentant. Yup, when questioned, she said she deserved it and enjoyed spending the money, accckk!!!

I could sadly go on, but this drama is still unfolding and I haven't the stomach to write more about it yet. Just know that dividing these duties may backfire in ways none of you can imagine. For everyone's sake, have a heart-to-heart with all parties and encourage them to consider this decision more carefully.

*My mom was a geriatric nurse and Director of Nurses at a large Convalescent Hospital, as there were called in her day, for 25 years. She'd seen first hand all the family drama and thought she had done everything she could to see that it didn't happen in her family. She hated that they grew so dependent on Sister X. She would call and say they hadn't heard from Sister X for four days or that Sister X had promised to be over in the morning, but hadn't shown up at all that day, etc.
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #581 on: July 16, 2016, 09:24:13 AM »
My in-laws just told me and my husband that they want my husband to be both the will executor and trustee. They want to work it so their assets will be placed in a trust to avoid probate. He accepted this job and the details are still being worked. The only thing we worry about is my husband and his sister didn't get along at all in childhood and haven't spoken in years. I have not even met her as a result of this despite having been dating + married to him for so many years. The sister is being given 1 important role, medical power of attorney, because she lives only a few minutes' drive away from his parents and could act faster if needed. This makes sense. We currently live several hours away. Being ER, we could easily stay in his parents' town if something happens, but that would require a day or two to act, so we couldn't help with medical things as much. But the sister isn't very reliable for many reasons and thus why this was the only responsibility she was given. His parents will probably be around for another 10-15 years or so, but whenever they do both die - hopefully the sister doesn't try to cause any drama. We have the time to take care of his parents' estate however is needed, but I don't like family drama in general. :/
Redbird, this gave me chills to read, especially the bolded parts. My brain is screaming Nooooooooooooo! Your in-laws are thinking "acute medical emergency, where time is of the essence", which is actually a less common scenario than "gradual age-related decline". In this day of efficient communication, proximity does not trump reliability. . . .

I could sadly go on, but this drama is still unfolding and I haven't the stomach to write more about it yet. Just know that dividing these duties may backfire in ways none of you can imagine. For everyone's sake, have a heart-to-heart with all parties and encourage them to consider this decision more carefully.

Redbird, I'm with Diane C on this.  I'm my father's medical POA even though I live about a thousand miles away.  All his doctors have a copy of the paperwork on file (and I have a copy, too, in case I need to fax it to a new doctor/emergency room), and as medical issues happen, we discuss them and deal with them over the phone until I can get there.  Medical decisions should be in the hands of those who are prudent and thinking in the best interests of the patient, not just the person who physically lives closest.  If the person who lives closest fits the bill, all the better, but if not, things can be done over the phone.

Diane C, I'm very sorry to hear that you and your family are going through this.  Wishing you all the best.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #582 on: July 16, 2016, 03:09:39 PM »
First post on the forum!  I've got a situation that could've easily developed into drama, but fortunately defused!

My grandpa died a couple years back.  He'd been in declining mental health for the last ten years or so, but before then, he had the good sense to put his rather large farm (which he'd already been leasing out) in a trust managed by my uncle.  His will said everything would be divided equally among his four children; I don't know if there were any more specifications.

Once Grandpa died, Uncle - who works in farm equipment sales, so he knows about farming - called together his siblings (Mom + two Aunts), laid out the figures, and asked what to do.  Uncle and Mom wanted to hold on to the property and keep it in the family; Older Aunt wasn't sure at first but eventually decided she wanted to keep it too.  Younger Aunt (who's taken somewhat-early retirement after her husband sold a business he founded, and is now living an un-Mustachian life of travel; her finances are her own business and I don't pry), on the other hand, wanted to sell a good part of her share now.

For a few months, things looked unstably like Younger Aunt was going to force either a division and sale of her share (which would lower the value of the whole farm since it'd be a smaller unit), or a sale of the whole thing (due to some rather confusing tax bases.)  But, after looking at their own finances, Mom, Uncle, and Older Aunt decided to buy out part of Younger Aunt's share so the whole farm would stay in the family - and after a tense week or two, Younger Aunt accepted.

