Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 532127 times)

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1450 on: October 24, 2018, 08:26:42 AM »
If she were hiding her own assets then I could see how that was fraud.  Since the money was never legally hers, I don't see how this is fraud.  I know of a situation right now where a guy is being charged criminally with causing the death of someone during the commission of another crime.  The family is likely to sue him civilly as well.  He has no money of his own, but comes from a well-off family.  His family's wills have now been changed to pass any share of his parents' estates to his kids rather than to him, essentially making him judgement proof.  I don't see how this is any different. 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1451 on: October 24, 2018, 11:29:59 AM »
If she were hiding her own assets then I could see how that was fraud.  Since the money was never legally hers, I don't see how this is fraud.  I know of a situation right now where a guy is being charged criminally with causing the death of someone during the commission of another crime.  The family is likely to sue him civilly as well.  He has no money of his own, but comes from a well-off family.  His family's wills have now been changed to pass any share of his parents' estates to his kids rather than to him, essentially making him judgement proof.  I don't see how this is any different.

The mom isn't the one committing the fraud single-handedly. It's a joint decision between the grandma, the mom, and the participating kids.

In the case of the guy with criminal charges, they aren't making *him* judgement-proof, because the courts can award pretty much anything they choose. However the *family money* is being protected from at least some of the consequences of his stupid behavior... yet the parents had better cover their rumps well if they plan to leave him less or nothing, because it's fairly common for heirs who are passed over to lawyer up and sue the other heirs after the fact.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1452 on: October 24, 2018, 11:57:35 AM »
What she and the MIL did was fraudulent... and while I'm glad bankruptcy exists for people who genuinely need it, I don't applaud what the mother and MIL did here.  I bet the courts don't, either.
Illegal, sure, but what is the point of throwing additional family money into the pit? The lenders calculated the defaulting risks and adjusted the interest accordingly, so unless the women advertised the inheritance as some sort of security, no one was betrayed here.


How is it illegal?  My reading of the story is that the woman's mother changed her will of her own accord so as not to leave any money to her.  Anyone can change their will at any time.  There is no "right to inherit" until someone dies - there is no prospective right to an inheritance which can be enforced in court, for instance to stop someone changing their will.  Is their?  So if the woman never had a right to her mother's money, how could her debtors have any right to it?  And if the debtors had no rights, there can be no fraud.


If the woman had the money and gave it away, sure.  Or if her mother had already died and the woman refused the inheritance she was due under the will, also legally not on, under bankruptcy laws.  But someone's parent choosing to change their will before they died?  I don't see the legal problem.

It's illegal because the will was changed entirely to avoid having that money available to creditors and yet the inheritance to the kids wasn't supposed to be real because they were supposed to funnel it back to mom.  They were expected to hold the money while mom's bankruptcy was finalized, then give it back, basically hiding it from creditors and the bankruptcy courts.  It would be like a man having a friend hide his collection of fancy watches or a woman hide expensive jewels during divorce proceedings, then getting them back when they were no longer subject to community property divisions.  The point is to mislead and hide assets, and thus it is fraudulent.

Changing the will to leave money to the kids instead of the mom isn't illegal.  Doing to for the purposes of hiding the money from courts and creditors, and with the expectation that it be returned when the danger of having it seized was over, almost certainly is illegal.  The money was still supposed to go to mom, just in a way that hid it from creditors.

Right.  But a person administering a bankruptcy only has the right to assets of the bankrupt, and the mother's money was never an asset of the bankrupt at any point.  So how was there any right at any time for the person administering the bankrupt to stop the mother from doing whatever she wanted to?  If there had been a formal trust in the will for the benefit of the bankrupt then as soon as the mother died there would have been an asset to go into the bankruptcy.  But if it was only an informal set of wishes that the grandchildren should pass the money back to the mother not amounting to anything which was a legal trust, surely not.  And given that two of the grandchildren ignored the wishes and took the money, it does seem that it was just a wish, not a legally enforceable trust that the bankruptcy administrator could have got their hands on.

onlykelsey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1453 on: October 24, 2018, 12:04:51 PM »
What she and the MIL did was fraudulent... and while I'm glad bankruptcy exists for people who genuinely need it, I don't applaud what the mother and MIL did here.  I bet the courts don't, either.
Illegal, sure, but what is the point of throwing additional family money into the pit? The lenders calculated the defaulting risks and adjusted the interest accordingly, so unless the women advertised the inheritance as some sort of security, no one was betrayed here.


How is it illegal?  My reading of the story is that the woman's mother changed her will of her own accord so as not to leave any money to her.  Anyone can change their will at any time.  There is no "right to inherit" until someone dies - there is no prospective right to an inheritance which can be enforced in court, for instance to stop someone changing their will.  Is their?  So if the woman never had a right to her mother's money, how could her debtors have any right to it?  And if the debtors had no rights, there can be no fraud.


