Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 515181 times)

CheapskateWife

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1300 on: May 12, 2018, 04:54:24 PM »
I must be missing something.  [edited]...you don't want to tell MIL your plans, but you've told BIL.  Will BIL not talk to MIL about this?  And, is not telling MIL just to maintain the option to pay off creditors or is it somehow a 'kindness' or other reason?

Why not just come clean on your intentions [edited]?

IDK but it seems there are relatively easier ways to get out of the middle.

ETA: Sorry for possible foam...edited for brevity
No worries....its a super complicated situation.  We have not told either BIL or MIL yet what we intend to do...but after discussing much this weekend, we intend to bow out of executorship and ask her to find someone else to inherit the house.  We want out, free and clear.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1301 on: May 12, 2018, 05:23:15 PM »

There is just no reasoning with her on things like this.
[/quote]

95 year olds tend to have 95 years of accumulated thinking that isn't going to be swayed easily.
[/quote]

Marty, what a great way to think about it and express it.
This may help me be a little more patient with some people I know.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1302 on: May 12, 2018, 08:10:04 PM »
I must be missing something.  [edited]...you don't want to tell MIL your plans, but you've told BIL.  Will BIL not talk to MIL about this?  And, is not telling MIL just to maintain the option to pay off creditors or is it somehow a 'kindness' or other reason?

Why not just come clean on your intentions [edited]?

IDK but it seems there are relatively easier ways to get out of the middle.

ETA: Sorry for possible foam...edited for brevity
No worries....its a super complicated situation.  We have not told either BIL or MIL yet what we intend to do...but after discussing much this weekend, we intend to bow out of executorship and ask her to find someone else to inherit the house.  We want out, free and clear.

It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1303 on: May 13, 2018, 11:22:00 AM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

This.

My father named my husband as executor. Then we found out that since we live in a different country from Dad, having my husband as executor makes the estate count as a foreign estate and be subject to higher tax. So we asked my sister (who lives near my father, speaks the language better than DH does, is familiar with the legal system there, etc.) if she would mind being the executor. She agreed, and Dad agreed to change his will, but he's a procrastinator and 83 years old, so DH may well end up having to refuse.

calimom

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1304 on: May 13, 2018, 07:22:34 PM »
It would be tempting to sell the proceeds from the mobile home after the eventual death of MIL and pass the proceeds along to BIL's ex-wife to make up for some of the back child support her kids' deadbeat dad has owed all these years. Of course I'm painting with a broad brush of assumption (what is the ex-wife like? are the kids still minors?) And of course it would not end well with the BIL but sounds like no scenario will be satisfactory with him.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1305 on: May 14, 2018, 07:51:01 AM »
It would be tempting to sell the proceeds from the mobile home after the eventual death of MIL and pass the proceeds along to BIL's ex-wife to make up for some of the back child support her kids' deadbeat dad has owed all these years. Of course I'm painting with a broad brush of assumption (what is the ex-wife like? are the kids still minors?) And of course it would not end well with the BIL but sounds like no scenario will be satisfactory with him.
That is an interesting idea...the state of CA pays support to the intended recipients whether they receive it or not, and then charge appropriately exorbitant fees to the non-payer for being a burden to the Tax Payers...maybe we'll send the proceed to the state child support office in his name.

fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1306 on: May 14, 2018, 10:12:25 AM »
...the state of CA pays support to the intended recipients whether they receive it or not, and then charge appropriately exorbitant fees to the non-payer for being a burden to the Tax Payers...maybe we'll send the proceed to the state child support office in his name.

I got to watch this play out with my half-brother, who declined or was self-proclaimed unable to pay his child support.  His father paid it for him, until his father died.  Then, nothing.  His ex complained to CA.  I don't know as they actually paid his share to her, probably did, but do know that they terminated his licenses, to drive and to practice his "profession."  Their computer's memory is flawless (as is his ex's).  Now it is years later and he remains unable to drive or do his "work."  A good example of a threat that turns counterproductive when once it is converted from threat to action; without those licenses AChe is functionally unemployable, so there is no way he will ever be able to pay CA back.  The "child" is probably 35 or so.  On the other hand, to do him strict justice, losing those licenses was not the blow to him that it might be to most people, as he never was very employable, and even when he was, felt degraded by mere labor, as his true calling was to be a spiritual leader to the rest of us.   