So, after a drama-free meeting following a family wedding where we verified figures and signed paperwork, we've got a family farm that's formally divided into three roughly-equal plots of land and one smaller plot, Younger Aunt has her cash, Uncle is still managing the whole farm as a unit, and the same reliable tenants that Grandpa was leasing to for the last twenty years are still living there happily.

PointC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #583 on: July 17, 2016, 09:58:01 AM »
My contribution, not all that dramatic just kind of odd and funny.

15ish years ago my paternal grandparents did the whole sticky note on the bottom of things you want to inherit thing while they downsized. They let all 3 of the children and the 5 grandchildren claim anything they wanted. Not very much crossover, things were negotiated, it all seems to have worked out okay.
I however am quite a bit younger than my siblings/cousins, they were all older teenagers, I was a child at this point. Everyone walks out with their names on furniture, antiques, china etc. I walk out with my name on a single item, a large stuffed bear :D

To this day this has never been revisited, my name is still on that bear and nothing else, I find it hilarious.

Pro_Amateur

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #584 on: July 17, 2016, 02:46:06 PM »
This thread is so addictive it should be placed on a controlled substance list. I had to refrain from binge reading the whole thing because I need to sleep and eat too. No idea why I haven't spotted this gem before.

My maternal grandmother used to say every Christmas that she felt that "this was going to be her last winter". At first it was a bit odd, but she kept doing it for like 20 years so after a while we started joking about it. If she bought a new piece of furniture, our family would comment that it might not have been a good investment considering her remarks, or we'd simply say "hey! you're spending our money here!". Everybody would have a good laugh, including granny.

Despite her old age (94), it was still a surprise when she suddenly died a couple of years ago. She had three children: two sons and my mother. One of the sons died about ten years ago. He had one daughter.

When grandma died, I pointed out to my parents that the daughter, my cousin, was legally entitled to the share of my deceased uncle. My parents told me that the cousin needed to reach out to them instead of the other way around and some other crap to get around their obligations. I'm a lawyer by training and I pointed out that they were running some risks here. Well guess who needed a lawyer when they got their behinds sued by my cousin. I kindly referred them to someone else. Even though I'm not close to my cousin, there's no way I'm going to get professionally mixed up in a messy situation within my family.   

My grandma didn't have a lot of money, even so little that tax-wise we only had to report her passing, not even file papers or anything. Eventually my cousin dropped the lawsuit without getting any money. I'm certain my parents pilfered some money because they suddenly both had a new car. I don't know the details and I don't want to know.

On a funnier note: my seriously un-mustachian spendthrift other cousin (in a debt relief program, kids have only old and dirty clothes, yet he drives a new SUV and keeps buying horses and trailers that he doesn't tell the debt relief lawyer about) recently got eyes on his grandma's bank statements and was already telling everybody what he would do with his part of the money. There is only one minor hiccup in his plan: the money will go to his seriously un-mustachian spendthrift mother before it reaches him...
I smile every time I think about this.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #585 on: July 18, 2016, 07:42:31 AM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die.

Oh, hell no.

I would ask to borrow some money from my parents and pay it back.   I simply cannot imagine asking my parents for "my" share of their estate.

Ummm, people get (part of) their inheritance early really frequently in my family. I never thought of it as weird before reading this thread. Is it the ASKING for the inheritance that you find inappropriate or the giving pre-death?

I've been offered a pre-inheritance a couple of times from various relatives (when I was either considering buying a house or (pre-mmm) sorting out my financial shit). I don't know the details of it but I know that my siblings have been given pre-inheritances at expensive stages of their lives (house buying, fertility treatment, illness, relationship break-up). I also don't know the asking/offering dynamic with the siblings' share, but there was no demanding and everyone gets on well. I know that one of my great-aunts gave aunts/uncles pre-inheritances when they asked - her will just reflected the amounts given when she died.

Before reading this thread, if I was in the example Shelivesthedream gave, I would have totally asked (not demanded) if they would consider a pre-inheritance. Is this an Atlantic divide thing, or a family dynamic thing?

[If people think I am a terrible person for thinking this, please keep your comments to academic study of why/how/what rather than name calling. ]

Kitsune

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #586 on: July 18, 2016, 07:48:59 AM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die.

Oh, hell no.

