Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 280781 times)

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #100 on: January 05, 2016, 08:17:50 AM »
I just learned about this--apparently when my father-in-law was literally hours away from death my two youngest sisters-in-law were going around his house putting different-colored sticky notes on the furniture they wanted, which was most of it.  Sigh.

After my grand-father passed away, my grand-mother told her kids (my dad is one of five), to put sticky notes on anything they wanted in the house - for when she would eventually pass. My aunts and uncles live relatively close (max 400 km for the farthest). My dad lives 800 km away and as such, wasn't able to participate in such ridiculousness because he wasn't around soon enough. My grand-mother also favours her two girls anyway. She is still alive at 96, my father is 63 and frankly couldn't give a shit about accumulating more stuff (my parents are epic mustachians and are multi-millionaires in their own right). Old photo albums and my grand-father's war medals are the only things my father would have liked to have (or at least a few photos). But since he wasn't around, my grand-mother told him, «meh, tough, should have been there».

No one in my family is poor, everyone has done very well for themselves - why do you need some furniture then? I don't get it.

Wilson Hall

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #101 on: January 05, 2016, 08:58:59 AM »
Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.   


Yep.

My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #102 on: January 05, 2016, 10:16:09 AM »
On one side of my family, the only drama after grandparents died was over personal possessions rather than money.  Some of my parents generation placed extreme sentimental value on specific items, and other members of that generation scooped them up without asking or discussing.  I don't think it was malicious, but it certainly upset some folks who didn't realize their siblings had such hard-ons for certain pieces of furniture or whatever.

On the other side of the family, things got significantly more complicated because one of my poor/needy cousins was living in my grandparent's house (at well below market rent, but not for free) after the grandparent moved into a nursing home.  All of the siblings who equally inherited a portion of that house wanted to sell it and split the proceeds, except of course the sibling whose kid was living in the house, who naturally argued that if grandparent was offering cut-rate rent then they clearly wanted the cousins to have the house.  That sibling refused to buy out the other siblings, even though there was plenty of money available in the inheritance to do so.  Much of the drama came from spouses of siblings, rather than the siblings themselves.

In the end, the sibling who was the executor had to evict my cousin, sell the house, and then equal distributing the proceeds.  It took several years for family holiday dinners to get back to semi-normal because there was this lingering anger over the eviction of a family member.  Who was present at said dinners with the person who evicted them.

Lesson 1:  before you make your will, ask your kids/grandkids what specific items they most want to have after you die.  Don't assume, ask.  Write it into the will.

Lesson 2:  disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented.  Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.
This reminds me of a friend and her grandfather.

Her grandfather had a slow decline, to where he could not care for himself and was in a wheelchair.  He had some "money", as in - he'd owned a business and sold it.  He also owned a house and a small lot next door, which they used as a yard (but it was a buildable lot).

His will was essentially set up to split everything among his sons, but nothing to his daughters (wow that sounds familiar).  However, for the last 10-20 years, his grandson and family (wife, kids) lived with him in his house.  His grandson (his daughter's son) cared for him, bathed him, fed him, etc.  They paid rent and all utilities.

I really don't know the details of what happened when he died, but it looked to my friend that her brother and his family would be evicted, the house and lot would be sold separately.  (This is a very expensive town, there is no way they could buy a house).  In the end, the brother and family bought the house.  Now, I don't know if they had to buy everyone out, if the will was changed to leave some to him, if the will was changed to leave some to the daughters, or what.  But I'm very very happy that they were able to purchase the house, considering that he physically cared for the grandfather for so long.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #103 on: January 05, 2016, 10:23:12 AM »
Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.   


Yep.

My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.
My parents divorced when I was a teen.  My mom left with literally the clothing on her back.  I moved in with her 6 months later, at the end of a school year (had to change schools).

She was still a little bitter, decades later, of the stuff she left there. 

My dad died about 20 years after the divorce.  My mom REALLY wanted her corn dishes.  She had done ceramics for a few years, and had these dishes shaped like ears of corn, plus a platter, that she had made.  Well, I flew back for my dad's burial.  His will told my sister the executor to just "sell everything and divide the proceeds 7 ways".  Let me tell you, my dad was the original Mustachian.  There was not a single item in that house worth selling.  Really.  The walls still had dark wood paneling.  The carpet in the living room was multicolor shag from 1971 (this was 2008).  She expressly told everyone at the house after the burial "take what you want, the rest is getting dumped".

Long story short, I got my mom's corn dishes for her.  She passed a few years ago too, but I think I might end up with them someday when my stepfather passes.

Best part about that burial day was going through a closet and finding a hanging clothing bag.  Unzipped it to find one of my sister's prom dresses from the 1980s.  Argued about whether it was hers or not.  Anyway, pull out the dress and find my dad's Army uniform behind it, from WWII.  What a treasure.  We could have easily tossed the bag and never known it was there.

Also: selling the house was pretty easy.  Sold full price within a week, in rural PA.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #104 on: January 05, 2016, 10:53:33 AM »
Wow what an epic thread!

Quote from: padded hat
Dewey Cheatum and Howe

Gack I nearly peed myself with that one. The best part is that I know two guys (Dewey and Howe) who kind of really look alike and really really act alike and they are both pricks in a too-smart-fer-yer-own-good but still impishly likable kind of way. Ooohh, if only my name was Cheatum and we were all JD's, not PhD's. Besides the awesome hilarious pun, I will never be able to think about these two guys in the same way again since I know realize that they were so obviously twins separated at birth.

lets call her Grace.
because its a nice name.

and she was my grandmother.