If the woman had the money and gave it away, sure.  Or if her mother had already died and the woman refused the inheritance she was due under the will, also legally not on, under bankruptcy laws.  But someone's parent choosing to change their will before they died?  I don't see the legal problem.

It's illegal because the will was changed entirely to avoid having that money available to creditors and yet the inheritance to the kids wasn't supposed to be real because they were supposed to funnel it back to mom.  They were expected to hold the money while mom's bankruptcy was finalized, then give it back, basically hiding it from creditors and the bankruptcy courts.  It would be like a man having a friend hide his collection of fancy watches or a woman hide expensive jewels during divorce proceedings, then getting them back when they were no longer subject to community property divisions.  The point is to mislead and hide assets, and thus it is fraudulent.

Changing the will to leave money to the kids instead of the mom isn't illegal.  Doing to for the purposes of hiding the money from courts and creditors, and with the expectation that it be returned when the danger of having it seized was over, almost certainly is illegal.  The money was still supposed to go to mom, just in a way that hid it from creditors.

Right.  But a person administering a bankruptcy only has the right to assets of the bankrupt, and the mother's money was never an asset of the bankrupt at any point.  So how was there any right at any time for the person administering the bankrupt to stop the mother from doing whatever she wanted to?  If there had been a formal trust in the will for the benefit of the bankrupt then as soon as the mother died there would have been an asset to go into the bankruptcy.  But if it was only an informal set of wishes that the grandchildren should pass the money back to the mother not amounting to anything which was a legal trust, surely not.  And given that two of the grandchildren ignored the wishes and took the money, it does seem that it was just a wish, not a legally enforceable trust that the bankruptcy administrator could have got their hands on.
I think you're right that it isn't actual fraud under 541(a) because of the definition of "property" to include rights to inheritance within 180 days after filing and the mom didn't die here.  It still seems like there'd be a constructive fraud case here.  To get federal benefits they would definitely be looking at this.

Regardless, it's sort of schadenfreude, but I feel like the mom sort of got what she deserved when kids refused to participate in her ploy, even if it was ultimately for their own gain.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1454 on: October 24, 2018, 05:16:03 PM »
How is it illegal?  My reading of the story is that the woman's mother changed her will of her own accord so as not to leave any money to her.  Anyone can change their will at any time.  There is no "right to inherit" until someone dies - there is no prospective right to an inheritance which can be enforced in court, for instance to stop someone changing their will.  Is their?  So if the woman never had a right to her mother's money, how could her debtors have any right to it?  And if the debtors had no rights, there can be no fraud.

If the woman had the money and gave it away, sure.  Or if her mother had already died and the woman refused the inheritance she was due under the will, also legally not on, under bankruptcy laws.  But someone's parent choosing to change their will before they died?  I don't see the legal problem.
I'm having the same trouble squaring that circle as well.  I have no issue with discussing the moral angle, but I fail to see how it's illegal.  If I stated my intention to donate money to a charity, and then found out that they were about to enter bankruptcy, would it also be illegal to change my mind and not donate to them?
Conspiracy is generally illegal. Any time you ned to keep something secret in order to get an advantage over a third party, you probably are breaking the law. Do you think this lady is the smartest woman ever and invented a new way to hide assets? Everything was legal up to the point where there was an agreement that the money was to be returned to the mom. As soon as that agreement was made, it was a conspiracy and gets dodgy.


Laws are simple, if you think you're being clever, theres a law somewhere that will come out and smack you. There is a golden rule that underlies most laws; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The USA has a lot of laws that you don't need to be aware of; you just need to treat people honestly.

Flip the scenario around; what if you were the creditor and found out about all these agreements that were designed to screw you? Would you take it lying down or want your money? I would feel screwed and be angry if someone tried this on me.

Maybe I'm wrong and there isn't a law, thats what Civil court is for. That's a catch all for dodgy acts, you can be perfectly legal and still lose.

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1455 on: October 24, 2018, 06:46:56 PM »
The USA has a lot of laws that you don't need to be aware of; you just need to treat people honestly.

You will make a TERRIBLE rich person.

The whole point of being rich is to find ways to shield your money.  Rich people use a million different schemes of questionable legality, knowing it is dishonest to do so.  Look at Donald Trump's businesses, for example; that guy has always been shady as shit and yet he is, just barely, on the right side of the law.  Defrauding your creditors doesn't even rise the level of a violation, in that world, it's almost assumed.

