Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 526808 times)

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1350 on: September 06, 2018, 10:05:57 PM »
...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:27:16 PM by Finances_With_Purpose »

marion10

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1351 on: September 07, 2018, 12:32:48 PM »
My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

Fuzzy Buttons

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1352 on: September 07, 2018, 12:49:36 PM »
My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

That's hilarious.  I'm now tempted to update my will to specifically leave one imaginary item to my sister with no explanation. 

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1353 on: September 07, 2018, 01:45:44 PM »
My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

Lol... well,, an organ grinder was a crank (hand operated) organ, a bit like a very large music box... so if there were no musical instruments, and it just named a bench, it may have looked more like a small table, or even a baby pram with wheels / cart.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1354 on: September 09, 2018, 06:01:13 PM »

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

Oh come on now, tell us the reasons.  You know we live vicariously.

The issue is mostly the sheer sum of money, but combines with the needs and judgement of my relatives. If I kick off on my way to the pitch tonight, or any time in the next decade, then each of my children will inherit about $1MM between assets and insurance. That is a decent chunk of money.

The other parent of my spawn has been out of work for nearly a year and is devolving into serious financial trouble. Any money would be used selfishly on what I consider a ridiculous lifestyle while rationalizing that it is really being spent for the kids. I am certain of this. So, other parent is out, as are grandparents on that side, who would just funnel all of the money to other parent to fritter without hesitation.

My Mom, aka Granny Grace, is the current trust holder (trustee?) but it turns out she is completely dishonest, as noted above, and possibly losing her marbles, so she is out. I just have to get someone at the bank to help me set up the new trust (I did go by my credit union the other day, but the guy who does that was out of the office. Sigh.)

One of my brothers and his wife run a charity of sorts. I am concerned that they will see this sum of money and think it could be much better spent on those who benefit from their charity. They are probably right . . . but it is my wish to leave it to my heirs. I also think they will find it unfair that my children have access to so much money while their own children will be scrabbling to get started on their own. Also, as far as I know, they have nothing saved for retirement. If they had just a couple of children, then I would probably split the sum between my own children and my nieces and nephews and not worry about it. But, I have 10 nieces and nephews (and counting), so that divides the money too thinly imho and it is not going to work for me.

My Dad is broke and will work until he dies. His wife has several adult children who are not in good financial positions (she has declared bankruptcy herself, some of her children have bankruptcies or felony convictions in their pasts). Again, I am concerned that the money would be misspent either on their retirement or on her adult children.

There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1355 on: September 10, 2018, 02:13:54 AM »
...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

marion10

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1356 on: September 10, 2018, 07:02:46 AM »
My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

Lol... well,, an organ grinder was a crank (hand operated) organ, a bit like a very large music box... so if there were no musical instruments, and it just named a bench, it may have looked more like a small table, or even a baby pram with wheels / cart.

Itís a joke in our house now. The estate was very small- especially after my MIL spent many years in a nursing home, so itís not like his brothers got a huge amount and he got nothing.

On trusts/ executors- I am leery for the reason described above- I was beneficiary of a medium size trust from my grandfather ( along with my siblings) and my father helped himself to the proceeds- probably saying to himself that he would pay us back- and skipped town. It happens. Fortunately we were adults ( trust was in place until youngest child was 25- she was 19)

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1357 on: September 10, 2018, 07:39:02 AM »
I am now at the point of not knowing whether I should be more gobsmacked by the fecklessness and larceny of all y'all's relatives or by the utter probity of mine.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1358 on: September 10, 2018, 09:35:15 AM »
Zamboni, do you have a non-family member who you would trust with something like this? I'm thinking a Sirius Black type BFF/godfather. (Though someone who will be able to stay out of jail would be a plus.)

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1359 on: September 10, 2018, 09:52:56 AM »
Any money would be used selfishly on what I consider a ridiculous lifestyle while rationalizing that it is really being spent for the kids.

We have accepted this situation.  If we both die, our estate goes into trust for our kids, but the trustee is the same person who would be raising the kids and I'm sure she would spend down every penny of it before they turned 18, and they would get nothing at that point.  She would justify it by saying she needs a bigger house and a new van for the extra kids, and she wouldn't be able to buy anything for our kids without spending just as much (of our money) on her kids.  The whole family would live faaaar beyond their means for a few years, then revert to financial chaos when our money runs out.

