Author Topic: How money CAN buy happiness  (Read 5266 times)

dcheesi

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How money CAN buy happiness
« on: July 25, 2017, 05:09:31 AM »
One surprising way money can buy happiness, according to scientists

Short answer: pay other people to do things for you!

maizefolk

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 07:24:18 AM »
Well I'd argue this sort of makes sense. After all my plan is to save up enough money so that I can pay a whole bunch of other people to work for me so I don't have to waste time holding down a job.

Laura33

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 09:16:29 AM »
Well, I wish these experiments could be more broad.  "Spend someone else's money on a thing" vs. "spend someone else's money on a service" doesn't exactly cover the entire universe -- and limiting the analysis to which of those two options makes someone happier doesn't really answer the question of whether that sort of spending is actually the way to be happiest.  Would be interesting if they could give a broader range of choices, like giving to charity/individual, paying a bill, investing in something, etc. -- not to mention adding the counterbalance of the pain that comes from spending your own hard-earned money.

But within the limited context of this particular study:  oh, hell yes.  There are two things in this world that I completely, utterly detest:  cleaning my house and mowing my yard/weeding the garden.  Both of these come from years and years of having to do them as a child, hating every minute of it, and suffering through weekly allergy attacks to boot (and even one asthma attack).  The joy of not having to do either of these things any more is awesome -- not only do I physically feel better, it opens up hours and hours of my weekend for fun things with my family!!  My enjoyment of variouis clothes/shoes/toys I have purchased has faded a little bit, but the joy of going into Saturday knowing my whole weekend is free for whatever the hell I want never does.  So you will pry my cleaning service out of my cold, dead hands.  I have already done the math, I know exactly how much more I need in my 'stache to support these services in perpetuity, and I am more than happy with that tradeoff.

neo von retorch

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 09:35:23 AM »
Juuuust came here to post this, as I've been discussing this with some friends. (Found on Hacker News.)

A Roomba was immediately proposed. This "finding" could be construed as anti-mustachian if you try, but I'd argue that, overall, reduction of spending so that you achieve FI buys you a huge amount of time. Alternatively, I couldn't think of anything outside of work that was burdensome enough that I really wanted to "buy my way out of it." Of course, things like a drill (electric screwdriver!) save you time on projects at home, enabling you to save money and take  on projects that would be less feasible without it. So it seems like a reasonable example. I have a hard time thinking of other time-saving devices, but a few "everyday" items come to mind: washing machine/dryer, dishwasher, microwave. Oh, and car ;)

onewayfamily

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 11:06:08 AM »
I absolutely agree that paying others to do tasks that you don't enjoy or hate doing yourself will be a net-win despite the additional cost. Common examples would be mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, cleaning etc.

But there are also other ways of thinking about it - for example:
Mowing the lawn: you might not enjoy doing it with the lawn mower every week, but what about if you did it with a push-mower - getting some exercise, outside-time, sun (vitamin D) and saved the atmosphere some pollution all in one.

I think it all depends on your individual personality and personal level of 'hate' for these different errands and tasks.

neo von retorch

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 11:26:39 AM »
Yes. My friends had a big discussion, because for some of us, a Roomba seems silly. We don't spend enough time or care enough about carpets for it to make sense. But for one of us, with one main living space and a toddler spreading crumbs, but not wanting to vacuum when the baby is sleeping, a scheduled robot cleaning the house when they're not home means coming home to a clean living space, and never worrying about waking the baby. Fantastic. But personally, I enjoy mowing, and I think it would be "crazy" to pay someone else to do it. (Of course, depending on how much you spend on a mower, gas/oil and maintenance, the value of your time and how much you hate it, the equation could easily shift in the other direction. We have a used riding mower that wasn't expensive, but saves us lots of time on mowing.)

MgoSam

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 11:33:31 AM »
Yes. My friends had a big discussion, because for some of us, a Roomba seems silly.

I personally wouldn't want to spend money only to have the company turn around sell the information they receive (as innocent as the information may be).

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/25/roomba-maker-could-share-maps-users-homes-google-amazon-apple-irobot-robot-vacuum

maizefolk

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 11:38:07 AM »
I personally cannot wait for the equivalent of roomba/neato vacuuming robots for mowing the lawn. These are apparently widely for sale in the EU, but I've only found a couple of moneys in the USA and the reviews are not particularly compelling.