Rich people own assets through corporations, and then own other corporations to pay themselves through their original corporations.  They hire their children and distribute income to tax-advantaged accounts.  They take out loans of other people's money and then declare the interest as losses against their personal income even though the payments are made with other people's money.  All of their travel is tax deductible.  All of their properties are owned through intermediary trusts designed to shield them from litigation.  This is what being rich means, it means finding just-barely-legal ways to constantly get more and more rich.  Do unto others?  They only do unto themselves, screw everyone else.

Careful estate planning to avoid losing assets to a bankruptcy court is just normal business for rich families.  Their accountant would be negligent NOT to advise them to change the will to shield these assets.  If I was their accountant, I would probably go a step farther and suggest swapping business asset ownership to concentrate as many failing books as possible in the possession of the one person who is going through bankruptcy.  Might as well offload your losers and salvage the winners that would otherwise be used to pay her creditors, right?  The Trumps certainly do it, and if it's good enough for the pussy grabber in chief, isn't it good enough for us little guys?  Romney did it.  The Bushes and Clintons both did it.  I expect the Obamas will do it in the future, now that they are finally getting rich. 

It's all warm and fuzzy to have ideals, but capitalism thrives on natural selection.  People who learn to most effectively bend the rules are the ones who get the richest.  People who follow all the rules never thrive quite as well, and are eventually left behind.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1456 on: October 24, 2018, 09:14:39 PM »
Sol's got it figured out.  Everybody could be rich if they'd just learn to bend the rules. 


My granddad used to say "It's a lot easier to make money than it is to keep it.".




Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1457 on: October 25, 2018, 12:49:20 AM »
If she were hiding her own assets then I could see how that was fraud.  Since the money was never legally hers, I don't see how this is fraud.  I know of a situation right now where a guy is being charged criminally with causing the death of someone during the commission of another crime.  The family is likely to sue him civilly as well.  He has no money of his own, but comes from a well-off family.  His family's wills have now been changed to pass any share of his parents' estates to his kids rather than to him, essentially making him judgement proof.  I don't see how this is any different.

And if the true intention is for the kids to have and keep the money, then yes, there is no fraud.  But that's where your example and that situation are different.  In the original situation, the money never was truly for the kids.  It was for the mom, but the kids were supposed to hold it until the danger was over, then give it back to the mom.

To go back to my example, it's not illegal for my bet friend to gift me all of her jewels.  It is probably illegal for him to give them to me to stash in my jewelry draw and say they are mine, until her divorce is settled (and her husband can't take 50% of them) and then give them back to her.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1458 on: October 25, 2018, 02:28:42 AM »
If she were hiding her own assets then I could see how that was fraud.  Since the money was never legally hers, I don't see how this is fraud.  I know of a situation right now where a guy is being charged criminally with causing the death of someone during the commission of another crime.  The family is likely to sue him civilly as well.  He has no money of his own, but comes from a well-off family.  His family's wills have now been changed to pass any share of his parents' estates to his kids rather than to him, essentially making him judgement proof.  I don't see how this is any different.

And if the true intention is for the kids to have and keep the money, then yes, there is no fraud.  But that's where your example and that situation are different.  In the original situation, the money never was truly for the kids.  It was for the mom, but the kids were supposed to hold it until the danger was over, then give it back to the mom.

To go back to my example, it's not illegal for my bet friend to gift me all of her jewels.  It is probably illegal for him to give them to me to stash in my jewelry draw and say they are mine, until her divorce is settled (and her husband can't take 50% of them) and then give them back to her.

The difference in your example is that the jewels belonged to the bankrupt friend and were never legally given to you, so yes, clearly still assets in the bankruptcy and fraudulent behaviour on both your parts.

In the example case, the mother never had any legal right to the assets - if she had, the two kids couldn't have kept and spent the money.  If the mother had a legal interest in the assets and the children had a legal obligation to hand them over after the bankruptcy, again fraud.  It's the mother's lack of any legal interest under the grandmother's will that makes the difference - the bankruptcy administrator can't collect on family feelings and presumed "good" family behaviour. 

I am, for once and probably once only, with the spendypants grandkids on this one - except that I would have preferred them to invest the money in index funds or property, obviously.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1459 on: October 25, 2018, 06:20:38 AM »
We've be discussing this stiuation about the grandmother skipping the bankrupt daughter for post after post and we don't even know the amount we're talking about. The OP only said it was "a decent sum of money".  That's not a specific amount.  It could have been $20K or $2M.  It's likely that it wasn't really a large sum anyway, because of the way it was handled. 


Our "collective hourly fees" have likely surpassed the value of granny's estate.  <grin> 

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1460 on: October 25, 2018, 08:07:43 AM »
What's significant can totally change situation-by-situation.