I would ask to borrow some money from my parents and pay it back.   I simply cannot imagine asking my parents for "my" share of their estate.

Ummm, people get (part of) their inheritance early really frequently in my family. I never thought of it as weird before reading this thread. Is it the ASKING for the inheritance that you find inappropriate or the giving pre-death?

I've been offered a pre-inheritance a couple of times from various relatives (when I was either considering buying a house or (pre-mmm) sorting out my financial shit). I don't know the details of it but I know that my siblings have been given pre-inheritances at expensive stages of their lives (house buying, fertility treatment, illness, relationship break-up). I also don't know the asking/offering dynamic with the siblings' share, but there was no demanding and everyone gets on well. I know that one of my great-aunts gave aunts/uncles pre-inheritances when they asked - her will just reflected the amounts given when she died.

Before reading this thread, if I was in the example Shelivesthedream gave, I would have totally asked (not demanded) if they would consider a pre-inheritance. Is this an Atlantic divide thing, or a family dynamic thing?

[If people think I am a terrible person for thinking this, please keep your comments to academic study of why/how/what rather than name calling. ]

It's the asking. Totally the asking.

If my parents want to say "hey, we've earmarked this money for you, you can either get it now when we think you need it or after we die, your choice", they've chosen what to do with their money, and I'd take it if I needed it and be appreciative.

That's different from saying "I've decided that this part of your money is my money and can I have it now."

Frankly, in my family, if I went to my parents and said "hey, could I borrow X amount and we could discuss a payment plan", it'd likely be offered up as a pre-inheritance... but I wouldn't assume that that money is earmarked as mine unless it was explicitly stated.

Spork

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #587 on: July 18, 2016, 08:26:34 AM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die.

Oh, hell no.

I would ask to borrow some money from my parents and pay it back.   I simply cannot imagine asking my parents for "my" share of their estate.

Ummm, people get (part of) their inheritance early really frequently in my family. I never thought of it as weird before reading this thread. Is it the ASKING for the inheritance that you find inappropriate or the giving pre-death?

I've been offered a pre-inheritance a couple of times from various relatives (when I was either considering buying a house or (pre-mmm) sorting out my financial shit). I don't know the details of it but I know that my siblings have been given pre-inheritances at expensive stages of their lives (house buying, fertility treatment, illness, relationship break-up). I also don't know the asking/offering dynamic with the siblings' share, but there was no demanding and everyone gets on well. I know that one of my great-aunts gave aunts/uncles pre-inheritances when they asked - her will just reflected the amounts given when she died.

Before reading this thread, if I was in the example Shelivesthedream gave, I would have totally asked (not demanded) if they would consider a pre-inheritance. Is this an Atlantic divide thing, or a family dynamic thing?

[If people think I am a terrible person for thinking this, please keep your comments to academic study of why/how/what rather than name calling. ]

It's the asking. Totally the asking.

If my parents want to say "hey, we've earmarked this money for you, you can either get it now when we think you need it or after we die, your choice", they've chosen what to do with their money, and I'd take it if I needed it and be appreciative.

That's different from saying "I've decided that this part of your money is my money and can I have it now."

Frankly, in my family, if I went to my parents and said "hey, could I borrow X amount and we could discuss a payment plan", it'd likely be offered up as a pre-inheritance... but I wouldn't assume that that money is earmarked as mine unless it was explicitly stated.

It is the asking... but it's more than that, too.

Let's say I have $1M in the bank, 2 children and I live entirely off the investment income of $1M.

Child 1 demands their half.  I give them $500k.  Now I am living off of the investment income of $500k.  My lifestyle is such that it's okay, but I am starting to draw down the $500k.  When I die, the remaining child gets their inheritance and it's only $250k.

But it is the asking.  It's presumptuous.  "Oh, I see you have lots of money.  It's mine, right?"
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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #588 on: July 18, 2016, 08:37:30 AM »
I don't know, I can see some circumstances in which a child might ask for some inheritance money early. For example, if I wanted to start a business and needed 50,000 and didn't want to take out a loan if possible and only had 25,000 saved up, I might ask my parents if they would be willing to give me the other half against any money I might inherit when they die.

Oh, hell no.