This spoke to me.
One of my grandmother's was like this.

Let's call her Grace, too.

My Grandmother Grace got tossed out of her nursing home for biting another resident during a grannies-with-walkers full contact cat fight, Lord rest her gentle soul.

Lesson 2:  disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented.  Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.

Sage advice, Sol, and honestly I had never much thought about it before. I shall now try very hard not to die with any.

Daleth

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #105 on: January 05, 2016, 10:54:15 AM »

Hiring a lawyer is always best when it comes to doing your will. It's not a big investment for most people, and if it is expensive, that means your estate and your plans for it are complicated--in other words, you were all but guaranteed to screw it up if you didn't get a lawyer.

I would personally say you can get away with something like ZegalZoom or Quicken Wills if you're young with limited assets and no kids.  Once you start getting material assets and kids are in the picture, a will and trust are the way to go.

I completely agree. I wasn't even thinking of young people with no kids and minimal assets, since they generally don't do wills at all and there's no great tragedy if they fail to (no kids left unsupported, etc., and if they're married and die young, the spouse will typically get at least half if not all the assets automatically). But yeah, as soon as you're out of that demographic, you need a real lawyer, a will and a trust.

Some employers offer legal insurance or prepaid legal plans as part of open enrollment.  They're normally a horrible deal, but they turn into an excellent deal if you use one to get a trust put together.  We did this last year, and it was well worth it.  I think we spent less than $200 for a full will, trust, and related power of attorney.

Wow, that's a great deal!

plainjane

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #106 on: January 05, 2016, 10:57:45 AM »
Luckily this problem is fixing itself, my kid bro turns 18 next week.

I don't think this problem fixes itself unless your parents made that portion of the will time-sensitive.  You might want to check that they're doing a new one.

Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive. 

It's a very minor thing, but when my grandmother was going to downsize, we were asked if there was anything we wanted.  I mentioned a knickknack that I had always loved, and apparently I was the only person to mention, so that was fairly easy (they also gave me a second item that was similar to the first which I hadn't known about but was arguably cooler). 

However, there was another sentimental thing that I couldn't have asked for while she was alive.  I mentioned it after she passed (she never got out of the hospital to do the downsizing move), but it had "disappeared".  Some things went missing during the open house, and I really hope it was taken by someone who knew why it was important, rather than a random thief.  My Dad implied it was a family member, but even years later it annoys that they won't just admit it.
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Wilson Hall

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2016, 11:09:28 AM »
Step-dad actually gave us great advice about sentimental items – if you really want it, talk to them while they are alive.   


Yep.

My spouse recently collected the single household item he had hoped to inherit from his grandmother. She is still alive and healthy but is in the process of decluttering the house. As far as we know, no one else was coveting this piece, and spouse, who has never asked for or received anything else, is happy and content. He says if he inherits anything after his grandmother's passing, it will be icing on the cake.
My parents divorced when I was a teen.  My mom left with literally the clothing on her back.  I moved in with her 6 months later, at the end of a school year (had to change schools).

She was still a little bitter, decades later, of the stuff she left there. 

My dad died about 20 years after the divorce.  My mom REALLY wanted her corn dishes.  She had done ceramics for a few years, and had these dishes shaped like ears of corn, plus a platter, that she had made.  Well, I flew back for my dad's burial.  His will told my sister the executor to just "sell everything and divide the proceeds 7 ways".  Let me tell you, my dad was the original Mustachian.  There was not a single item in that house worth selling.  Really.  The walls still had dark wood paneling.  The carpet in the living room was multicolor shag from 1971 (this was 2008).  She expressly told everyone at the house after the burial "take what you want, the rest is getting dumped".

Long story short, I got my mom's corn dishes for her.  She passed a few years ago too, but I think I might end up with them someday when my stepfather passes.

Best part about that burial day was going through a closet and finding a hanging clothing bag.  Unzipped it to find one of my sister's prom dresses from the 1980s.  Argued about whether it was hers or not.  Anyway, pull out the dress and find my dad's Army uniform behind it, from WWII.  What a treasure.  We could have easily tossed the bag and never known it was there.

Also: selling the house was pretty easy.  Sold full price within a week, in rural PA.

Good story, mm1970! Thank goodness that clothing bag didn't get thrown out.

I especially like your description of the house, '70s swag carpet and all. There's been a bit of grumbling in one branch of my family for the opposite reason: a house that has been partially remodeled after a widowed family member remarried. The new spouse has caught all the blame for updating the home. Clearly, the grown children think it's a slap in the face to the departed.


Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #108 on: January 05, 2016, 11:15:53 AM »
I also wish to add that this thread has reminded me that I need to use the words "hectored" and "hectoring" more often.

Also, I witnessed the "why didn't you just sell your house before you died!" squabble when my brother's grandmother-in-law died. (Aside: Am I the only one having trouble following some of the relationships in this thread?)

She left her small house & surrounding fair amount of rural property to be evenly divided between something like 10 grandchildren (who were all grown and had spouses and their own children). Although it was only worth something like $110K total (that's total, not each), her heirs simply could not agree on what it was worth or what to do with it. I don't know if it was legal entanglements that held up everything or if there was some unspoken moral obligation to reach consensus before doing anything.