So if you send it in in his name and they actually credit his account, and if it is enough to clear amount, penalty, and interest, you might get BIL mobile and employable.  It .. could happen, and it would be a familial thing to do.  On the other hand, for reasons I have mentioned elsewhere in the comments, I would never do any business with California nor advise anyone else to do so.  It is a grave error to let them know you exist, but worse if they start to believe you might have money you consider your own; they will know it belongs to the Franchise Tax Board and needs to be extracted from you. 

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1307 on: May 14, 2018, 11:03:48 AM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

I was ready to say "no" to my parents' timeshare which my parents bequeathed to me and my sisters.  They set that up when they bought the timeshare 25 years ago but by the time my folks passed that thing was a financial albatross.  Luckily we were able to get the timeshare company to buy it back but it was touch and go with them for a while as they (the timeshare company) really didn't like doing it. 

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1308 on: May 14, 2018, 11:21:40 AM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

I was ready to say "no" to my parents' timeshare which my parents bequeathed to me and my sisters.  They set that up when they bought the timeshare 25 years ago but by the time my folks passed that thing was a financial albatross.  Luckily we were able to get the timeshare company to buy it back but it was touch and go with them for a while as they (the timeshare company) really didn't like doing it.

I really don't understand timeshares. You can often get equal cost hotels by doing a little research for each trip, and it doesn't require locking into a certain brand. In fact, we try to stay at timeshares for cash. At worst, they've tried to pitch us or get us to attend a sales meeting, but 2 or 3 rejections and they stop.

When my in-laws die, we will absolutely reject the timeshare that they own. Thank goodness my folks never got roped into that kinda nonsense.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1309 on: May 14, 2018, 11:53:21 AM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

I was ready to say "no" to my parents' timeshare which my parents bequeathed to me and my sisters.  They set that up when they bought the timeshare 25 years ago but by the time my folks passed that thing was a financial albatross.  Luckily we were able to get the timeshare company to buy it back but it was touch and go with them for a while as they (the timeshare company) really didn't like doing it.

ETA: A few years after my folks bought their timeshare, my sister and BIL bought one as well.  Not a good deal, they somehow managed to get rid of it after a few years, but before those things became largely unsellable.

I really don't understand timeshares. You can often get equal cost hotels by doing a little research for each trip, and it doesn't require locking into a certain brand. In fact, we try to stay at timeshares for cash. At worst, they've tried to pitch us or get us to attend a sales meeting, but 2 or 3 rejections and they stop.

When my in-laws die, we will absolutely reject the timeshare that they own. Thank goodness my folks never got roped into that kinda nonsense.

My folks decided on the timeshare instead of buying a vacation cabin in the same area.  They reasoned that the timeshare would be cheaper, they didn't have to deal with maintenance/taxes/utilities plus the risk of vandalism/squatters while the cabin was unoccupied, especially during the hunting season. Plus they had some friends who were in the same timeshare program who pitched it.   I understood the reasons they had, but still was skeptical about them taking on that kind of arrangement.  But it was their money.

I later found out that their lawyer, who did their estate planning and taxes, advised against it, saying it was a bad deal, but they went ahead anyway.  And they named me and my sisters as beneficiaries assuming we would want the place as something to vacation to.   I signed a quitclaim taking me off as beneficiary just before my Dad passed (my Mom was already gone) but it was just a couple of weeks before Dad died, so wasn't sure it got recorded in time.  So was relieved when the timeshare company agreed to a buy back.   I was prepared to do whatever it was necessary not to take on that thing. 

ETA: A few years after my folks got their timeshare, my sister and BIL bought one was well.  Total waste of money, they got out of it after only a couple of years but before those things became as unsellable as they seem to be now.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:59:34 AM by saguaro »

CheapskateWife

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1310 on: May 14, 2018, 11:56:42 AM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

This.