My 71-yo mother just informed me that her uncle has modified his will specifically to exclude three biological children and make her a beneficiary. She characterized it as a $90,000 estate, which really won't move the needle for my own parents wrt retirement planning. But there are ample stories on this thread of people behaving ridiculously over smaller sums of money than that.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1461 on: October 25, 2018, 09:15:30 AM »
The USA has a lot of laws that you don't need to be aware of; you just need to treat people honestly.

You will make a TERRIBLE rich person.
Thank you, its a nice compliment to be a terrible rich person in todays world. (it really is a nice thing to say).

I will also not worry about jail time, lawsuits or being reviled by half the world. I don't aspire to be the pussy grabber in chief of the USA, history will not remember me but at least it won't remember a moniker so repulsive. Heck, I even wonder how much richer Trump would be if people trusted him and he was honest? There's a lot of indicators that he would have been even more sucessful if he was a better person, if he was a nice guy I bet he'd get a second term and his kids would be president too. I thik his biggest impediment to the repeat is himself, usually its the policies, which no one seems to even notice in the twitter verse.

I somewhat disagree though, lots of rich people are also nice. The problem is that we don't discuss the good guys, only the bad ones. How did Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Bernard Arnault and Mark Zuckerberg (pulled from wiki) cheat their way to the 2018 top 5 list of Forbes richest? Its probably harder being honest, but it doesn't mean its impossible to do it. Are my examples flawed? Most likely, but I don't keep a list of nice rich people handy. I'll toss Sol on my list of nice rich people though, I'm quite certain I could hand him my wallet full of cash and he would return it a week later, untouched.

Its your country though, all we can do is encourage each other to be what we desire. If the legal courts don't work I encourage the public court to come down on these people. Condoning poor behaviour as an acceptable action because its legal is lending your support to the behaviour. Once society accepts its okay to conspire as long as you come out ahead and we devolve to discussing if its legal, we can all enjoy the race to the bottom.

I still think its conspiracy to commit fraud though. The actions of two children appear to be an attempt to circumvent bankruptcy rules. The court would have to decide if it was premeditated actions (including mother and grandmother) or a gift to get her back on her feet. If there was an agreement in place the difficulty is in proving that she had an "interest" in the money, that there was an agreement. Before a bankruptcy can be discharged all interests must be disclosed, otherwise it can be reopened. Is it worth the effort? Not very likely.  There is a rule about suing people, never sue poor people, even if the bank wins she wouldn't have any assets to settle with so its just an academic question. You can 100% win a court case and still lose on the collections. I'm faced with that prospect right now, I'm owed a very small sum by a broke person, even if I win I won't see any money.

87tweetybirds

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1462 on: October 30, 2018, 06:55:53 AM »
I've got one;
My great-grandfather(GGpa) was a farmer, he owned approximately 160 acres. My grandfather(his son Gpa A) and great uncle (Uncle S) both worked with him for a while, but both had families, and GGpa didn't pay them anything to work with him. Gpa A made barely enough money on the side trapping (this is 1950s, 60s) during the winter to get by, but uncle S and his wife were unhappy with this arrangement (no blaming them there) and much to GGpa's disappointment decided to move 3 hours away and buy their own farm. Gpa A stayed, and as GGPa got older took over the actual running of the farm, and care of GGpa. When GGpa died he left the farm to Gpa A. Gpa A found it to be unjust and offered part of the farm to Uncle S. Unlce S, apparently a pretty good guy, declined saying Gpa A was the one who was farming it, and to split it would make it very difficult for Gpa A to farm it.
Year later, after all but 20 acres was locked into an LLC that was the official farm owned by Gpa A, and his 2 sons, Uncle S died. Land in this area had become quite valuable, and one of Uncle S's son's asked Gpa A for the land he had offered Uncle S years ago. Gpa A told him he couldn't give him what he'd offered uncle S, but if he'd like to build a home on part of the 20 acres (set up to be the inheritance of Gpa A's 5 children) he'd give him 2 acres. Cousin accepted and instead of building on the land like he had led Gpa A to believe promptly sold the land to a gentleman who had been lusting after the property for a while.
Gpa A was very disappointed, property developer was disappointed as he for some reason thought that having 2 acres would give him inroads to owing the rest of the property, and because he didn't want to just build a home on it, the land still sits there, growing weeds while the adjacent acres are farmed.
However, I think in-part because of this story when Gma A died(6 years after Gpa A) there wasn't fighting over possessions, in fact 6 years after Gma A's death the estate is still in process of being divided (no one really wants to sell it to developers, one sibling has a spend thrift spouse with Alzheimers and is hoping to keep the inheritance out of his hands, the other had health issues and assistance would have been withdrawn had they had the $, etc). Fairly recently one of the siblings passed away, and his part of the inheritance will be divided as his will dictates. He had a share in the LLC, and the other 2 partners a few months before had agreed to buy him out in installments, and that agreement still holds with his heirs. And the belongings in the house were divided among the siblings, grandchildren and great grandchildren little at a time. I wasn't able to be there when she passed or come back for the funeral and wasn't able to make it back for a little over 6 months afterwards. My mother (her daughter in law) was still g on trying to get all the children and grandchildren to take what they wanted from the house, to be able to clean it out and prepare it for rental.