But isn't that the best outcome anyway?  I think I'd rather get my kids launched at age 18 with a secure childhood full of wasteful spending behind them, than have them go hungry until then and then suddenly get a giant inheritance which they would promptly mismanage.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:24:25 AM by sol »

Finallyunderstand

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1360 on: September 10, 2018, 10:13:13 AM »
...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

@fredbear are you a writer or enjoy writing?  Maybe a wordsmith in hiding?  For some reason I thoroughly enjoyed your post simply due to the words used.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1361 on: September 10, 2018, 10:50:42 AM »
...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.
Sir, your way with words is very enjoyable.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1362 on: September 10, 2018, 11:01:31 AM »
I enjoy reading these because I think my family is a bit of a trainwreck, but reading these, I am left with, "it could definitely be worse". The worst inheritance story in my family was, my grandfather died, and then my grandmother became a bit of a recluse in the paid for home. My alcoholic uncle moved in at some point, and unknown to the other two siblings (my mother and my other uncle) got power of attorney and had her write a will where he inherited the house, was trustee. When grandmother needed medical assistance, uncle intervened intimidated the nurses and insisted she get no intervention whatsoever - not even tube feeding. My mother and uncle met with the doctors, found out they could do nothing, scrambled for legal representation to overturn the POA. However she died before the POA could be overturned. Uncle disregarded all her verbal (and even written preferences) (sentimental items going to other children such as a portrait grandma painted by my grandfather, grandfather's war correspondence, burial arrangements), liquidated the house contents and sold the house, and told his siblings after the fact. Mother and other uncle went ahead arranged burial and funeral arrangement so her wishes were honored (Catholic funeral and burial in her home town). Needless to say, Uncle was not invited to the funeral, but showed up anyways. From what I heard, he took all the money that was liquidated in cash, moved to be close to a reservation casino where within a few years, had gone through the money. He became homeless for a time and even moved in with other uncle for awhile, until conflicts with the wife got so bad he was kicked out. He still writes hard luck letters to my Mom, and unbelievably, Mom still sometimes sends him money or small things like warm socks, etc.

The only other inheritance stories I know, are disagreements between my Mom and other uncle about furniture from great grandfather, and on my ex's side, between his Mom and aunt, who got grandfather's antique bottle collection. So some complaints from the losing party but not enough hard feelings for any fallings out.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 11:58:25 AM by partgypsy »

markbike528CBX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1363 on: September 10, 2018, 11:46:47 AM »

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.
Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.

Dragonswan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1364 on: September 10, 2018, 12:05:44 PM »

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

Oh come on now, tell us the reasons.  You know we live vicariously.

The issue is mostly the sheer sum of money, but combines with the needs and judgement of my relatives. If I kick off on my way to the pitch tonight, or any time in the next decade, then each of my children will inherit about $1MM between assets and insurance. That is a decent chunk of money.

The other parent of my spawn has been out of work for nearly a year and is devolving into serious financial trouble. Any money would be used selfishly on what I consider a ridiculous lifestyle while rationalizing that it is really being spent for the kids. I am certain of this. So, other parent is out, as are grandparents on that side, who would just funnel all of the money to other parent to fritter without hesitation.

My Mom, aka Granny Grace, is the current trust holder (trustee?) but it turns out she is completely dishonest, as noted above, and possibly losing her marbles, so she is out. I just have to get someone at the bank to help me set up the new trust (I did go by my credit union the other day, but the guy who does that was out of the office. Sigh.)

One of my brothers and his wife run a charity of sorts. I am concerned that they will see this sum of money and think it could be much better spent on those who benefit from their charity. They are probably right . . . but it is my wish to leave it to my heirs. I also think they will find it unfair that my children have access to so much money while their own children will be scrabbling to get started on their own. Also, as far as I know, they have nothing saved for retirement. If they had just a couple of children, then I would probably split the sum between my own children and my nieces and nephews and not worry about it. But, I have 10 nieces and nephews (and counting), so that divides the money too thinly imho and it is not going to work for me.

My Dad is broke and will work until he dies. His wife has several adult children who are not in good financial positions (she has declared bankruptcy herself, some of her children have bankruptcies or felony convictions in their pasts). Again, I am concerned that the money would be misspent either on their retirement or on her adult children.

There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

Thank you for that.  And if it matters, given the details letting the bank be the trustee makes total sense.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1365 on: September 10, 2018, 12:21:53 PM »

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.
Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.

I too am looking for third-party oversight of trust money for my daughter. She will inherit half my pension, which will make her instantly FI if she keeps her expenses low, but she generally doesn't because she is influenced by her lowlife entourage.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1366 on: September 10, 2018, 12:30:24 PM »

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.
Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.