My father named my husband as executor. Then we found out that since we live in a different country from Dad, having my husband as executor makes the estate count as a foreign estate and be subject to higher tax. So we asked my sister (who lives near my father, speaks the language better than DH does, is familiar with the legal system there, etc.) if she would mind being the executor. She agreed, and Dad agreed to change his will, but he's a procrastinator and 83 years old, so DH may well end up having to refuse.
Wait, so are you saying that we could just not do anything?  Shred the will and pretend it doesn't exist? She passes and we have the memorial, file a quit claim deed on the trailer and gift it to the mobile home park and then not do anything about her bills, creditors, or anything?  Let them keep sending bills to her address, but no one answers them?  No filing of final taxes.  Nothing? I'm kindof liking this idea :-)

marion10

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1311 on: May 14, 2018, 04:47:43 PM »
I would consult an attorney- I would not destroy a will- but you do not have to accept being the executor. You can decline and I assume the state will appoint someone. As others have pointed out , you do not have to accept a bequest. People die intestate all the time.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1312 on: May 14, 2018, 04:54:28 PM »
It's important to recognize two things here.  Doesn't matter what's in the will, no one can make you be an executor of an estate and no one can make you accept their bequeathed property.   Say no now, but recognize that if she doesn't listen, you can say no later, too.

This.

My father named my husband as executor. Then we found out that since we live in a different country from Dad, having my husband as executor makes the estate count as a foreign estate and be subject to higher tax. So we asked my sister (who lives near my father, speaks the language better than DH does, is familiar with the legal system there, etc.) if she would mind being the executor. She agreed, and Dad agreed to change his will, but he's a procrastinator and 83 years old, so DH may well end up having to refuse.
Wait, so are you saying that we could just not do anything?  Shred the will and pretend it doesn't exist? She passes and we have the memorial, file a quit claim deed on the trailer and gift it to the mobile home park and then not do anything about her bills, creditors, or anything?  Let them keep sending bills to her address, but no one answers them?  No filing of final taxes.  Nothing? I'm kindof liking this idea :-)

No, if the person specified in the will won't do it, and doesn't assign someone else to do it, the government will assign someone to be executor. 

You only have to be executor if you want to be.  It will all get sorted out one way or another.  Your choice is whether that includes you as executor or not.

Same as if they give you the trailer in the will.  You just refuse to accept it.   Then the executor has to deal with it because it's not your problem.



NoraLenderbee

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1313 on: May 14, 2018, 05:20:39 PM »
I would consult an attorney- I would not destroy a will- but you do not have to accept being the executor. You can decline and I assume the state will appoint someone. As others have pointed out , you do not have to accept a bequest. People die intestate all the time.

Yep, you can refuse to be the executor. However, you'll probably have to go through a court procedure to have them appoint a replacement executor. It would be worth discussing with a lawyer before she dies. You might also want to see if DH can file a quit claim before she dies. It would be better to get his name off the title before he "inherits" it.

Good luck. This stuff can be complicated and leave permanent bad feelings--over what's basically trash.

babybug

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1314 on: May 14, 2018, 06:03:01 PM »
I actually just got some glorious news. I'm off the hook and no longer executor for an out-of-country estate.

My parents, who are not at all Mustachian anymore because they started making serious money later in life, wanted me to be the executor for their estate and to-- get this-- manage my estranged fuckup sibling's trust and dole out such money as he needs to continue enabling his cranially-rectally-inverted ways while still saddling me with the responsiblity of making sure the moron doesn't drink himself to death or throw a booze-filled tantrum and drive into someone who matters. After decades of enabling the little dipshit they wanted to drag me onto the codependent merry-go-round in their place. This is despite the fact I took off nearly twenty years ago and left the freaking country to avoid the stupid family drama.

Luckily, they found an estate lawyer who bitchslapped some sense into them. They aren't going to make my idiot sibling executor (said sibling went bankrupt without having actual bad life experiences, just bad financial decision making). We will be paying someone else to just liquidate everything in sight.

I am So. Fucking. Relieved.
Just scrolling the thread.  Grimsqueaker, I have the same messed up family dynamic and I left that country 20yrs ago, returned 3yrs ago and left again never ever to step back in that viper nest.  Yeah, tonly gets worse ...

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NorCal

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1315 on: May 14, 2018, 09:36:19 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

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Threshkin

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1317 on: May 14, 2018, 10:02:15 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

...snip...