Some wanted to fix up the house, subdivide the land, and sell it in smaller plots to the highest bidders, some wanted to sell it "as is" as quickly as possible to the first bidder, some wanted to sell it only if someone in the family bought it, some family members wanted to buy it but thought it was worth less than the "selling" family members thought, and some wanted to never sell it at all. Protracted bickering ensued.

Threshkin

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #109 on: January 05, 2016, 11:21:56 AM »
Parents divorce 40 years ago.  Two children, adults at time of divorce.  Son was 18, Daughter is several years older.

Father remarries shortly after.  Daughter "hates" step mother (SM), tries to convince Son of same.  Minimal contact between Father and daughter.  Fast forward 35 years.  Father has had a good life, SM had successful career and enabled Father to live a good life.  Father was very happy with his life but was disappointed with Daughter because she never did anything with her (very expensive) college education.  Father's relation with Son is not close but good.  Father is proud of Son's accomplishments despite no college degree. 

Father contracts terminal cancer.  SM provides all care.  After Father dies, before will is read, Daughter informs SM that she will come to collect Father's possessions, completely ignoring 35 years of marriage and SM's loss.  SM refuses.  Will is read, all Father's assets are left to SM except for equal, small (low 5 figure) tax-free cash bequests to Daughter and Son.

Back to Mother.  Daughter has limited contact with Mother.  Lives out of state and only talks when Mother calls Daughter.  Mother is sad about this.  Son asks Daughter about this and is told it is "too hard" to talk to Mother.  This goes on for roughly 40 years.

Fast forward 2 years from Father's death.  Mother suffers catastrophic but not life threatening illness and has to go to nursing home.  Mother lives in same town as Son so Son takes care of all arrangements.  Sister comes out to visit but is not interested in spending  time with Mother.  Instead Daughter is only interested in Mother's possessions.

Acrimony ensues.  Son tells Daughter that he is not interested in Mother's possessions, he is concerned about Mother.  Daughter takes this to mean that Son will "throw out" all of Mother's possessions.

Mother, Daughter and Son meet.  Mother tells children to split possessions equally between them except for one higher-value item that is given to Son's wife specifically.  Daughter proceeds to pack up everything she wants with little to no consideration for Son's desires and with no inventory of what she is taking.

Son is working and caring for Mother.  Daughter visiting, focused on packing everything she wants and does not have "time" to go see Mother.  Son is pissed off and tells Daughter to get her priorities straight.  Much drama ensues.  Daughter states she "is only trying to get stuff to remember her happy childhood."  Implies that Son is reason for parents divorce.  Daughter is also upset that Mother chose to live near Son despite the fact that Daughter never communicated with Mother for 40 years.  Son is upset that Daughter is focused on taking mothers possessions when Mother is still living and needs comfort from both children not just Son.  Daughter leaves with possessions and is not expected to return soon.  Typically she only visited Mother for a few days once every 3-5 years.  Remaining household possessions Daughter does not want are left for Son to deal with.

Mother has limited assets which will be sucked dry by nursing home costs within a year.  Both Daughter and Son are comfortable financially.  Daughter has less assets but has good cash flow from husband's pension and SS.  Son has good assets and is still working.

Daughter has no children.  Son has two children and one grandson.

Summary: Daughter is only interested in "things" despite having no heirs.  Son is caring for Mother.  Mother still does not understand why Daughter does not call or visit her. 

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2016, 11:48:01 AM »
Lesson 2:  disposing of real estate is difficult, and potentially more so if it's rented.  Unless you're stewarding a family estate/castle, try to die without any.

Sage advice, Sol, and honestly I had never much thought about it before. I shall now try very hard not to die with any.

This might be great advice for mustachians, but for the general public probably not. Your primary residence is exempt from Medicaid's assets limit (generally speaking and with some limitations), so you could easily run into a situation where having the heirs sell the home means that they get the proceeds, where if it had been sold during the owner's life, that money would have gone towards long-term care costs.

PS: Dewey, Cheatum and Howe is an old, old, old joke. :)

paddedhat

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2016, 12:34:34 PM »

PS: Dewey, Cheatum and Howe is an old, old, old joke. :)

Yep, I first saw it on the Three Stooges,  IIRC. Later Click and Clack credit the firm as being their legal council, while reading their totally silly credits, following each episode of Car Talk.

UnleashHell

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2016, 12:35:20 PM »




lets call her Grace.
because its a nice name.

and she was my grandmother.

This spoke to me.
One of my grandmother's was like this.

Let's call her Grace, too.

My Grandmother Grace got tossed out of her nursing home for biting another resident during a grannies-with-walkers full contact cat fight, Lord rest her gentle soul.
.

LOL
Grace was ejected from bingo for attacking someone with her handbag.
Apparently it wasn't the first time because she was banned after that.


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MishMash

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »
oh man there are so many!

My Grandmother was crazy as a freaking loon, and NASTY to boot.  Sheliterally told my mom when my sister was dying that the brain cancer was my moms fault because she took the baby to the hospital, she was kicked out of ALL of the senior centers, senior buses, convenience stores, and grocery stores in her town for being a nasty cow to everyone, and was even kicked out of the hospital on Easter after throwing a bag of frozen pearled onions at my father who had just been admitted to ICU for a collapsed lung while screaming at him how she wanted her damn 85c for her "portion" of dinner since he ruined it.