I too am looking for third-party oversight of trust money for my daughter. She will inherit half my pension, which will make her instantly FI if she keeps her expenses low, but she generally doesn't because she is influenced by her lowlife entourage.
I am surprised you are giving her enough to hang herself.

fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1367 on: September 11, 2018, 02:18:05 AM »
Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.
I don't know what they charged.  By the time he shifted the trusteeship to them, I think my half-brother would have regarded about any fee as warranted, even cheap.  As to their technique, I used something similar on my kids.  "Daddy, X did this and you never...."  "What?"  Very distinctly: "Daddy, X did this and you never...."  "What's that?"  Exasperated:  "Daddy, X did this and you..."  "Could you speak up?"  Other child, resignedly: "Daddy can't hear whining and tattling."  So MLPF&S, in a mid-Victorian way: "We are in receipt of your letter and call of the 19th, for which thanks.  Per the terms of the trust, the next disbursement will be made December 31st.  Sincerely,..."  Lather rinse repeat, though I would suppose from time to time even the most affably droning MLPF&S personage would have been tempted to close the letter by writing "With hearty conviction and deep sincerity."  It was pure Skinnerianism and the brothers were as bright as any cheery young pigeons.  Enough experiences pecking at the corporate button and receiving no money pellets whatever, and they got the idea.

fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1368 on: September 11, 2018, 02:49:17 AM »
...
We have accepted this situation.  If we both die, our estate goes into trust for our kids, but the trustee is the same person who would be raising the kids and I'm sure she would spend down every penny of it before they turned 18, and they would get nothing at that point. 

I ran into a similar situation advising an ex-girlfriend about how to provide for her child.  My suggestion to her - similar to you based only on what you wrote - was a term life insurance policy which contained enough to pay off the god-parent's house immediately, pay tuition and living for private school, day care, and college for the god-parent's kids as well as her child, a stipend for living expenses, etc, the policy to be continued by her until her kid graduated or failed out.  Term life is cheap, amazingly cheap, even for a policy like this that would have run to a payout well over a million.  It has to be explained to the god-parent what the idea is behind the payout, and maybe they'll listen and act as you hope and maybe they won't.  If you know they just can't do as you direct, it would be possible to set up a trust to receive the proceeds, and direct the (third-party) trustee in how to dispose of it, ie, directly payoff the godparent's house, reimburse payments for the other expenses, send the monthly stipend, etc.  This would leave your regular estate untouched.

In the matter of kids reaching 18 and blowing it all, I think kids should have a couple years experience in discharging debt monthly, and investing monthly, by that age.  I'm also a fan of phasing trust disbursements, so they start getting it at 18 but don't get it all until 35 or 40 or your death.  At that point they've had some experience, made some dumb-shit mistakes, and are either going to have sense or not.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1369 on: September 11, 2018, 08:57:08 AM »

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.
Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.

I too am looking for third-party oversight of trust money for my daughter. She will inherit half my pension, which will make her instantly FI if she keeps her expenses low, but she generally doesn't because she is influenced by her lowlife entourage.
I am surprised you are giving her enough to hang herself.

She's still learning budgeting and financial responsibility (and is actually making some progress) and it should be another 20 years or so before I kick off and the pension half becomes available.

Hopefully she will have some basic skills by that point.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1370 on: September 11, 2018, 08:06:05 PM »

She's still learning budgeting and financial responsibility (and is actually making some progress) and it should be another 20 years or so before I kick off and the pension half becomes available.

Hopefully she will have some basic skills by that point.

GS, you are the most sensible level-headed person on here!!!!  You know you could be hit (fatally) by a bus tomorrow.


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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1371 on: September 11, 2018, 10:15:35 PM »

She's still learning budgeting and financial responsibility (and is actually making some progress) and it should be another 20 years or so before I kick off and the pension half becomes available.

Hopefully she will have some basic skills by that point.

GS, you are the most sensible level-headed person on here!!!!  You know you could be hit (fatally) by a bus tomorrow.

Of course. In which case, the value of my pension will be zero.

Edited to add: if I kick off today, the only way anyone besides me would get a cent out of the pension would be if I were married. I'm not. I don't get to declare a contingent survivor until I actually retire.

What I'd really like to do is leave every cent, house and all, to my loyal Venomous Spaz Beast, who deserves to live out her life in comfort in the only home she knows. Trouble is, she needs a human to feed her, walk her, and fit in playtime around whatever other life they have. If I can find a reliable human, I'll leave them a paid-off house and an allowance, on the condition that the VSB lives there, sees the vet regularly, and lives out the rest of her natural life in comfort. If the VSB dies, the allowance stops but the caregiver gains title to the house.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 12:06:07 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1372 on: September 12, 2018, 02:54:48 PM »

She's still learning budgeting and financial responsibility (and is actually making some progress) and it should be another 20 years or so before I kick off and the pension half becomes available.