I would ask to borrow some money from my parents and pay it back.   I simply cannot imagine asking my parents for "my" share of their estate.

Ummm, people get (part of) their inheritance early really frequently in my family. I never thought of it as weird before reading this thread. Is it the ASKING for the inheritance that you find inappropriate or the giving pre-death?

I've been offered a pre-inheritance a couple of times from various relatives (when I was either considering buying a house or (pre-mmm) sorting out my financial shit). I don't know the details of it but I know that my siblings have been given pre-inheritances at expensive stages of their lives (house buying, fertility treatment, illness, relationship break-up). I also don't know the asking/offering dynamic with the siblings' share, but there was no demanding and everyone gets on well. I know that one of my great-aunts gave aunts/uncles pre-inheritances when they asked - her will just reflected the amounts given when she died.

Before reading this thread, if I was in the example Shelivesthedream gave, I would have totally asked (not demanded) if they would consider a pre-inheritance. Is this an Atlantic divide thing, or a family dynamic thing?

[If people think I am a terrible person for thinking this, please keep your comments to academic study of why/how/what rather than name calling. ]

It's the asking. Totally the asking.

If my parents want to say "hey, we've earmarked this money for you, you can either get it now when we think you need it or after we die, your choice", they've chosen what to do with their money, and I'd take it if I needed it and be appreciative.

That's different from saying "I've decided that this part of your money is my money and can I have it now."

Frankly, in my family, if I went to my parents and said "hey, could I borrow X amount and we could discuss a payment plan", it'd likely be offered up as a pre-inheritance... but I wouldn't assume that that money is earmarked as mine unless it was explicitly stated.

It is the asking... but it's more than that, too.

Let's say I have $1M in the bank, 2 children and I live entirely off the investment income of $1M.

Child 1 demands their half.
  I give them $500k.  Now I am living off of the investment income of $500k.  My lifestyle is such that it's okay, but I am starting to draw down the $500k.  When I die, the remaining child gets their inheritance and it's only $250k.

But it is the asking.  It's presumptuous.  "Oh, I see you have lots of money.  It's mine, right?"

That's m point, though. It's NOT their half to demand. It's yours. And quite frankly, if you decided to spend the last year of your life flying business class around the world and staying at every expensive hotel you can find, it'd STILL be yours, and they wouldn't be entitled to say 'that's my money you're spending'. And if you died and decided that that 500K was meant to go to a homeless shelter for elderly cats, well, now it belongs to the homeless shelter for elderly cats, and not to child #1, because it isn't and never was their money.

If you say to child #1 "hey, I think you might need some help now, I can float you 50K against that sum in your inheritance", then it BECOMES their money because you have made it so. But otherwise, it's just not theirs to demand.

(Kind of like how my parents are absolutely free to help my younger brother (mental health issues, combined with general immaturity, is a shitty combination) with whatever amount they want, because it is THEIR MONEY. If they have money issues in retirement and need my help, then I'll feel like I can have a say in how they spend MY money, but as long as it's theirs, it's actually theirs to decide what to do with.)

BTDretire

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #589 on: July 18, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »
Earlier in the thread I related the house that mom left sis and I.
She's lived in it rent free for about 4 years now. She's make little money
couldn't buy it or pay me rent if she had such an inclination.
  But after reading some of the the other posts, I have a question.
 I'd like get my name off the title for liability reasons, but I'm thinking
I'd like the house to go to me or my kids when she dies.
Is this reasonable to setup, I think I could push this without a
great problem because after few more years I will have forgiven as
many dollars as much as her value in the house.
 We both still expect another 20 to 25 years of life.

  No, I don't want to force a sale, sis has nothing and has lived in
a van, and would probably end up there again. I just think someone
on my side deserves something from the inheritance even if it's 25
years later!
 

dpfromva

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #590 on: July 18, 2016, 01:20:04 PM »
The life insurance mention reminded me of my decision a few years ago to include my SO in my estate plan.  We were quite serious, but not married, so I made him a beneficiary on part of my (work provided) life insurance.  I could go online and and change that at any time in 60 seconds (which I did a few years later).  No need to write a codicil to the will.  (Of course, one could just as easily change beneficiaries to IRA accounts.)