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Here in Colorado they would likely already be considered married since they were living together and presumably sharing finances.  Common Law state FTW (or loss depending on your perspective)

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1318 on: May 14, 2018, 10:23:47 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.
Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 08:22:05 AM by Dicey »

expatartist

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1319 on: May 15, 2018, 12:16:43 AM »
Inheritance drama? Yes we've got some. My father died a few months ago. He was diagnosed with untreatable aggressive leukaemia and had only a month to live.  Though his will was pretty straightforward and his 5 children received relatively equal portions of his estate, during the process there's been a bit of what some might call drama:

* One sister (the executor) has repeatedly accused the other of attempted patricide
* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate (he already had a slightly larger share of the estate, it didn't increase at all)

The remaining brother and I try to give some perspective and watch from the sidelines. It's a fucking family tragedy in the making.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1320 on: May 15, 2018, 11:19:23 AM »
* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

ixtap

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1321 on: May 15, 2018, 11:25:58 AM »
* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

I thought the prostitutes we're to cheer Dad up...

NorCal

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1322 on: May 15, 2018, 08:56:26 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.
Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.

Unfortunately, California is not a state that recognizes common law marriages.  I think it's already too late, as she is confined to her bed, and can barely speak.  Everything being done on her behalf is under a power-of-attorney (that FIL can't actually find).

expatartist

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1323 on: May 15, 2018, 09:15:26 PM »
* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

Right?! Twisted sister kind of logic.


I thought the prostitutes we're to cheer Dad up...

;)

All this is making me very very happy I live 7000 miles away.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1324 on: May 15, 2018, 11:57:26 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.
Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.

Unfortunately, California is not a state that recognizes common law marriages.  I think it's already too late, as she is confined to her bed, and can barely speak.  Everything being done on her behalf is under a power-of-attorney (that FIL can't actually find).
IDK, but this case did happen in CA, within the last 10 years. They married on his deathbed and she was able to collect his Social Security.

MarciaB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1325 on: May 16, 2018, 03:37:55 PM »
Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Did Ann make substantially more than he did? Because as far as I understand survivor's benefits (I'm a widow myself, but not yet drawing SS benefits) a person can qualify for several different benefits (your own SS, survivor SS) but can only take one at a time. Meaning, he would want to take whichever was higher (his own, or hers). He couldn't take both. He can start with one and then make a switch, but he can't double-dip.

So if he and Ann made about the same amount, or if she earned less in her lifetime, then her benefits aren't of benefit to him (because his are more to begin with).

sol

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1326 on: May 16, 2018, 08:02:45 PM »
Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

NorCal

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1327 on: May 16, 2018, 08:35:04 PM »
Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

Good to know.  I don't pretend to be an SS expert, as I'm young enough that it doesn't matter for me personally yet.  I guess my concerns might be irrational.  Maybe (I hope) FIL knows the math and has determined it doesn't matter.

Sometimes he does things that are financially savvy (he pays a lot of attention to what he can write off as a business expense, and does a ton of DIY projects), but I also know he carries a balance on his credit cards and has no savings.

Mostly, I'm worried about the guy.  They were life partners, and a couple that lived paycheck-to-paycheck on dual incomes.  He's going to be both personally and financially devastated, and there's not a lot we can do to help.

Physicsteacher

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1328 on: May 16, 2018, 09:42:43 PM »
Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

That's actually the case for spousal benefits while the spouse is alive. For a widow or widower, the max benefit is the higher of the deceased's benefit or the surviving spouse's benefit based on his or her own earnings record.

MarciaB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1329 on: May 16, 2018, 09:56:37 PM »
Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

Um, no. Survivor benefits, unlike spousal benefits, are 100% of the deceased's benefit going to the widow(er) as long as that benefit is higher than the survivor's own. And, as you say, you can only take one of the two (yours or theirs, whichever is higher).

But - the lesson here is that the person in question needs to get himself to a SS office and have a talk with an agent about his particular situation. Get the actual facts about his actual situation. And then make some decisions (get married? stay the course? etc.)

JGS1980

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1330 on: August 27, 2018, 10:14:52 AM »
PTF

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1331 on: August 27, 2018, 11:24:45 AM »
On the other hand, to do him strict justice, losing those licenses was not the blow to him that it might be to most people, as he never was very employable, and even when he was, felt degraded by mere labor, as his true calling was to be a spiritual leader to the rest of us.     