Hopefully she will have some basic skills by that point.

GS, you are the most sensible level-headed person on here!!!!  You know you could be hit (fatally) by a bus tomorrow.

Of course. In which case, the value of my pension will be zero.

Edited to add: if I kick off today, the only way anyone besides me would get a cent out of the pension would be if I were married. I'm not. I don't get to declare a contingent survivor until I actually retire.

What I'd really like to do is leave every cent, house and all, to my loyal Venomous Spaz Beast, who deserves to live out her life in comfort in the only home she knows. Trouble is, she needs a human to feed her, walk her, and fit in playtime around whatever other life they have. If I can find a reliable human, I'll leave them a paid-off house and an allowance, on the condition that the VSB lives there, sees the vet regularly, and lives out the rest of her natural life in comfort. If the VSB dies, the allowance stops but the caregiver gains title to the house.

Aha, I should have known you had the pension situation covered.

I understand fully re VSB - in my will Missy went to DD.  If for any reason DD wouldn't/couldn't take her, I had already cleared with a good friend who is wonderful with dogs that Missy would go to her, and a chunk of money would go with Missy.  Missy would have been fine with either situation, so that was definitely one thing I didn't have to worry about.

I would volunteer to take over VSB 's care if necessary, but I can just see the interview with the American border and immigration people - "you have no job, you are retired, and you are moving here to look after the dog of someone you only knew online?"  That would go over soooo well.    ;-)

Bank or trust company for asset management and someone you trust to look after VSB?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1373 on: September 12, 2018, 04:01:31 PM »
Bank or trust company for asset management and someone you trust to look after VSB?

Something like that.

My mom wants to be the one to take her in, but I've got three major worries. The first is my sibling's cats, who are each more than twice the VSB's size, who have sharp claws and a territorial streak, and who are more than capable of killing the VSB if they teamed up. The cats are pretty much permanent residents of my parents' house because my folks have made a lifetime commitment to enabling said alcoholic sibling who lives with them and who has an ongoing history of harming small animals. (That's major worry #2). Major worry #3 is that VSB type creatures live 15-20 years and my parents aren't in the greatest health. I'm worried what provision *they* would make for the little squeakdog. My guess is that it will be fuck-all based on their current will, which they are in the process of drawing up. It makes no provision for my own kids (one daughter by adoption, one niece acquired informally because she's an orphan related to my daughter; I hope to finalize that adoption as soon as she's at an age where it won't screw her on the FAFSA). The will states that if I predecease them or die within 90 days of the last parent, everything that would have been my inheritance from them will go to my sibling. (This, by definition, would include anything inherited from me including the VSB.)

And, yes, the disinheritance of my children *is* my parents' intention. They don't like my adopted daughter because she's gone through a bit of a violent bratty phase. Yet even at her worst the stunts she's pulled are small potatoes in comparison to what my sibling does and continues to do. They like my niece, who has never shown them or me the slightest disrespect. However, they have a rule about treating kids equally. That means that whenever one kid does something bad they're justified in punishing both. My daughter's been a bit of a brat, ergo both she and my niece are on the shit list despite the fact that my niece is considerate, kind, and a person who genuinely gives a fuck about what happens to me and to them (and who is capable of managing a lump sum windfall-- she may just have VSB guardian potential). I think the other reason my parents don't want to formally recognize my children is because my sibling doesn't have any, and recognizing my kids would mean that my sibling and I aren't being treated equally. I'm within an inch of telling my folks to just simplify matters and leave everything directly to my sibling, and I'll find other ways to set up the VSB and my human heirs. I've never really liked the idea of relying on family money to begin with, and as much as I enjoy my parents' company they've really gone down the rabbit hole with this codependency hobby of theirs.

My thinking is that if my parents are willing to cut out their only grandkids the second I'm not in the picture, which I think is an asshole move no matter how they rationalize it, they definitely can't be relied on to take care of my precious VSB.

Ooh! I think this means my family might have inheritance drama in the future.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1374 on: September 12, 2018, 06:20:57 PM »
Bank or trust company for asset management and someone you trust to look after VSB?

Something like that.
My daughter's been a bit of a brat, ergo both she and my niece are on the shit list despite the fact that my niece is considerate, kind, and a person who genuinely gives a fuck about what happens to me and to them (and who is capable of managing a lump sum windfall-- she may just have VSB guardian potential).

Isn't it amazing how clear things become when they are written out?  You have  found VSB's potential guardian.  No-one else qualifies, she does.

The rest of the nonsense - yikes.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1375 on: September 12, 2018, 11:20:45 PM »
Bank or trust company for asset management and someone you trust to look after VSB?