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1463 on: November 08, 2018, 03:30:53 AM »
This one is so anti-dramatic its kind of funny.

Grandpa passed away recently without a will or named beneficiaries. Grandma died several years ago. Both sons (my dad and uncle) passed away a few years ago. So that leaves the grandkids to claim the inheritance. The problem is that all the grandkids are financially quite stable and no one wants to submit the loads of paperwork required to claim approx. $8000. In fact, by the time expenses are deducted there may not be that much money left. An email just went around to the grandkids, and each and every grand kid wasnt like, No thanks, but if you want to do the work, you deserve the money. Im giving up my claim to the money.

So the government is probably going to end up getting an $8000 donation to their coffers.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1464 on: November 08, 2018, 07:01:14 AM »
This one is so anti-dramatic its kind of funny.

Grandpa passed away recently without a will or named beneficiaries. Grandma died several years ago. Both sons (my dad and uncle) passed away a few years ago. So that leaves the grandkids to claim the inheritance. The problem is that all the grandkids are financially quite stable and no one wants to submit the loads of paperwork required to claim approx. $8000. In fact, by the time expenses are deducted there may not be that much money left. An email just went around to the grandkids, and each and every grand kid wasnt like, No thanks, but if you want to do the work, you deserve the money. Im giving up my claim to the money.

So the government is probably going to end up getting an $8000 donation to their coffers.
Totally worth it, IMO. Yay for family harmony.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1465 on: November 08, 2018, 07:06:39 AM »
This one is so anti-dramatic its kind of funny.

Grandpa passed away recently without a will or named beneficiaries. Grandma died several years ago. Both sons (my dad and uncle) passed away a few years ago. So that leaves the grandkids to claim the inheritance. The problem is that all the grandkids are financially quite stable and no one wants to submit the loads of paperwork required to claim approx. $8000. In fact, by the time expenses are deducted there may not be that much money left. An email just went around to the grandkids, and each and every grand kid wasnt like, No thanks, but if you want to do the work, you deserve the money. Im giving up my claim to the money.

So the government is probably going to end up getting an $8000 donation to their coffers.




But they could buy $8000 worth of lottery tickets and win the Megga Million!  :)

radram

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1466 on: November 08, 2018, 07:12:01 AM »
This one is so anti-dramatic its kind of funny.

Grandpa passed away recently without a will or named beneficiaries. Grandma died several years ago. Both sons (my dad and uncle) passed away a few years ago. So that leaves the grandkids to claim the inheritance. The problem is that all the grandkids are financially quite stable and no one wants to submit the loads of paperwork required to claim approx. $8000. In fact, by the time expenses are deducted there may not be that much money left. An email just went around to the grandkids, and each and every grand kid wasnt like, No thanks, but if you want to do the work, you deserve the money. Im giving up my claim to the money.

So the government is probably going to end up getting an $8000 donation to their coffers.
Totally worth it, IMO. Yay for family harmony.

Great story, but please reconsider. Instead, choose a non-profit your grandpa would have respected and transfer it to them.

Think of it this way. How many hours did your grandpa work to get that money? Isn't it worth a few more hours to turn that hard work into something your grandfather would have found to be worth his time?

Buy some playground equipment and install it in a nearby park. Every time you walk by, you will have great memories of your grandfather. Just 1 idea.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1467 on: November 08, 2018, 10:26:00 AM »
Ooh, I have one.  I was contacted by an acquaintance that heard I was good at finding people (through Ancestry website, and on line searches).

It appears that the government contacted her when her cousin died without a will.  They assigned a government person to clear the estate / debts, final tax return and pay funeral expenses. They want her to locate the heirs / relatives to help with dispersal of the estate.

The problem is that there is one younger brother, who moved to the US from Canada around the age of 22 when their dad died in 1977.   The mom also passed in 2003.  The brother had not been heard from by any other family since he moved to the USA.

Given a not-too common name for someone we estimated as age 65, I think I found him.   AND, I found evidence that the mom was one of 21 brothers and sisters.  OMG.  There are likely over 50 first cousins out there... just on the maternal side, plus more on the paternal side (I could only find evidence of the father, who I think was born in another country, but nothing on the father's family).   

The estate has about $30k in it, she thinks, maybe more.