Mom STILL bent over backwards to help her out as she was mom's only family.  My worthless brother was ALWAYS GM's favorite, he could do no wrong and was just the "misunderstood" black sheep of the family (for the record, my brother is now 45, and has been living with my mom for the past 10 years).  well mom had given my GM a car (our old one when the fourth child, me, was born) paid her rent in the old folks home etc over the years.  GM passes away and there isn't much of an estate, but what WAS left was a note to my mother that she better pay for her God Damn funeral and that she'd left all her life insurance to my brother (who was at the time married, it was about 50k).  My parents were always poor due to my dads non stop health issues so mom approached brother and his wife to ask for 2k of the life insurance for a cremation and head stone.  My brothers ex wife promptly told my mom to fuck off, they had earned the life insurance money and that GM wanted mom to foot the bill.  They promptly took a very expensive vacation and exactly one year later they declared their SECOND bankruptcy together.

We're currently dealing with drama on my husbands side over his grandfathers estate...we'll see how bad that drama gets.




Cressida

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2016, 01:26:38 PM »
Holy cow, there is some pathological behavior in this thread.

DH's dad called him up a couple of years ago to inform him that he was being removed from the will because we don't have kids. DH doesn't care about an inheritance, but he was understandably pissed off, on principle.

There was never going to be much, even before considering that DH's dad + spouse have a zillion grandkids. But recently they sold their house and used the proceeds to apply to a retirement community that also provides assisted living and nursing home care, so now I expect there to be exactly nothing.

Like I said, we don't care (and didn't even before we were disinherited, ha), but DH's sister is pretty pissed. She and her husband have been foreclosed on twice yet always seem to have two new SUV loans - you know the type.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2016, 03:17:31 PM »
I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50. It looked like the daughter who was not attached to it would prevail and buy them out because she had more material assets, but it ended up my husband's mother (and father) were able to buy her out, because they had saved yes! f-u money. Sadly the sisters' relationship was already strained before the mother's death, and now the other sister no longer speaks to her. Sad. This really underlined to me the importance of money for these power dynamics.

Another story not quite as bad, is my great grandfather died, and in addition to some blue chip stocks, my mother inherited some piece of furniture (armoire?) from his house that she always admired. But, she never went to get it or arrange to have it shipped (different city). Some 15 years later she gets around to visit and that and the other pieces of family furniture were gone (presumbably sold by the uncle's wife). My mother was shocked and outraged that they sold the family furniture, but for some reason find it slightly humorous. From what I remember the furniture in his house was big dark-stained hulking pieces (think Addams family). 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 03:19:43 PM by partgypsy »

Beaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2016, 04:08:33 PM »
I sincerely hope I never have anything to contribute here. Posting to follow the gossip.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2016, 04:13:30 PM »
^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.

DH's dad called him up a couple of years ago to inform him that he was being removed from the will because we don't have kids. DH doesn't care about an inheritance, but he was understandably pissed off, on principle.

Oh no! That's exactly what Grace the Biter did to my aunt (Mom's youngest sister). Right there in front of us all announced that she wasn't leaving anything at all to that sister because, in her exact words, "you don't have any heirs." Sounds bitchy, right? Well now consider it in context: this particular aunt of mine did in fact have a son. He was tragically born with x-linked muscular dystrophy that caused a lifetime of progressive disability until he died in his teens a few years before this conversation.

So, when Grace started to get batty a few years later and my aunt decided to start slyly pilfering whatever she wanted while Grace was still alive, it actively pissed off my Mom and other aunt, but I always felt that Grace basically deserved it. Ironically, my Mom has finally had the nerve to get rid of every single item that Grace foisted upon her with a big song-dance-and-guilt trip over many years.

And yes, I'm sure Grace the biter, like any 3-year-old enrolled in a new preschool, also was granted clemency for multiple incidents involving bite wounds before they finally tossed her out.

But I can't even come close to winning the meanest Grandma contest with Grace the biter. That award goes go the Grandma of this guy I used to work with, who had a continuous stream of the most outrageous stories of old lady evil because he continued to go over there every week to mow her lawn, drive her to the store, etc. He was constantly putting himself in the line of fire by bringing her little presents that she would request. When presented, the item ended up drawing her wrath because he was being "so cheap!" by buying exactly what she said she wanted. Pretty sure this guy was also one of the original mustachians, so he neither needed nor wanted a penny from her. Perhaps he kept going over there week after week just to have another story to tell at work?

mikefixac

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2016, 04:33:44 PM »
When my wife was a child, her family was in a car accident and she (my wife) went through the windshield. Family recieved money damages because of her injuries.

With those monies, wife's family was able to afford a deposit on a house. It was by owning that home, they started on the path to a solid middle class life.

Because of that, wife's parents have said that wife gets the house and then the rest is split 50/50 with her other sibling. Wife told other sibling, don't worry, we're splitting everything down the middle, including the house. She's a good girl.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 04:46:39 PM by mikefixac »

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2016, 04:37:38 PM »
My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.