Reminds me of when my future spouse and bought a house together -- we each took out life insurance so the other could afford to remain in the house in case something happened to one of us. We also had a rather complicated divvying up of finances -- some payments 50-50, some in proportion to our relative incomes. He was an attorney and put a clause in our signed agreement "Null and void if she every agrees to marry me."
Life insurance proceeds are not an inheritance and I don't think could easily be addressed in a will. What you could do is set up trust for the life insurance proceeds and set parameters for the trust beneficiaries, but I think that's more of a hassle than just updating the insurance beneficiary amounts periodically -- easy to do online, as you say.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #591 on: July 18, 2016, 02:24:50 PM »
Earlier in the thread I related the house that mom left sis and I.
She's lived in it rent free for about 4 years now. She's make little money
couldn't buy it or pay me rent if she had such an inclination.
  But after reading some of the the other posts, I have a question.
 I'd like get my name off the title for liability reasons, but I'm thinking
I'd like the house to go to me or my kids when she dies.
Is this reasonable to setup, I think I could push this without a
great problem because after few more years I will have forgiven as
many dollars as much as her value in the house.
 We both still expect another 20 to 25 years of life.

  No, I don't want to force a sale, sis has nothing and has lived in
a van, and would probably end up there again. I just think someone
on my side deserves something from the inheritance even if it's 25
years later!

Not a lawyer, but I thought that having your name on the title meant that you owned it (or part of it). Sounds like you might need an actual lawyer.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #592 on: July 18, 2016, 02:31:16 PM »
Earlier in the thread I related the house that mom left sis and I.
She's lived in it rent free for about 4 years now. She's make little money
couldn't buy it or pay me rent if she had such an inclination.
  But after reading some of the the other posts, I have a question.
 I'd like get my name off the title for liability reasons, but I'm thinking
I'd like the house to go to me or my kids when she dies.
Is this reasonable to setup, I think I could push this without a
great problem because after few more years I will have forgiven as
many dollars as much as her value in the house.
 We both still expect another 20 to 25 years of life.

  No, I don't want to force a sale, sis has nothing and has lived in
a van, and would probably end up there again. I just think someone
on my side deserves something from the inheritance even if it's 25
years later!

Not a lawyer, but I thought that having your name on the title meant that you owned it (or part of it). Sounds like you might need an actual lawyer.

Just relying on her to give you her share in a will is risky because she could always change it.  You need a lawyer to set it up so she has a life interest in the house, but you retain remainder rights to it after her death.  Also consider how taxes and insurance will be paid if she's low income.

dcamnc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #593 on: July 18, 2016, 06:58:31 PM »
My grandmother was pretty well off, and had lots of investments. She was leaving all of us some inheritance. No real drama, because she had her shit together, and had arranged everything in advance. Grandma was on point with her will stuff.

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #594 on: July 18, 2016, 10:35:29 PM »
I have a story to share...  Well, it is DH's story.  You see, his dad died when he was young, leaving a sister parents, him, and a widow.

Grandparents were always in DH's life, from babysitting while mom worked, to fishing, etc...   So after we were married, we made a point to travel to see them about once a year, sometimes 2x per year.   We were 22-30 at this time, so using up a week of vacation to go drive to visit elderly grand parent -in-laws was not really that exciting, but we were glad to see them.

Well, life got pretty busy for us with small children, a move to California (now to far to travel to see them), and then DH was sick with mono for a year...   Meanwhile, we could never get through on Grandpa's phone, so no contact with him for 2 years, and never followed up that diligently either...

So when grandpa passed away a couple of years ago, we had a bit of shock to learn that DH's Aunt had previously moved him to a care facility nearer to her (great!) but never called us so we could have a chance to see him --as the new city was one we did go to sometimes--, and worst of all, upon death decided to hold no funeral (Grandpa was depressed in the last years, and we knew this was likely his wish), but did not even call DH to say that grandpa had passed away.  We found out because another elderly relative (other side of family) reads the obits put out by funeral homes  -- read that it stated "no funeral", and had posted a few details about his life / family and recognized him and let us know.