My friend is trying to get ahold of the person I found, although any listed numbers are now old and out of service.  She has no intention of doing anything more than trying to find the brother to let him know his sister died and how to claim any funds.  I suggested the next step was to send a letter to each of the last 3 known addresses, and be done with it.  (It may not be him after all).


If she can't find the brother, she will just let the remaining $30k+ go to the government.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1468 on: November 08, 2018, 02:08:27 PM »
My grandfather's brother moved to California and worked for Ames Aeronautical Laboratory in the early 50's. He died relatively young (age 51) (long story), but my Mom did know he had a wife and at least one child. Anyways my alcoholic uncle who has the same first and last name Grandfather, happen to mention to my mom (his sister) about a decade ago, that he got a call from someone in California who was a relative and was trying to track down his (great uncle's) relatives. My mother was excited to hear from that side of the family and asked the outcome, and uncle said, I just hung up, I assumed it was a scam. I guess we will never know what that was about. It would be nice to fantasize it was about some long lost inheritance.   Ooh I figured out the timing. found obituary of my great uncle's wife, who died in 2010. The phone call was probably when she died, and perhaps her daughters were trying to get ahold of my grandfather...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 02:22:31 PM by partgypsy »

charis

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1469 on: November 08, 2018, 02:55:22 PM »
Ooh, I have one.  I was contacted by an acquaintance that heard I was good at finding people (through Ancestry website, and on line searches).

It appears that the government contacted her when her cousin died without a will.  They assigned a government person to clear the estate / debts, final tax return and pay funeral expenses. They want her to locate the heirs / relatives to help with dispersal of the estate.

The problem is that there is one younger brother, who moved to the US from Canada around the age of 22 when their dad died in 1977.   The mom also passed in 2003.  The brother had not been heard from by any other family since he moved to the USA.

Given a not-too common name for someone we estimated as age 65, I think I found him.   AND, I found evidence that the mom was one of 21 brothers and sisters.  OMG.  There are likely over 50 first cousins out there... just on the maternal side, plus more on the paternal side (I could only find evidence of the father, who I think was born in another country, but nothing on the father's family).   

The estate has about $30k in it, she thinks, maybe more.

My friend is trying to get ahold of the person I found, although any listed numbers are now old and out of service.  She has no intention of doing anything more than trying to find the brother to let him know his sister died and how to claim any funds.  I suggested the next step was to send a letter to each of the last 3 known addresses, and be done with it.  (It may not be him after all).


If she can't find the brother, she will just let the remaining $30k+ go to the government.

Can she do that?  If the brother cannot be found, why is she entitled to decline the money on behalf other heirs?

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1470 on: November 08, 2018, 03:23:54 PM »
That's how the inheritance rules work when there is no will-- they go to progeny, then to parents, then to siblings.

Cousins don't need to be tracked down,  although if they come forward they could legitimately inherit...in the absence of any others with a larger claim...  oh, and she is not the executrix, rather a cousin that was asked by the government-appointed executor to help track down relatives..

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1471 on: November 09, 2018, 01:50:57 AM »
This one is so anti-dramatic its kind of funny.

Grandpa passed away recently without a will or named beneficiaries. Grandma died several years ago. Both sons (my dad and uncle) passed away a few years ago. So that leaves the grandkids to claim the inheritance. The problem is that all the grandkids are financially quite stable and no one wants to submit the loads of paperwork required to claim approx. $8000. In fact, by the time expenses are deducted there may not be that much money left. An email just went around to the grandkids, and each and every grand kid wasnt like, No thanks, but if you want to do the work, you deserve the money. Im giving up my claim to the money.

So the government is probably going to end up getting an $8000 donation to their coffers.
Totally worth it, IMO. Yay for family harmony.

Great story, but please reconsider. Instead, choose a non-profit your grandpa would have respected and transfer it to them.

Think of it this way. How many hours did your grandpa work to get that money? Isn't it worth a few more hours to turn that hard work into something your grandfather would have found to be worth his time?

Buy some playground equipment and install it in a nearby park. Every time you walk by, you will have great memories of your grandfather. Just 1 idea.

Several thousand in other bank accounts that were accessible have already been donated. These were two remaining accounts. To do the work to access the money would likely cost over $10K -- this money is located in two small accounts on the other side of the world, and the paperwork would span four countries and involve lawyers and consulates and 15-hour flights. It's a lot more than a "few more hours" of work.

Not Sure

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1472 on: Today at 09:17:14 AM »
I thought it appropriate to add some levity to this thread.

Mom inherited a sugar cookie recipe with instructions that it was to STAY IN THE FAMILY.  This became problematic when a dear friend and fellow cook, Julia, requested the recipe.  Mom told the story and refused to share the recipe.

Turnabout is fair play and Julia had a recipe for mustard that was the envy of everyone.  Julia succumbed to cancer and never did get around to sharing that mustard recipe with Mom.