Something like that.
My daughter's been a bit of a brat, ergo both she and my niece are on the shit list despite the fact that my niece is considerate, kind, and a person who genuinely gives a fuck about what happens to me and to them (and who is capable of managing a lump sum windfall-- she may just have VSB guardian potential).

Isn't it amazing how clear things become when they are written out?  You have  found VSB's potential guardian.  No-one else qualifies, she does.
Well, my niece has a gigantic and spastic puppy at the moment. Until that doggo mellows out enough to play nicely with the VSB it may not be a go. I'm definitely keeping my eye on the situation. Long-term, the potential is there.
Quote
The rest of the nonsense - yikes.
Normal codependent crap in a family with addiction and untreated mental illness, I'm afraid. I'd have succumbed myself if I hadn't buggered off to Yankistan. Oddly, they weren't at all messed up when we were little. They got that way somehow.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1376 on: September 13, 2018, 06:30:20 AM »
Well, my niece has a gigantic and spastic puppy at the moment. Until that doggo mellows out enough to play nicely with the VSB it may not be a go. I'm definitely keeping my eye on the situation. Long-term, the potential is there.
Quote

Well, absent the unexpected bus,  this is long term planning, right?  And wills made for the near future can always be adjusted as the situation changes. I find often that it's the big galumphy dogs are the ones that are best with small dogs.  I love the thought she has a gigantic spastic puppy.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1377 on: September 13, 2018, 06:49:35 AM »
Things got a lot clearer to me when I realized VSB = Venemous SpazzBeast.

I was thinking it was Very Serious Boyfriend.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1378 on: September 13, 2018, 07:33:26 AM »
I recently needed to shop for a corporate trustee and found that Vanguard's annual fee is a flat 0.55% for the first $5 million.  Also, the minimum size trust that they will handle is $500K.


Edward Jones' fee was 3 times more.


I don't have a "good story" to share, yet.  Hopefully never will.  ;)

Ever_Anon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1379 on: September 13, 2018, 07:41:06 AM »
My own VSB died a few years ago, but before he passed I used to worry myself sick with the thought of what would happen to him if I died. My parents were the ones I semi-rescued him from in the first place, so they were definitely out. My sister had three big dogs and two small children, which would not be ideal for a crotchety old chihuahua. I didn't have any friends in a position to take care of a dog. It was terrifying.

In the years since I've acquired both a cat and a wife, the latter of whom makes me far less concerned about the former. But we probably should make some provisions in case we both get hit by the same bus.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1380 on: September 13, 2018, 08:51:32 AM »
I've insisted that my sister and BIL write down their intention for me to take their VSB, because I can see a custody battle in that situation.

Future custody battle participants:
-Our parents, who have eventually taken every dog they've ever had to a shelter
-BIL's mom and stepdad, who have two overweight and poorly-behaved beasts of their own. They don't believe in walking their SHELTIES because they don't think they need the exercise.
-BIL's dad, who doesn't particularly like dogs, but would fight for the sake of fighting

So you can see how my family of three dog lovers who believe in walking dogs might be the preference.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1381 on: September 13, 2018, 10:30:56 AM »
I've insisted that my sister and BIL write down their intention for me to take their VSB, because I can see a custody battle in that situation.

Future custody battle participants:
-Our parents, who have eventually taken every dog they've ever had to a shelter
-BIL's mom and stepdad, who have two overweight and poorly-behaved beasts of their own. They don't believe in walking their SHELTIES because they don't think they need the exercise.
-BIL's dad, who doesn't particularly like dogs, but would fight for the sake of fighting

So you can see how my family of three dog lovers who believe in walking dogs might be the preference.

I still remember dogsitting a friend's dog (who was obese) and asking what their walk schedule was, they said that (overweight dog) "doesn't like walks". I thought that strange because i've never met a dog who didn't like walks. Sure enough on her daily walks, she was super happy, and got some exercise to boot. But it was apparent they never gave her walks : (
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:32:39 AM by partgypsy »

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1382 on: September 13, 2018, 11:47:28 AM »
I've insisted that my sister and BIL write down their intention for me to take their VSB, because I can see a custody battle in that situation.

Future custody battle participants:
-Our parents, who have eventually taken every dog they've ever had to a shelter
-BIL's mom and stepdad, who have two overweight and poorly-behaved beasts of their own. They don't believe in walking their SHELTIES because they don't think they need the exercise.
-BIL's dad, who doesn't particularly like dogs, but would fight for the sake of fighting

So you can see how my family of three dog lovers who believe in walking dogs might be the preference.