Hmm. I'm adopting my daughter out of foster care as a teenager, it's very likely that I will adopt more, and since I'm adopting teenagers (as opposed to the more fashionable babies or toddlers) it's probable that one or more will reach the age of majority, "aging out of the system", before the adoption is finalized. That wouldn't make them any less a son or daughter of mine. Now, my parents for a variety of logistics reasons aren't going out of their way to be welcoming or inclusive, but if they were to preemptively disinherit one of my kids for being adopted, or for being adopted after their 18th birthday because of administrative nonsense beyond their control, it would really piss me off.

I really don't care what my parents do with their money, and although they're rather affluent I don't expect an inheritance because they make stupid investment decisions. Even if they die in a non-broke condition, for me it's not about the money. It's about control. I don't let my parents manipulate me while alive, so I'm not going to let them do it after my death. I'm not a fan of manipulative "dead hand" stunts to control what heirs do with an inheritance.
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hernandz

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2016, 04:39:09 PM »
My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.

Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter.  Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water.  All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief.  Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family.  All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs.  Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI. 

Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again.  Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy.  My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ..."). 

So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property.  I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.

My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck. 


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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2016, 04:52:44 PM »
^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.

Even if it's the only known door to Narnia, I agree.
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Vanguards and Lentils

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #122 on: January 05, 2016, 04:58:41 PM »
I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50.

Protip: If it's just between two people, there is an optimal way to split things 50/50. First note that selling the property and splitting the proceeds DOES benefit both parties equally; however something feels "wrong" with this approach since one was more attached to it than the other. And it might not be optimal if the property were, e.g., worth $70k to her, but she only received $50k as her share of the sale.

The best way to do it is to have each daughter make a silent bid (they could simultaneously exchange slips of paper on which they wrote their bid amount) to decide the winner. Then the winner gets to have the property, and gives some cash to the loser. With numbers, this might work as

A bids $70k
B bids $60k.

Then A gets the property, and sends $70k/2 = 35k to B. In the end, A feels like she received $35k and B feels like she received $35k, and neither "envies" the other's position.

BlueHouse

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2016, 07:51:40 AM »
My brother has lately been noticing little bits and pieces of family history around my house.  I finally have a house with room to display some of these items that I've been storing (in my own closets) and carting around move after move for over 20 years.  The items are completely worthless and believe me, no one wanted them when they died.  They aren't even very pretty, so usually I put them on the top shelves of cabinets as a little quirk when opening a cabinet door (makes me smile, and stops me from buying other stuff to put on the top shelf of cabinets that I can't reach anyway). 

The last time he was here, he kept complaining that I got "all the family heirlooms".  I finally said "take them.  take whatever you want."  It was then that he (and I) realized (again) that neither of us really wants any of it. 

As an example, the last item that brought this out was an ugly-ass ceramic flower pot, in the shape of a donkey toting a cart (the pot part).  My grandmother always kept it on her kitchen table with African Violets in it.  It's so ugly, that it's somewhat appealing.  Anyway, it always makes me laugh.  So that flowerpot goes from the top shelf in my kitchen cabinet to on my kitchen table about once per year.  My friends LOVE it when I put it out, because it is so NOT me.  I have a mostly-minimalist house and this thing looks so out of place that you cannot help but stare at it and admire the crazy of anyone who likes it. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #124 on: January 06, 2016, 09:34:18 AM »
^^I'm sorry, but if someone leaves a big hulking piece of furniture sitting in someone else's house for one year (let alone 15), then that person fully deserves to discover that it has disappeared.

Even if it's the only known door to Narnia, I agree.

I agree. That's why I found it humorous. People get weird when people die. They want to grab a piece of them in the form of some memento that gets blown out of proportion.
For my family, the most important thing to me, was my piano music sheets, one of my grandmother's crocheted blankets- done and done), and family photos. I visited my Mom a few years ago and I wanted to take some personal effects of mine. It was about 5 inches of paperwork (first stories I ever wrote, drawings, school reports, sat, gre test results) stored in a cubby labeled with my name. She had thrown them out, though cubbies with the other kids' name still had their stuff. And she still had entire file cabinets filled with 20-40 year old papers of her own. She wouldn't give me any family photos or let me make copies. So I already know there is nothing in the house that I want. My father lives in an efficiency apartment. He allowed me to make a copy of a couple family photos (there is only a few) and so that's done. Neither has a will. It will be a mess when my Mom dies, for multiple reasons.   
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 09:35:57 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2016, 09:37:00 AM »
I feel kinda glad that there isn't any nostalgic memories associated with anything my family members own. There might be some squables about finances, but I trust my siblings to be reasonable. It also helps that both of them have business-degrees, I suspect that they may be a pain if it comes down to negotiating, but I'm sure we can settle in such a way that everyone's happy.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2016, 09:42:04 AM »
Some of the stories are truly sad.

I know when my paternal grandmother passed there was some drama but my parents refuse to share any of the details with my brothers or myself.

Pigeon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #127 on: January 06, 2016, 10:05:44 AM »
You people have officially ruined the name "Grace" for me.

onlykelsey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2016, 10:08:46 AM »
When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter). 

Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus.  and I still talked to him for several years after that!  Idiotic.

Pooperman

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2016, 10:10:55 AM »
I'm an only child, and both parents have remarried. I have 2 step siblings on my father's side and none on my mother's. All four grandparents are still alive and well into their 80s as well.