I suspect that some feelings were genuinely hurt by this which is too bad because it is otherwise a great story!

PS.  Julia was a professional cook and may not have been at liberty to share the mustard recipe anyway.  RIP, Julia!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1473 on: Today at 09:57:11 AM »
I thought it appropriate to add some levity to this thread.

Mom inherited a sugar cookie recipe with instructions that it was to STAY IN THE FAMILY.  This became problematic when a dear friend and fellow cook, Julia, requested the recipe.  Mom told the story and refused to share the recipe.

Turnabout is fair play and Julia had a recipe for mustard that was the envy of everyone.  Julia succumbed to cancer and never did get around to sharing that mustard recipe with Mom.

I suspect that some feelings were genuinely hurt by this which is too bad because it is otherwise a great story!

PS.  Julia was a professional cook and may not have been at liberty to share the mustard recipe anyway.  RIP, Julia!

My sister was really upset when I shared a few family recipes outside the family.  My Mom had never said anything about them being "family-only".  So family-only recipes appear to be a "thing".

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1474 on: Today at 10:02:29 AM »
I thought it appropriate to add some levity to this thread.

Mom inherited a sugar cookie recipe with instructions that it was to STAY IN THE FAMILY.  This became problematic when a dear friend and fellow cook, Julia, requested the recipe.  Mom told the story and refused to share the recipe.

Turnabout is fair play and Julia had a recipe for mustard that was the envy of everyone.  Julia succumbed to cancer and never did get around to sharing that mustard recipe with Mom.

I suspect that some feelings were genuinely hurt by this which is too bad because it is otherwise a great story!

PS.  Julia was a professional cook and may not have been at liberty to share the mustard recipe anyway.  RIP, Julia!

My sister was really upset when I shared a few family recipes outside the family.  My Mom had never said anything about them being "family-only".  So family-only recipes appear to be a "thing".
Definitely a "thing".  It took me two decades to get a recipe out of one of my aunts - I still have her hand-written copy.  I later found that the recipe was almost identical to one in a recipe book from 200 years earlier that was rediscovered long after I remember my aunt using the recipe.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1475 on: Today at 10:20:29 AM »
Funny how protective people can be about recipes. It seems totally selfish to me. Only "I" can make this perfect [fill in the blank]. In Not Sure's example, both women ended up hurting each other, which I suspect would have mortified both of them. If only they had looked at it from a different perspective. I suspect neither of them thought they were being petty or jealous, but that's all recipe guarding is. What does it cost/hurt anyone to share? Sad.

lhamo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1476 on: Today at 11:00:24 AM »
I wonder if there is some geographical/cultural specificity to it -- seems like it might be a throwback to county fair days, where women would compete to get "best of" whatever category.  If you had a prize-winning recipe in the family in that environment, I could maybe see why you would want to hang on to it.

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1477 on: Today at 12:32:11 PM »
If you had a prize-winning recipe in the family in that environment, I could maybe see why you would want to hang on to it.

I can't.  This seems like a net loss for society, like refusing to share your discovery of penicillin or the polio vaccine.  If you have something amazing and it costs you nothing to make the world a better place, why would you bury it?

These days, the internet has successfully killed this sort of behaviour, and good riddance.  The secret recipe for coke and KFC's 11 herbs and spices can be found online.  America's test kitchen publishes the results of twenty different empanada recipes and documents why the differences change the food.  Investors research your company's supply chain.  It's much harder to keep secrets these days.

Zikoris

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1478 on: Today at 01:24:09 PM »
If you had a prize-winning recipe in the family in that environment, I could maybe see why you would want to hang on to it.

I can't.  This seems like a net loss for society, like refusing to share your discovery of penicillin or the polio vaccine.  If you have something amazing and it costs you nothing to make the world a better place, why would you bury it?

These days, the internet has successfully killed this sort of behaviour, and good riddance.  The secret recipe for coke and KFC's 11 herbs and spices can be found online.  America's test kitchen publishes the results of twenty different empanada recipes and documents why the differences change the food.  Investors research your company's supply chain.  It's much harder to keep secrets these days.

Totally. People ask me for recipes all the time. Especially my pumpkin pie and peanut butter cookie recipes. I'm like, "Take it! Go make ALL the delicious food!" Spread the gospel!"

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1479 on: Today at 03:15:52 PM »
If you had a prize-winning recipe in the family in that environment, I could maybe see why you would want to hang on to it.

I can't.  This seems like a net loss for society, like refusing to share your discovery of penicillin or the polio vaccine.  If you have something amazing and it costs you nothing to make the world a better place, why would you bury it?