As DH had been adopted by another man some 15 years before, (mom remarried) the sole inheritor by intestate rules would have been DH's aunt.. but man, it is so odd because Grandpa used to talk about his will sometimes to us (but not about money in it), and it seems so strange that DH and his great grandkids would have been deliberately cut out.   We are surmising in the best possible way that there was no money left, even after grandpa's home was sold....(the care facility would have cost close to the government monthly stipend, so not drawn from his personal monies, except for the transfer and for clothing).   At the end of it all, all DH only really wanted a small decorative wooden tray his dad had made before he died... that grandpa had treasured more than anything else, and kept with him.  Ugh.  Probably put into the trash.

What do you do when relatives don't even have the courtesy to tell the only other direct descendant that the patriarch was moved to a care home and then that he died a year later?      Especially if there is hints that this was done to mask plundering of any remaining accounts (using power of attorney / joint banking, etc)?


By your own words, you say your husband got too busy and made no effort to stay in basic contact with his grandfather and after trying by phone and having it be disconnected (?) you didn't try other attempts (mail? other relatives? go visit?). You moved away, ceased all contact and apparently did not even write letters or send cards, because if you did, likely someone would have written you back to let you know where he ended up. 

Looking at if from the other side:

Grandfather was probably sad and hurt but realized that was your husband's decision to cut him out of his life for some reason, and moved on and stopped thinking about him. His daughter who was there and likely a much closer relationship, took care of him and had to step in and deal with his taxes and bills and other day to day as he aged and became more feeble, and she would have needed the power of attorney and to be on a joint account to make things easy for her to take care of the things as needed (this is not in any way suspicious unless she has a history of being dishonest or evil - it is VERY common). Who is doing all this "hinting" that grandfather's accounts were being plundered? You haven't been in contact with that side of the family in years, right?

The daughter did inform everyone the best she could by placing a public obituary - that's what those things are for. I think it is very unrealistic to have expected her to put her own grief and dealing with the mess of closing an estate aside to try to track down and personally contact an estranged relative (your husband) who had moved out of the area and had lost contact with his grandfather for YEARS, and likely she herself had no contact info for, especially right after her own father's death.

So it's a little sad, but what one should expect if you let the relationship die away and make no effort at all.

Sorry for the late reply...  I can see how you would think that, and some of it is true.

We did send a few letters, left messages, etc.

Auntie was also in a different city and rarely saw grandpa as well.  I think a friend of his locally, who we met every time we visited,  called her up when grandpa was having trouble, but that friend did not have our contact info, and Auntie was the closest "mature" relative to contact, anyway.  Auntie was the one who broke off contact with us, years before.  Just sort of faded away...

You are right that DH "ended" or put off contact other than letter and calls.   But in this day and age, for a younger grandson who moves to another country and is starting a young family, to not put additional effort into reaching grandpa (who was increasingly senile) for a few years is not really unusual.   I don't know many that actually do call grandma / grandpa on their own, really...  I am sure you call/ see your grandparents, but it is increasingly rare.

The obit was not initiated by auntie, but by the care facility that he lived in. They put a free one on their website / blog? for everyone who was in their care at some point.  Nothing made it to the paper...  I think our friend / relative that saw it, only saw a note with web address where to find the facility's overall blog posting, then started to check that one out regularly, too.

We were in contact (physical / visiting) grandpa withing 2-3 years of his passing, then just the mail / phone calls that were unanswered. DH was ok with that at the time, though maybe he could have tried harder, but I think the next step may have been to call the police to check on grandpa.

We weren't too shocked by the outcome,given our communication lapse,  but saddened that Auntie who did have DH's number and DH's parent's number (but we did not have hers) never thought to call at all. 

ETA:  The part that keeps me gnawing at it, is not about the money, as I think there would be very little... it is the logic -- that we knew that a will existed, and as executrix, she would have needed to attempt to contact all the named beneficiaries...but we were never contacted and the will was never put through probate, so

1)  Grandpa and grandma lied to us about a will (discussed before grandma died)
2)  Grandpa changed his will (or invalidated it) to exclude his grandson after he started to become senile
3)  She hid the fact that a will existed / ignored it out of convenience.
Given the history, I am leaning towards the last one.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 10:56:04 PM by goldielocks »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #595 on: July 18, 2016, 11:07:20 PM »
Earlier in the thread I related the house that mom left sis and I.
She's lived in it rent free for about 4 years now. She's make little money
couldn't buy it or pay me rent if she had such an inclination.
  But after reading some of the the other posts, I have a question.
 I'd like get my name off the title for liability reasons, but I'm thinking
I'd like the house to go to me or my kids when she dies.
Is this reasonable to setup, I think I could push this without a
great problem because after few more years I will have forgiven as
many dollars as much as her value in the house.
 We both still expect another 20 to 25 years of life.