My paternal grandparents are fairly wealthy AFAIK. The will, from what I remember seeing when I was a kid (so it may have since changed, I'm not sure) will split it 33% to each of the three children and 1% split between the 7 grandkids. I don't care if I see any of that money since I already have the inheritance I want. I am the custodian of family documents (pretty much intact) going back nearly 150 years. Civil War pension documents, WW1 enlistment record, wills, property deeds, etc. I doubt there will be any kind of fight between the kids, but if there is it'll be my uncle.

My maternal grandparents do ok but aren't on the same level of wealth as far as I can tell. No clue how they'll do things since their three kids are all well off. I don't think anything will happen there unless there's something with a cousin or two, which I hope won't happen.

As of yet, no issues in my family

DW's family is another matter. I know there's been some stuff that happened between some of her cousins, aunts, and stuff like that over inheritances. I'm not sure of any of the details though beyond the instance where one of her cousins that wanted the insurance money before his mother was even cold. He's an only child so there's no infighting, just greed. If there're any issues in the future, they'll come from her brother's wife (and I think the chances are pretty high of something happening knowing how she is).

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2016, 10:28:11 AM »
I accidentally stumbled onto this topic and sweet Christmas, what is WRONG with people?

My dad has some money set up (I think he was Mustachian before that was a thing) in trusts and investments and whatnot, but he knows that we give zero fucks about it, so he thinks it's hilarious to constantly tell me and my sister "I'M SPENDING YOUR INHERITANCE!" every time he buys something.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2016, 10:36:39 AM »
Just remembered another goodie...

Quicky background: both from poor/uneducated rural families, my grandparents worked themselves like dogs to run a gas station/mechanic shop/dry goods store in their small town, and ended up being very comfortable in their old age. 5 children, one son deceased, one living son (asshole uncle, or AU for short), 3 daughters (one my mom, one lazy/slightly dysfunctional one, and one druggie/alcoholic petty criminal one).

After my grandmother passed, uncle had insisted on reading the will while standing at the gravesite before she was even buried (as per my previous story). It actually took about a week after.

Among other things, there was a large parcel of land - abut 100 acres - that had been in my grandfather's family for at least 3 generations. It was left in my grandmother's will divided by 5 - the 4 living children and the only child of the deceased son (my cousin). It was mostly wooded, used as farmland many years ago, but allowed to return to nature in the past 60 years.

I have fond memories of going out there to cut our Christmas trees with my grandparents and them farming a few acres and helping to pick turnips or corn or the like. And it was really nifty to know we'd eventually get this land with so much history and a part of our family.

AU was always a lying, money-chasing asshole. He did quite well in that he was successful, but was pretty awful to both of his parents and treated his siblings like garbage (granted, one of them was, but there were 2 very successful ones, and one that was just average). He had a reputation for double-dealing and cheating people but staying just on the right side of the law to avoid prosecution. He truly thought he was better than everyone else, and made sure you knew it too.

In any case, AU couldn't stand the idea of what he thought of as his birthright (the land) being divided out among his siblings and forced everyone into putting the land up for auction. It basically was because he refused every attempt to subdivide it or come to any sort of resolution short of him buying everyone out of their share at a pittance. So the parcel went up for auction. He was sure he would be able to swoop in and get all of the family land for nothing.

The auction company advertised it, and the rest of the heirs figured at least if they were to lose the family land, they should get something decent from it, so they were very sad, but resigned.  The thing is, in the past 50 or so years, the land had become quite valuable as it was near a lakefront area that had become highly sought after.

AU put on a great show at the auction for many minutes upping his bids to outbid the others that had showed up. But then he was outbid by a developer that intended to put in a premium resort home community. AU didn't have that kind of money, and because he thought he was such hot shit, it never even occurred to him that he might lose it. He forced the sale of the land to try to put one over the rest of the siblings because he was so greedy, and ended up costing all of them something that they should have been able to own and enjoy for many more generations.

I don't think any of the rest of the family has spoken to him since, (he'd done many horrible things over the years) and honestly all of them probably wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire.

I frequently have no idea what I'm talking about. Like now.

FIREd as of: March 6th, 2015!

Cookie78

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »
Just remembered another goodie...

Quicky background: both from poor/uneducated rural families, my grandparents worked themselves like dogs to run a gas station/mechanic shop/dry goods store in their small town, and ended up being very comfortable in their old age. 5 children, one son deceased, one living son (asshole uncle, or AU for short), 3 daughters (one my mom, one lazy/slightly dysfunctional one, and one druggie/alcoholic petty criminal one).

After my grandmother passed, uncle had insisted on reading the will while standing at the gravesite before she was even buried (as per my previous story). It actually took about a week after.

Among other things, there was a large parcel of land - abut 100 acres - that had been in my grandfather's family for at least 3 generations. It was left in my grandmother's will divided by 5 - the 4 living children and the only child of the deceased son (my cousin). It was mostly wooded, used as farmland many years ago, but allowed to return to nature in the past 60 years.

I have fond memories of going out there to cut our Christmas trees with my grandparents and them farming a few acres and helping to pick turnips or corn or the like. And it was really nifty to know we'd eventually get this land with so much history and a part of our family.

AU was always a lying, money-chasing asshole. He did quite well in that he was successful, but was pretty awful to both of his parents and treated his siblings like garbage (granted, one of them was, but there were 2 very successful ones, and one that was just average). He had a reputation for double-dealing and cheating people but staying just on the right side of the law to avoid prosecution. He truly thought he was better than everyone else, and made sure you knew it too.