:)

Couldn't let that gem go by unappreciated.

cloudsail

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1332 on: August 31, 2018, 12:59:56 PM »
So I have a situation, I wouldn't exactly call it drama, maybe I just need to vent.

My MIL passed away earlier this year. She fought lung cancer for a year, so before she died she was very explicit about how she wanted things distributed. They have three kids, my husband is the youngest. She willed an apartment in Taipei to their daughter, who currently lives there. It's worth approximately $800,000. She willed their primary residence in Vancouver BC to the oldest son. It was purchased for approximately $1.6M. She wanted my BIL to give us $800,000 CDN as half the value of the house.

Now my husband has this extreme aversion to taking money from his relatives. It really just makes him feel bad. At first he said he didn't want any of it, and that his brother had a right to the house since he was going to be living in it with their dad and taking care of him. But obviously my MIL was not going to agree to not leaving her youngest anything. She was very insistent on everything being equal. So we said okay.

My BIL is an upstanding guy and even before my MIL passed has been asking us to setup a Canadian dollar account so he can wire the money to us. But my husband has been trying to avoid it. He basically just changes the subject whenever his brother brings it up. I talked about going to the nearest HSBC and setting up an account but he never seems to want to do it. There was also talk about buying property on Vancouver Island, at which point he actually expressed the wish for his brother to retain ownership of any properties purchased. So essentially he just doesn't want the money.

We are very stable financially and well on our way to FI in about six years, but $800,000 CDN is a lot of money. Even just sitting in a savings account at 1% interest that's $8000 a year. Knowing my BIL he would try very hard to get the money to us, but it kind of galls me that that kind of money meanwhile is just sitting there. Also I'm not sure how hard he would try if my husband just doesn't want to cooperate. My fear is that eventually the issue might just die.

Anyway, that's the inheritance drama in my life right now, and yes, I'm aware that it lies entirely with my husband.

Does anyone remember my inheritance drama from two years ago? I thought I'd post an update, two years down the road.

The situation has changed quite a bit. Not too long after I made my post, my BIL was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer. His original plan for paying us the $800,000 was to give us $300,000 in cash and take out a HELOC on the house for the rest (the house is probably worth around $2M CDN now). As I mentioned, he was very eager to get this settled.

Things changed with his cancer diagnoses. He no longer wanted to take out a large loan, not knowing how long he had left to live. He has two young children. His wife is trained as a nurse but doesn't currently work. His immediate concern became looking after his family, which is totally expected and understandable.

After a lot of reasoning, I convinced my husband to take the $300,000 that BIL had set aside in cash for us. And that is all I expect to receive. BIL has responded very well to cancer treatment and is in remission. He still talks about owing us half a million dollars sometimes, but we have no intention of taking the money from him, and I don't think he seriously wants to go into debt for that much anymore either. We also haven't touched the $300,000 and I don't include it into our financial calculations. That money is set aside in case my husband's family needs financial help in the future, specifically his dad, who has at least a couple million in his bank account but never invests and isn't great about refusing financial sponging from his extended family.

All in all, it's a very good thing we discovered FIRE and have set ourselves up financially such that we can basically ignore the impact that $800,000 CDN might have on our lives.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1333 on: August 31, 2018, 01:09:21 PM »
Thank you for this update. It sounds as though the brothers have come to an understanding that makes everyone happy. Would you consider investing some portion of your $300,000 fund in a non-cash vehicle. I agree that 100% VTI is too risky in case a need arises in the next few years, but would you consider some modification of the "Larry" portfolio so that there could still be long-term growth?

My dad had bypass surgery in March (he lives in TX), and--while there was some drama with my mom--it was a relief to have financial freedom in solving those problems. The focus could be entirely on designing a lifestyle that suited my dad health-wise, with the resources available to create that and compensate my wife and me for the money we spent on travel.

Rosielicious

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1334 on: August 31, 2018, 02:49:10 PM »
Well I just lost a lot of hours to binge-reading this thread. So much DRAMA! And some nice stories of people doing the right thing by their loved ones.

Some of it makes me pretty glad I only have a small family.