These days, the internet has successfully killed this sort of behaviour, and good riddance.  The secret recipe for coke and KFC's 11 herbs and spices can be found online.  America's test kitchen publishes the results of twenty different empanada recipes and documents why the differences change the food.  Investors research your company's supply chain.  It's much harder to keep secrets these days.

Totally. People ask me for recipes all the time. Especially my pumpkin pie and peanut butter cookie recipes. I'm like, "Take it! Go make ALL the delicious food!" Spread the gospel!"

And if your whole circle has the recipe, then anyone can make it and bring it to a gathering - you are not suddenly making a triple batch because you are the only one who can make it!

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1480 on: Today at 03:34:08 PM »
If you had a prize-winning recipe in the family in that environment, I could maybe see why you would want to hang on to it.

I can't.  This seems like a net loss for society, like refusing to share your discovery of penicillin or the polio vaccine.  If you have something amazing and it costs you nothing to make the world a better place, why would you bury it?

These days, the internet has successfully killed this sort of behaviour, and good riddance.  The secret recipe for coke and KFC's 11 herbs and spices can be found online.  America's test kitchen publishes the results of twenty different empanada recipes and documents why the differences change the food.  Investors research your company's supply chain.  It's much harder to keep secrets these days.

That was something that really made me exciting about FOSS (free and open source software). Here were people sharing and working together to give the world some nice tools at no cost. It has leveled the tables so that the people lacking the money to buy fancy software still have free software to use and share. Do good things with it please...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software

What would be the point of hoarding recipes in a family? Attention? At least share with relatives and friends. Hopefully those who inherit the recipes would share more feely.

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1481 on: Today at 04:56:00 PM »
What would be the point of hoarding recipes in a family? Attention? At least share with relatives and friends. Hopefully those who inherit the recipes would share more feely.

As a (now retired) scientist, the whole idea of putting in thousands of hours to develop some great new thing and then NOT TELLING ANYONE HOW TO DO IT seems entirely contrary to the spirit in which such efforts are undertaken.  Scientists want recognition for their work, but that recognition comes in the form of other people imitating and reproducing it.  This is how society moves forward.  This is how civilization was built.  If your'e hoarding knowledge for yourself, you're literally evil.  In the sense that you're holding the rest of us back from achieving our rightful destiny.

I should not drink and cook and post all at the same time, but today has been a good day.  To all of you hoarding recipes from your neighbors, considers it a holiday good turn to spread the love.

lhamo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1482 on: Today at 05:25:13 PM »
I'm not saying I agree with it.  But in a traditional environment where "a woman's place was in the home" and one of the few public avenues for recognition of (and possible financial reward for) her creativity and ingenuity was through local cooking contests, I can see why some women would want to keep their recipes close to the vest, and encourage their children to do the same.  Because once all your neighbors know the secret of your amazing strawberry jam or apple pie crust, the chances that yours will win on its unique qualities will be greatly diminished.

Most of us do not live in that world anymore -- thank god!  Which is probably why this way of thinking seems odd/selfish to us.

Maybe it also goes back further to the development of specialized bakeries, etc.  You might make a particularly good bread that sells out daily, but if a competitor opens up and replicates your recipe for $.10 less a loaf, there goes a bunch of your business.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1483 on: Today at 05:31:18 PM »
A lost or hoarded recipe isn't the same thing as a scientific discovery.  Recipes are more of an artistic form of expression.  Nobody suffered because Aunt Bea's special bread & butter pickle recipe was buried with her. 


Scientific, technical & medical discoveries are normally protected by patents that ensure the developers, inventors, and investors are well compensated. 


Aunt Bea loved to cook and her recipes made her feel special.  If you're special you can develope your own special recipes, and if you aren't special just go buy a jar of pickles. 



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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1484 on: Today at 06:31:09 PM »
Quote

What would be the point of hoarding recipes in a family? Attention? At least share with relatives and friends. Hopefully those who inherit the recipes would share more feely.

Nearby high school has a locally-famous hot dog sauce that they sell at school events.  Think what would happen if a Coney-dog and a meatless chili-dog had a lovechild.  It's awesome.  The only way you're supposed to be able to get the recipe is to put in enough hours working the concession stand at various  games.  And (almost) everyone who knows the recipe is super protective of it because if everyone knew how to make them then they likely wouldn't have people stop by football games in Friday night just to pick some up for dinner.  I've often seen them cooked as fundraisers for various causes.  I can kind of see how people would think that keeping that recipe secret is kind of guarding an asset for them. 

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1485 on: Today at 10:23:49 PM »
Dunno, in high school I dated a guy whose family had a killer BBQ sauce recipe and everyone was supposedly sworn to secrecy of the highest order. Problem is, they were kinda messy. Every time they made up a batch, they left all the ingredients out on the counter. Duh.