In any case, AU couldn't stand the idea of what he thought of as his birthright (the land) being divided out among his siblings and forced everyone into putting the land up for auction. It basically was because he refused every attempt to subdivide it or come to any sort of resolution short of him buying everyone out of their share at a pittance. So the parcel went up for auction. He was sure he would be able to swoop in and get all of the family land for nothing.

The auction company advertised it, and the rest of the heirs figured at least if they were to lose the family land, they should get something decent from it, so they were very sad, but resigned.  The thing is, in the past 50 or so years, the land had become quite valuable as it was near a lakefront area that had become highly sought after.

AU put on a great show at the auction for many minutes upping his bids to outbid the others that had showed up. But then he was outbid by a developer that intended to put in a premium resort home community. AU didn't have that kind of money, and because he thought he was such hot shit, it never even occurred to him that he might lose it. He forced the sale of the land to try to put one over the rest of the siblings because he was so greedy, and ended up costing all of them something that they should have been able to own and enjoy for many more generations.

I don't think any of the rest of the family has spoken to him since, (he'd done many horrible things over the years) and honestly all of them probably wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire.

That's incredibly sad. There's a piece of property that my great grandparents built a homestead on that my father owns now (His grandmother sold it to him). It's a meaningful piece of land, not just for my family, but for the entire extended family descended from the original owner. My father struggles with how to include it in his will to ensure that it stays in the family for a long time to come. There's no chance my brothers or I would ever sell it, but he's more worried about divorces and vindictive ex's and such. My father never talks about wills or inheritance, except in this case as it's so important to him. I'm glad that I trust both of my brothers that something like this would never happen.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2016, 11:17:54 AM »
My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.

Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter.  Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water.  All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief.  Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family.  All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs.  Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI. 

Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again.  Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy.  My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ..."). 

So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property.  I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.

My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck.

Eventually somebody will stop paying taxes on it and the government will solve the problem for you. I think you have the right idea.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #134 on: January 06, 2016, 12:07:27 PM »
When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter). 

Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus.  and I still talked to him for several years after that!  Idiotic.
OMFG

Kitsunegari

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #135 on: January 06, 2016, 08:18:35 PM »
When my mother (unmarried to my father, and the sole earner since my sister and I were born) tragically died when my sister and I were 16 and 13, and didn't leave 100% of her assets (mostly life insurance from her job) to our father, our father tried to sue me, his high school-aged daughter, for my share (properly recognizing that "caring" for my younger sister was a cash cow he shouldn't slaughter). 

Looking back, the reason it started with just threatening vague letters from a lawyer was that he had no leg to stand on, but jesus.  and I still talked to him for several years after that!  Idiotic.
OMFG

Seriously, you won the shitty family stories competition.
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onlykelsey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #136 on: January 06, 2016, 08:20:06 PM »
Quote
Seriously, you won the shitty family stories competition.

But I haven't told you about the time he drunk drove my 6 year old sister in to a pole!  Winner all around. 

Hopefully it's not genetic.  I think it's definitely one of the reasons I'm so neurotic careful with money and men.

cautiouspessimist

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #137 on: January 07, 2016, 09:36:26 AM »
My one contribution to this thread is a piece of advice: if you’re writing a will or trust, or giving any advice whatsoever to anyone else who’s doing so, make sure that it is written to exclude anyone whom an heir adopts as an adult.

Hmm. I'm adopting my daughter out of foster care as a teenager, it's very likely that I will adopt more, and since I'm adopting teenagers (as opposed to the more fashionable babies or toddlers) it's probable that one or more will reach the age of majority, "aging out of the system", before the adoption is finalized. That wouldn't make them any less a son or daughter of mine. Now, my parents for a variety of logistics reasons aren't going out of their way to be welcoming or inclusive, but if they were to preemptively disinherit one of my kids for being adopted, or for being adopted after their 18th birthday because of administrative nonsense beyond their control, it would really piss me off.

Good for you! This is a topic I've looked into a bit more lately, and it really makes me sad how many kids age out without any family.

G-dog

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #138 on: January 07, 2016, 10:44:15 AM »
Posting to follow.

My story has no real drama or conflict, but I'll toss it out there. My mom inherited everything (not much) when my dad died. I am one of the two kids they had. My sibling is about 9 years older than me. The plan was my mom would leave everything (still not much) to the two of us, but eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling. But, then when my mom finally did get sick one last time, I understood better why my mom had cut sibling out of the will. So, in the end, I followed the will's instructions, and accepted the estate.

BTW - I was the executor too, even for a simple will, it is a PITA! It must be extremely horrid for more complex will's and estates!

Daleth

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #139 on: January 07, 2016, 11:19:49 AM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

marcela

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #140 on: January 07, 2016, 11:28:49 AM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.

"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."

G-dog

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2016, 11:41:53 AM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.

"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."

I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....

I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.

mtn

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #142 on: January 07, 2016, 12:19:47 PM »
Have seen silliness, and maturity in my family's dealings. I've also seen it done "right" and "not right".

The silliness was when my great Aunt passed. She never married. She had 9 siblings, and countless [great [great [great]]] nieces and nephews. Of all of those, only my mom and my siblings really took care of her--my mothers siblings, along with one set of their cousins, were pretty good about helping, but they all live 4-8 hours away. It was mostly mom, and to a lesser extent my brothers and I.