ArviK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1335 on: September 01, 2018, 12:31:49 PM »
I had a great aunt, my grandfathers sister. She escaped to Sweden before WW2, became pretty rich.
My grandfathers brother, my great uncle then, with hes two daughters wanted that inheritance. They lied and lied and lied about all other relatives so that my great aunt would not have contact with anybody.

Problem was that aunt lived to 94. Meanwhile uncle died, and his daughters were in their 60s. They were so pissed off about my aunts longevity that they kept her body in freezer in morgue for half year.

Since nobody was allowed to have contact with aunt she died alone. That's the sad part. I visited her a lot, when I was little boy and she was pretty cool. She had a great library in her home.

Another part of my relatives had falling out over house that was inherited from my mothers side, everybody wanted piece of that house. Now that they are in 70-s and old they wanted to make up with everybody. Guess they want to face death with clean conscience.

Forgiving them seems to be right thing to do but damn... just want to yell at them for being so dumb and choosing money over relatives.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1336 on: September 01, 2018, 03:21:48 PM »
Haven't been to this thread in ages, but I have two things to add:

1)@TheGrimSqueaker, thank you for starting your blog! I will read it shortly as I know it will crack me up.

2) You probably have forgotten about all of this, since it was on like page 2 or 3 of this thread, but my Grandma "Grace" was quite a handful of folly, evil, and spite. Well, unfortunately it seems like my Mom, whom we now call Granny, is slowly turning into Granny Grace.

Granny Grace has just informed me that I am "executrix" of her will. She made sure I know that the proper term is executrix. Uh huh.

Granny Grace is a bit of a hoarder, although she did move a few years ago which dramatically helped the situation . . . at the time of the move, she got overwhelmed and agreed to have most of her crap hauled away and sold by a couple of her neighbors. Praise baby Jesus! She has shown me the secret places in her new house where she stashes her remaining secret loot. This thread has taught me I can refuse both duty and property when the time comes . . . thank you all for that!

Her latest shenanigans:

Granny Grace bought a vintage 80's Chevy Camaro "for" one of my nephews for the low low price of $8K. Her idea was that he would buy it from her, but he was a teenager trying to finish high school at the time: no money. Certainly no $8K.

So, of course, she has never let him have it because he had to pay for it first. Right before the purchase, she asked what I thought and I told her not to buy the car. She has 12 grandkids . . . is she going to buy them all cars? Obviously not. She also asked my brother (nephew's Dad) and he told her not to buy it . . . besides the obvious reasons, he had already purchased his son a used Prius, which was right nice of him.
Seems that all adults who are not Granny Grace think a teen-aged boy driving a Chevy Camaro is a bad idea (in an area with long, harsh snowy winters, no less).

She never registered or insured this glorious muscle car, and so it has been under its fancy car sheet parked in her carport for a couple of years. Nephew is now thousands of miles away in the military. I told her that the battery is likely dead at this point and the tires are probably getting destroyed because the car never moves. She retorted that she could sell it for more than she bought it for. Whatever.

Honestly, I hope she is right about the car resale value. She has always been poor and it was $8K that she will eventually need for food. She only even had $8K on hand because she had just downsized her home.

The real gem, though, came on my last visit. During this visit, Granny Grace said that she is leaving my brother her house but that she has thought up a way to "even things out."

According to her, we should not tell anyone when she dies. She let me know that, unbeknownst to me, she still has the joint savings account that she opened for me when I was like 5 years old (it is in another state . . . not the state that she lives in now and not the state that I live in now). Seriously my signature on that thing is from when I could barely write my name, and last time I saw that account before I left for college the balance was right around a hundred dollars. She pitched the idea that I not tell anyone she died, that way, get this: I can continue depositing her social security check into that account for years after. She pitched it like this criminal idea was some kind of gift to me that I should be grateful to receive.

That's right: good old-fashioned social security fraud of the worst kind. What the literal fuck?!

Yes, I informed her that this was both immoral and illegal and I would do no such thing, which seemed to disappoint her. I didn't even let her get to her ideas about what to do with her body (it seemed like she had thought it through and was eager to explain the whole caper, but I cut her off.) Then I made her feel better by ensuring her that she was going to live many more years, so it's not something she should even be thinking about right now.

On the bright side, I'm confident that my brother will also have nothing to do with her ridiculous ideas. We are going to be the anti-inheritance drama wonder twins.