  No, I don't want to force a sale, sis has nothing and has lived in
a van, and would probably end up there again. I just think someone
on my side deserves something from the inheritance even if it's 25
years later!

Not a lawyer, but I thought that having your name on the title meant that you owned it (or part of it). Sounds like you might need an actual lawyer.

Just relying on her to give you her share in a will is risky because she could always change it.  You need a lawyer to set it up so she has a life interest in the house, but you retain remainder rights to it after her death.  Also consider how taxes and insurance will be paid if she's low income.

Why not execute a sale agreement to your sister?  Make it her house with a note outstanding to you for your half of the current value.  Establish a very long term with a very low interest rate, no payment, and the very low interest adds to the principal owed (in line with the expected appreciation of the house).  She pays nothing, and if she dies, you or your children inherit the receivable.  The house can be sold out of her estate to satisfy the note.  Or she could choose to pay it off early, and you get your half of the house before she passes.  This way you have a security interest in the house, but you don't "own" it.  You address your concern about liability, ensure you get some value out of the house (your inheritance), and avoid increasing your sister's cost as it sounds like she couldn't afford to buy you out anyway.  The big concern, of course, is that if she doesn't take care of the house, it may not be worth much in 20-25 years, but presumably the land underneath it would still have some value.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #596 on: July 18, 2016, 11:24:08 PM »
We weren't too shocked by the outcome,given our communication lapse,  but saddened that Auntie who did have DH's number and DH's parent's number (but we did not have hers) never thought to call at all. 

My whole life I have been very close with my great-aunt and uncle on my dad's side, I think mostly because my dad's mom died when he was very young and his dad basically abandoned his kids for a new woman, so this great-aunt and uncle were very much like my dad's parents.  Anyhow, my dad has controlling tendencies, and one of these is that he always wanted to be the direct point of contact with that whole side of the family.  For example, every time I wanted to visit them, like when I came home on college break, I was supposed to ask my dad to call them and check on scheduling.  Even though I had their phone numbers and mailed them cards and such, it would have been (unreasonably) offensive to my dad to not go through him for in-person visits.

Anyway, both my great-aunt and uncle got very sick around the same time and were moved into the same facility.  We had thought that great-uncle was worse off, and I was having pretty regular calls with them, my cousins (their kids), and my dad.  One week I had to go on an extremely demanding business trip and was getting about 1-2 hours of sleep per night to the point that I had a call with my dad on Friday night that I essentially have no recollection of because I was falling over from sleep deprivation and telling him I'd have to talk to him after I got back from my work trip.  (Another aspect of his narcissism is demanding phone calls whenever he wants them for however long he wants them so that he can ramble on and on.)   So, work trip ends on Sunday, I go back to the office, where it is a week-from-hell, especially with my bully boss, and I'm still working around the clock.  Wednesday comes and I get a weird text from my mom to call her ASAP.  My two parents were in a hearing for their divorce and it was disclosed to the judge that my dad couldn't be available the next day because he had to go to such-and-such area of the state for a funeral.  Mom gets very concerned because she is also very close to great-aunt and uncle, and she looks up online fearing that she may find uncle has passed away.  But no, it was great-aunt who passed away that Sunday.

Dad found out the news on Sunday and was supposed to have told me, mom, and my brothers, but out of spite he did not.  Spite to my mom due to their divorce (he didn't think she deserved half because he was the higher income earner and he's selfish).  As for me, I later got a text from my dad after the funeral that was something like, "Just went to your Aunt Mertle's funeral.  She died."  I later confronted him about why he didn't tell me about it when he found out so that I could have been there and that I was so hurt he didn't tell me.  His answer, which to this day he maintains is justified, is that I did not call him back on Monday after I got home from my work trip, so obviously I did not care enough to know what was going on with him and the family.  Of course, the rest of the family was horrified when they found out that dad withheld the info from us.  Now we don't care about dad's rule and just always communicate directly.