She was overall pretty mustachian, and I know that her estate was well over 7 figures. Her siblings were not all well off. She divided everything very fairly--it was split evenly 9 ways; if that sibling had passed, it was split evenly among their kids--so my mom was one of 5, since her mother had passed she got 20% of 11% of the estate.

Well, great aunt's sister-in-law--who is separated from my great uncle, because she is a kook--has called my mother and her cousin asking for her copy of the will multiple times. It is just silly.


As for the "right way" vs. the "wrong way", my moms mom did it the wrong way--she didn't get rid of anything. They had an auction, estate sale, gave stuff away to their cousins--all the kids took the good stuff that they wanted, but it took a year to get everything done.

My dads parents did it the right way. For about 3 years before my grandma died (in their house) they were giving stuff away, telling their kids (and grandkids) to get whatever they wanted because it needed to go. When they sold their vacation home, the furniture and everything went with it (everyone had the chance to grab whatever they wanted). Grandpa then had an estate sale, moved to assisted living, and when he died we had a couch, buffet, small table, 2 chairs, bed, dresser, and bed side table left. We rented a UHaul and took it to Vincent DePaul (thrift store) and were done with it. Total time was a week.

Pooperman

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2016, 12:26:10 PM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.

"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."

I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....

I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.

Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2016, 01:03:17 PM »
Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable? 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2016, 01:07:33 PM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.

"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."

I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....

I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.

Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).

Can you give multiple people $14k gifts?

I don't think so, because I remember my grandparents paying my parents (and dads siblings) mortgages for a couple months to get around the gift tax stuff. Which is odd, because there wouldn't have been any tax on the estate.

Pooperman

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2016, 01:27:24 PM »
...eventually got mad enough at my sibling that she removed them from the will. She told me she had done this, likely told sibling too. I wasn't sure she had, or if it was just a threat. I always thought that if it was true, when the time came I would just transfer 50% to my sibling.

For anyone who's thinking about doing something like this, remember you can't "just transfer" significant amounts of cash or property to someone--you will be on the hook for taxes on the amount you transfer, unless it's going to a spouse. Your state or country may also have a very short list of other people you can give it to without taxes--my point is, find out what your local law is if you're even remotely considering doing something like this.

IRS state that you can make tax-free gifts up to a certain amount to just about anyone.

"The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.
Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014, 2015, and 2016 is $14,000."

I had an attorney for probate, since I no longer live in the same county as my mom. I would have asked the attorney's advice. Of course, not everything in an estate is necessarily subject to probate. Why would I be paying taxes when giving something away? I can see the recipient having to pay tax....

I didn't expect or count on anything - I guess I am just glad it didn't cost me a bunch of money.

Gift tax works like this: You can give a $14k gift to me (or anyone) once per year and not have to report it. You can give me a gift for $100k and you'd only have to report $86k of it to the IRS. Of this $86k you will pay... $0 in tax unless you've exceeded your lifetime limit (somewhere about $5,450,000).

Can you give multiple people $14k gifts?

I don't think so, because I remember my grandparents paying my parents (and dads siblings) mortgages for a couple months to get around the gift tax stuff. Which is odd, because there wouldn't have been any tax on the estate.

You can give as many people as you want $14k gifts. None of them will need to be recorded with the IRS. Let's say your parents wanted to give you and your spouse $14k gifts. You could receive one from each of your parents and your spouse would as well, for a total of $52k that doesn't need to be reported. The lifetime gift exclusion is the same exclusion that is used for estates, since inheritances are treated as gifts! That's why you'd need an estate above $5,450,00 + # of recipients * $14k to pay any tax at all ;). In mustachian world, we call that 'a fuck ton' of money.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #147 on: January 07, 2016, 02:33:11 PM »
I'm not going into the whole drama, but my husband's grandmother specified that everything be split 50/50 between the two daughters. The only problem is that there were assets that there was no way could be split 50/50, in particular a piece of family land that had a cabin that the grandfather had built. But the grandmother just kept with, everything, 50/50. One daughter was sentimentally attached to the land and wanted to keep it in the family, the other wanted to either buy out the land/cabin at a discounted rate, or sell it and split the money 50/50.

Protip: If it's just between two people, there is an optimal way to split things 50/50. First note that selling the property and splitting the proceeds DOES benefit both parties equally; however something feels "wrong" with this approach since one was more attached to it than the other. And it might not be optimal if the property were, e.g., worth $70k to her, but she only received $50k as her share of the sale.

The best way to do it is to have each daughter make a silent bid (they could simultaneously exchange slips of paper on which they wrote their bid amount) to decide the winner. Then the winner gets to have the property, and gives some cash to the loser. With numbers, this might work as

A bids $70k
B bids $60k.

Then A gets the property, and sends $70k/2 = 35k to B. In the end, A feels like she received $35k and B feels like she received $35k, and neither "envies" the other's position.

I agree with everything up until the amount of the check...I'd have it be for $30K, then A feels like she bought a $35K property for only $30K, and B should have accurately reported what sHe thought the property was really worth and ought not to complain.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #148 on: January 07, 2016, 03:13:40 PM »
Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
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dandarc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #149 on: January 07, 2016, 03:16:02 PM »
Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.
I thought wills that set up trusts like this were supposed to have contingent trustees - in case first choice is unwilling or unable.  I seriously doubt you'd have to serve as trustee if you don't want to.
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