I still remember dogsitting a friend's dog (who was obese) and asking what their walk schedule was, they said that (overweight dog) "doesn't like walks". I thought that strange because i've never met a dog who didn't like walks. Sure enough on her daily walks, she was super happy, and got some exercise to boot. But it was apparent they never gave her walks : (

You couldnt blast one of my bulldogs from her house. She practically laid on the ground, claws gripping the front door, when we had to take her some place, haha.

We always knew that if she disappeared it woild be because someone stole her, she would NEVeR just wander away.

She also had the most amazing muscle tone of all of our bulldogs, and we have had 30 of them (we foster, and we adopt senior dogs.) she slept 22 hours a day, never exercised, and could Probably pull a MACK truck from a rolling start if we could ever interest her in that activity.

 Ut yeah, most of our bulldogs like a bit of walkies but we dont take them. She was the exception, Noooooooooo! To leaving home.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1383 on: September 15, 2018, 09:44:32 AM »
@GreenEggs: thank you for the Vanguard Recommendation. Since they are holding most of my money at the moment, probably easiest to just go with them. That is also the lowest rate I have seen quoted in my research. Why didn't I think of that?

@TheGrimSqueaker: great, now I am worrying about what to do with the Shephound if I kick off. At least I have better options for her than I have for managing my money, but I should make a designation to prevent her from just ending up in the county shelter where I found her in the first place. Anyway, thank you for making me think about this as well. Not going to make any arrangements for the fish (how are they even still alive after all of these years?) Hope you can figure out a good action plan for VSB.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1384 on: September 17, 2018, 01:45:35 PM »
I did my will, etc last year. As part of it, I also did a trust that specifically provides for my cats (nonspecific cats, depending on what ones I have if I kick the bucket). And then I wrote up a nonlegal document which specifically laid out what I want done with my house, stuff, cats, etc.

marcela

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1385 on: September 20, 2018, 09:10:15 AM »
A bit of self-interest here, but I work at Vet School and we have a program where we will take over the care of your animals and get them adopted to a good home in the case of your death. There is a financial commitment required of a donation, but several of the other vet schools have similar things. If there is interest I can share more.

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1386 on: September 20, 2018, 09:54:51 AM »
My partner has heard me talk about this thread, and she suggested I contribute her current family drama.

She has a much-older half-sister who has never been financially stable due to addiction and mental health issues.  She and her long-term boyfriend are both on the mortgage for her house, but the boyfriend finally walked away from the crazy and left her with a mortgage payment far in excess of what she can afford.  There is a family crisis unfolding!

She asked her siblings and parents for money, but everyone involved seems to recognize that a bailout is only a temporary solution.  Any money she receives will only forestall the inevitable foreclosure, because what she really needs to do is either sell the house and move somewhere cheaper, or find a new roommate or three.  The problem is that she's a little too crazy for roommates to work out, based on past experiences, so everyone is trying to find a solution that doesn't involve her being homeless again.

The current plan is for her parents, who are stable because they live modestly but are not at all rich, to BUY HER HOUSE for her, and then lease it back to her on a rent-to-own basis.  When they die, whatever unpaid balance remains is supposed to come out of her share of the inheritance, assuming there is any left.  If there's an interest rate on that loan, I have no idea what it might be.

My wife is the executor of their will, and this sounds like a nightmare scenario to me.  Her parents aren't exactly the most organized people, and I'm pretty sure their idea of tracking the payments is going to involve a yellow notepad with handwritten notes on it, if they remembered that month.  Without a good record of the payments, she'll have no idea how to divide the estate.  If there's not enough left over to clear the balance, are we going to have to sell the house again and boot her out?  Because in that seemingly likely scenario, she's just going to be homeless then instead of now, which I guess is still the preferred solution?

Maybe all of the siblings are fine with foregoing their inheritance in order to support their addict half-sister that none of them really talk to or interact with in any way?  The rest of the family is pretty normal, and not in danger of homelessness with or without an inheritance, but most of them are not so well off  that few tens of thousands of dollars would be an easy thing for them to let go.

And I'm not even sure how this proposed plan would work out, logistically.  Can the parents legally buy their daughter's home without an open competitive bid process, in which they might lose the house or bankrupt themselves to acquire it?  What happens when the daughter fails to make payments, if anything?  If the payments are based on below-market interest rate, they'll be depleting the inheritance for every kid, in order to support just one kid, and I'm pretty sure that is not their intention.

The whole situation is F'ed up.  I consider myself lucky that my household doesn't struggle with debilitating health issues, addictions, or emotional problems.  The whole MMM philosophy is great for well-adjusted people who can hold down a steady job and stay functional, but lots of people aren't so lucky.  It's those marginal cases where the idea seems to break down.  Some people are just destined to be poor, it seems, no matter how easy the FIRE math looks to the rest of us.