No inheritance component -- just a family member being a jerk about a loved one's death.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 11:27:45 PM by LeRainDrop »

kayvent

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #597 on: July 19, 2016, 04:41:27 AM »
We weren't too shocked by the outcome,given our communication lapse,  but saddened that Auntie who did have DH's number and DH's parent's number (but we did not have hers) never thought to call at all. 

My whole life I have been very close with my great-aunt and uncle on my dad's side, I think mostly because my dad's mom died when he was very young and his dad basically abandoned his kids for a new woman, so this great-aunt and uncle were very much like my dad's parents.  Anyhow, my dad has controlling tendencies, and one of these is that he always wanted to be the direct point of contact with that whole side of the family.  For example, every time I wanted to visit them, like when I came home on college break, I was supposed to ask my dad to call them and check on scheduling.  Even though I had their phone numbers and mailed them cards and such, it would have been (unreasonably) offensive to my dad to not go through him for in-person visits.

Anyway, both my great-aunt and uncle got very sick around the same time and were moved into the same facility.  We had thought that great-uncle was worse off, and I was having pretty regular calls with them, my cousins (their kids), and my dad.  One week I had to go on an extremely demanding business trip and was getting about 1-2 hours of sleep per night to the point that I had a call with my dad on Friday night that I essentially have no recollection of because I was falling over from sleep deprivation and telling him I'd have to talk to him after I got back from my work trip.  (Another aspect of his narcissism is demanding phone calls whenever he wants them for however long he wants them so that he can ramble on and on.)   So, work trip ends on Sunday, I go back to the office, where it is a week-from-hell, especially with my bully boss, and I'm still working around the clock.  Wednesday comes and I get a weird text from my mom to call her ASAP.  My two parents were in a hearing for their divorce and it was disclosed to the judge that my dad couldn't be available the next day because he had to go to such-and-such area of the state for a funeral.  Mom gets very concerned because she is also very close to great-aunt and uncle, and she looks up online fearing that she may find uncle has passed away.  But no, it was great-aunt who passed away that Sunday.

Dad found out the news on Sunday and was supposed to have told me, mom, and my brothers, but out of spite he did not.  Spite to my mom due to their divorce (he didn't think she deserved half because he was the higher income earner and he's selfish).  As for me, I later got a text from my dad after the funeral that was something like, "Just went to your Aunt Mertle's funeral.  She died."  I later confronted him about why he didn't tell me about it when he found out so that I could have been there and that I was so hurt he didn't tell me.  His answer, which to this day he maintains is justified, is that I did not call him back on Monday after I got home from my work trip, so obviously I did not care enough to know what was going on with him and the family.  Of course, the rest of the family was horrified when they found out that dad withheld the info from us.  Now we don't care about dad's rule and just always communicate directly.

No inheritance component -- just a family member being a jerk about a loved one's death.

Gasp. At first, and I apologize, I read "controlling tendencies" and dismissed it. 'Cause even the more liberal parents can be seen to have controlling tendencies. But then I kept reading. Gulp. And kept reading. Wide-eyed. No other words can describe my reaction to your story.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #598 on: July 19, 2016, 06:04:50 AM »

ETA:  The part that keeps me gnawing at it, is not about the money, as I think there would be very little... it is the logic -- that we knew that a will existed, and as executrix, she would have needed to attempt to contact all the named beneficiaries...but we were never contacted and the will was never put through probate, so

1)  Grandpa and grandma lied to us about a will (discussed before grandma died)
2)  Grandpa changed his will (or invalidated it) to exclude his grandson after he started to become senile
3)  She hid the fact that a will existed / ignored it out of convenience.
Given the history, I am leaning towards the last one.

Or the place was a mess and she never found the will.

Making Cookies

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #599 on: July 19, 2016, 07:53:16 AM »
A friend once told us "you get to your twenties and realize the whole damn family is crazy..." ;)

The older I get the more I realize well-adjusted and reliable must be pretty rare qualities in people...

I hope life delivers more of what you want from life LeRainDrop. You've certainly been tested enough.