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 06:34:03 PM by Zamboni »

marty998

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1337 on: September 01, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
According to her, we should not tell anyone when she dies. She let me know that, unbeknownst to me, she still has the joint savings account that she opened for me when I was like 5 years old (it is in another state . . . not that state that she lives in now and not the state that I live in now). Seriously my signature on that thing is from when I could barely write my name, and last time I saw that account before I left for college the balance was right around a hundred dollars. She pitched the idea that I not tell anyone she died, that way, get this: I can continue depositing her social security check into that account for years after. She pitched it like this criminal idea was some kind of gift to me that I should be grateful to receive.

That's right: good old-fashioned social security fraud of the worst kind. What the literal fuck?!

Everyone thinks old people are sweet and nice. They can be the worst kind of crooks given the opportunity :)

No one ever suspects little ol' granny who bakes cupcakes and donates to church.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1338 on: September 02, 2018, 03:46:46 AM »
Zamboni - that is nuts.  Any chance that she's getting dementia?  How could  anyone think SS fraud is a great idea for 'evening things out"?

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1339 on: September 02, 2018, 08:33:23 AM »
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.

Candace

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1340 on: September 02, 2018, 09:12:08 AM »
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1341 on: September 02, 2018, 10:20:12 AM »
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

I agree with Candace, and I'm particularly impressed that you and your brother are on the same page over this - "divide and rule" is so often used against siblings in this sort of situation.

BTDretire

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1342 on: September 02, 2018, 05:19:33 PM »
she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1343 on: September 03, 2018, 10:23:00 AM »
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see.

My grandmother had highly idiosyncratic ideas of how the world works, or should work, and based her behavior on that rather than on the actual world.  E.g., she decided that her pension should not be taxable, so she didn't declare it on her tax return. After she died we had to submit several years of amended tax returns.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1344 on: September 03, 2018, 10:53:58 AM »
Lol, my grandmother did the same thing. She decided to stop paying her heating oil bill on her large house in Cambridge, MA, because "They fill it anyway, even if I don't pay it." Um, that's because two of her six children, who had eleven young children between them, paid it for her. I know what a sacrifice it was for them, because one of them was my dad.

babybug

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1345 on: September 03, 2018, 03:14:34 PM »
she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.
The best thing for everyone is to either sign it over to her her or evict her.  Pick one or the other.  You are both responsible for the current situation.

I sold my sister a house to pay me interest free as she could not afford a mortgage. After a few years she began to get resentful about it. I just gifted her the damn thing and removed myself from that potentially toxic dynamic. 

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Mesmoiselle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1346 on: September 03, 2018, 07:13:56 PM »
I'm confused why "the richest daughter" getting improved real estate factors into anything. If grandma had bought her daughter 8 collector cars now valued at a quarter million all together, it doesn't matter- that's called a gift. You can get "your share" of a gift.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1347 on: September 04, 2018, 08:06:33 AM »
she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.

Could you force a sale and help her find something she can afford or that offers a potential rental option (duplex or basement apartment)? That way she gets something that she can afford to take care of and you get your part. Any house will require maintenance. I could imagine her struggling to have the roofing replaced or the HVAC replaced.

Dragonswan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1348 on: September 04, 2018, 11:33:19 AM »

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

Oh come on now, tell us the reasons.  You know we live vicariously.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1349 on: September 04, 2018, 11:40:56 AM »
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

I agree with Candace, and I'm particularly impressed that you and your brother are on the same page over this - "divide and rule" is so often used against siblings in this sort of situation.

To the bolded DH is currently dealing with this from his still living parents.   He has one sister and his parents have always played their two children against each other (the classic Golden Child / scapegoat dynamic) but right now there's drama (again) with SIL and her children, where they are mad at her so now DH is being told how he will inherit all that they planned to give her.  They have supposedly valuable artwork from their artwork buying spree in the 90s, that they are convinced is worth of lot of money and if he wants it, he can take it and in their exact words "get it away from your sister".

DH is not falling for it, he's all too used to his parents' drama and knows that it can change in a heartbeat, and things will flip back to SIL being their Golden Child again. And she will get the artwork again which she can have as far as he's concerned.  He doesn't want to be a part of their drama and frankly they have all shown not to be all that honest either.