I'm a red panda

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1387 on: September 20, 2018, 10:17:07 AM »
And I'm not even sure how this proposed plan would work out, logistically.  Can the parents legally buy their daughter's home without an open competitive bid process, in which they might lose the house or bankrupt themselves to acquire it?  What happens when the daughter fails to make payments, if anything?  If the payments are based on below-market interest rate, they'll be depleting the inheritance for every kid, in order to support just one kid, and I'm pretty sure that is not their intention.


Unless you live in a weird market, house sales don't have to have competitive bid processes. They never have to be "on the market" to be eligible for sale. They don't have to sell at market rate even.

And while I get family drama, I think it is a mistake to think of parent's money as your inheritance until they are dead. They can spend it anyway they choose while they are alive, including supporting a black sheep member of the family. Heck her parents could decide the siblings are all solvent and all the money goes to addict-sister.

Sounds like a bit of a nightmare.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1388 on: September 20, 2018, 10:38:09 AM »
Addiction & mental illness is a struggle for many families.  Parents really go through so much stress trying to decide what to do.  Often "helping" only makes them codependent and can often drains resources. 


There's no "right choice" when you're dealing with people that are wrong in the head.  They just seem to cause pain and stress for the whole family, especially their parents.


I'm living with it on both sides of my family, have a sibling & a sibling-inlaw that have caused a lot of worry & stress for our parents, the other siblings, and grandchildren.  Money just seems to complicate things because there isn't a fair way to give or withhold it. 


It's really hard not blaming people with mental issues or addictions, but we don't blame people with cancer or who are victims of other things. 

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1389 on: September 20, 2018, 10:51:47 AM »
Unless you live in a weird market, house sales don't have to have competitive bid processes. They never have to be "on the market" to be eligible for sale. They don't have to sell at market rate even.

I don't know the answer to this, but there's got to be some tax/gift/inheritance issues if there is a transfer of the property at non-market rates. But hey, selling real estate at really inflated values to launder money is a thing that apparently many people and presidents get away with in this country, so maybe not! I know some mortgages are assumable, in which case that may not qualify as a sale and a taxable event.

lhamo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1390 on: September 20, 2018, 11:20:20 AM »
This sounds like a recipe for disaster.  I would push very hard for the house to be sold now. If she can't afford it, she can't afford it -- now or later.  Better she be forced to make the change now rather than forcing the siblings to do it once the parents are gone.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1391 on: September 20, 2018, 11:26:31 AM »
The parents buying the house from the daughter sounds smart.

Figuring out a fair rent to charge the daughter is more difficult.

Deciding how to balance that help for that daughter against the rest of an estate decades from now is the hardest, but it's also a problem so far away that I cannot say it should be a worry right now.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1392 on: September 20, 2018, 11:27:04 AM »
What if the parents own the house, and the rent from the daughter goes to the other children?

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1393 on: September 20, 2018, 01:23:53 PM »
MIL's father was one of those who changed his will the way most people change their socks.  Whoever hadn't slighted him lately got it all.  And by all, I mean a 15 year old car and a house that literally required a hazmat team to clean before going on the market.  There might have been some cash, but one of his caretakers had been writing check to herself for awhile.  MIL got cut out of the will for pointing that out.

In the end, at least three different 20-something "caregivers" showed up at the funeral with a copy of the will that showed they got everything.  His lawyer managed to come up with a copy that left almost everything to BIL.  MIL got a few token dollars.  DH got the gun that his GF used to shoot himself (hence the need for the above hazmat team). 

Of course, BIL/SIL sold the house and the car and blew through that money in a few years.  They've now asked for, and received, "advances" on their inheritance from MIL/FIL to move to Europe for a couple of years.  Had a handful of kids that they couldn't afford.  It's probably going to be pretty ugly when MIL/FIL go.  MIL will either spend everything and leave nothing for anyone or will leave more to BIL under the guise of "he needs it more" (read:  he is the goldenchild that continues to make bad decisions).  FIL is afraid that BIL will sell the family farmland ASAP, and he's probably not wrong.  So, he'll try to put impossible demands on us and make DH the executor of the estate.  In either case, we'll end up having to go through 3 or 4 storage units of "antiques" or just let the units go. 

markbike528CBX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1394 on: September 20, 2018, 01:36:01 PM »
Massive snip.........
In either case, we'll end up having to go through 3 or 4 storage units of "antiques" or just let the units go.

mmmm... is there some way that the storage people could take possession faster than: failng to pay the bill and having to wait some period of time before auction or other disposal?

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1395 on: September 20, 2018, 03:17:03 PM »
What if the parents own the house, and the rent from the daughter goes to the other children?

It's a complicated situation.  The idea is for the daughter to "rent to own" so that she can continue to live in the house that currently owns, but cannot afford, without sending that money out of the family.  Sending it to the other children directly would a) probably breed resentment on the part of the daughter, having to pay her siblings to live in her own house when her siblings didn't do a damn thing for her, and b) probably cause the other siblings to re-evaluate their financial expectations about their parents passing on, because it would effectively be kind of like getting your inheritance early.  They would get "rent" now but then nothing upon their passing, and the unstable daughter would get a free house out of the deal.

I think it is a mistake to think of parent's money as your inheritance until they are dead.

I'm in favor of any remaining inheritances skipping at least one generation.  Preferably, I would like to use my parent's unused money to pay for my grandchildren's college education.  I don't want any money from my parents for myself, in part because I expect to be old and long-since retired by the time it might come my way, but I see value in using family wealth to help the next generation have a head start.

So if there's one person in the family who desperately needs financial support, even if that person is 55 years old and kind of a fuck-up, maybe that's kind of the same thing?  The older generation gets to allocate their money wherever they think it will do the most good, and if they think it better to enable a drug-addicted adult (to keep her off the streets) rather than send a bright young kid to college (because that kid is going to college either way) then who am I to argue?

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1396 on: September 21, 2018, 08:10:37 AM »
There's a macro- and micro- way to think about the issue.

From the micro-perspective, leaving your estate to grand children ensures that assets go through probate every 50-60 years instead of every 25. Less tax exposure. Back when families were bigger, it would have also meant dividing it into smaller pots, which is difficult for indivisible assets (like a house) and produces pots of money that are smaller, hence less life-changing. BUT, I'd argue that grandchildren are more likely to have significant choke points in their life (college, early child-raising expenses) where the money could make much more of a difference.

From the macro-perspective, I think it gets into all of these issues with estate tax, inherited wealth, and an aristocratic class that are best left to another thread.

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1397 on: September 21, 2018, 09:24:26 AM »
From the micro-perspective, leaving your estate to grand children ensures that assets go through probate every 50-60 years instead of every 25.

The transfers would happen every time a generation dies, regardless of who the inheritance goes to.

Yes, I agree that it would mean smaller pots of money if there are more grandkids than kids.  That's part of the plan.  Each grandkid would theoretically get two (smaller) grandparent inheritances earlier in life, though, instead of one (bigger) parental inheritance later in life.

Quote
From the macro-perspective, I think it gets into all of these issues with estate tax, inherited wealth, and an aristocratic class that are best left to another thread.

Conceptually I agree with you here, but my life is small.  I'm talking about giving a bunch of 25 year olds $25k each to pay off college debt or buy their first house, not bequeathing them a trust fund that means they will never work a day in their lives.  It's still a head start in life that perpetuates wealth inequality, but it's designed to lift people out of poverty and into the American middle class instead of building an impenetrable wall that separates the middle class from the wealthy elite.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1398 on: September 21, 2018, 10:12:49 AM »
Is the house appropriate for her situation?

Could she get a roommate?

There is also the issue of maintaining the house. Who's going to pay for that?

The deal could be structured so that she continues to make mortgage payments until the loan is paid off. Atfer your parents  eventually pass away, the payments would be distributed among the siblings, less her share, which she would presumably inherit.



financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1399 on: September 21, 2018, 11:27:39 AM »
It's a complicated situation.  The idea is for the daughter to "rent to own" so that she can continue to live in the house that currently owns, but cannot afford, without sending that money out of the family.  Sending it to the other children directly would a) probably breed resentment on the part of the daughter, having to pay her siblings to live in her own house when her siblings didn't do a damn thing for her, and b) probably cause the other siblings to re-evaluate their financial expectations about their parents passing on, because it would effectively be kind of like getting your inheritance early.  They would get "rent" now but then nothing upon their passing, and the unstable daughter would get a free house out of the deal.
it's not complicated at all; the parents are going to subsidize one daughter so she can maintain a lifestyle she can not afford. The parents hope this will be corrected with the inheritance when they die. This will not happen. When it is time for the inheritance there will be a lot of drama and the end result of all of it will be that the one daughter will have gotten a bigger share of the inheritance then the other siblings. The family will probably splinter because of this with siblings no longer speaking to each other.
It is their money and the parents can do with it whatever they want. But these will be the ultimate consequences if they chose this particular path. If they are fine with that, great. If not, they might better look for another solution.