I don't know why, but for me outsourcing a task feels much more appealing if I can do so to a robot or computer program than if I'd going to outsource it to another person.

joleran

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 01:29:00 PM »
But there are also other ways of thinking about it - for example:
Mowing the lawn: you might not enjoy doing it with the lawn mower every week, but what about if you did it with a push-mower - getting some exercise, outside-time, sun (vitamin D) and saved the atmosphere some pollution all in one.

I have a walk-behind all-wheel drive mower to handle my hilly yard (it's hilly enough that my driveway has switchbacks).  I will absolutely pay someone to do that when it's above 90, particularly with high humidity.

surfhb

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 07:12:53 PM »
Only reason I don't pay someone to clean my house and mow my lawn is because it does not fit into my FIRE plans.     If its in your budget why would you want to do these things?    Unless it brings you joy...but that's just weird. 

Alfred J Quack

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2017, 06:05:01 AM »
Yes. My friends had a big discussion, because for some of us, a Roomba seems silly. We don't spend enough time or care enough about carpets for it to make sense. But for one of us, with one main living space and a toddler spreading crumbs, but not wanting to vacuum when the baby is sleeping, a scheduled robot cleaning the house when they're not home means coming home to a clean living space, and never worrying about waking the baby. Fantastic.
I was thinking about that when I heard about this article but after reading some things I found that 1. a robot vacuum does not replace a regular vacuum (it just delays the point where you need to do it anyway) and 2. if you have alergies you still have to vacuum your house regularly because cobwebs don't just grow on the floor...
And yes I have 2 toddlers in a house with hardwoord/stone floors with freaky amounts of cumbs.

maizefolk

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 06:48:09 AM »
Going a little off thread now, but I have been living in my current house for about three years now without owning a non-robotic vacuum with no complaints. I suspect a lot of the advice you were finding was specifically about the roomba brand of robotic vacuum cleaners (the most popular kind) which don't have particularly powerful suction.

faithless

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 12:47:17 PM »
Going a little off thread now, but I have been living in my current house for about three years now without owning a non-robotic vacuum with no complaints. I suspect a lot of the advice you were finding was specifically about the roomba brand of robotic vacuum cleaners (the most popular kind) which don't have particularly powerful suction.

What one do you use/would you recommend?

maizefolk

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 12:58:57 PM »
The one I use is a Neato. Seems to have a fair bit more powerful vacuum based on the reviews I've read online and hasn't needed any maintenance since I bought it back in 2013 other than swapping out the batteries once.

ysette9

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 01:08:02 PM »
I actually found the article to be fairly compelling. When I was younger (HS, college) I felt like I had a lot of time but little money. Now I have plenty of money and time is my very most precious resource. I feel like I have to hoard it and carefully manage it and dole it out only to the activities and people I care most about. I heard something a while back that made me stop and think: would someone looking at your life from the outside be able to identify what you value most just by watching what you do? I say I value certainly things but then don't manage to make time for them, so do I really value them? I look forward to not having to work for the express reason of finally having time for all of those other things that are 2nd priority and therefore don't get done.

We pay cleaning ladies to clean our house because we both hate it and it saves many a marital argument. WIN

I got groceries delivered last weekend because I couldn't find the energy in my 3rd trimester body to leave the house with toddler in tow and go fetch them myself. Instead we stayed at home together and played with toys in the living room. WIN

We are paying a contractor for his time to coordinate and meet subcontractors at our house to collect quotes for work we need done. Technically this is work we could do ourselves, but with one of the two of us on work travel for three weeks straight, the other single-parenting, and another baby coming in 2 months, time is not something we have much of.

That said, I love mowing the lawn so I do that on the weekends because it is fun. :)

Hunny156

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2017, 03:04:33 PM »
Add me to the list of people who are budgeting to keep their cleaning person and lawn care person even after FIRE.  I've got joint issues, so between that and the free time it allows, I prefer to keep the cleaning person, even though I will continue cleaning over and above what she handles.

Hubby used to take care of the lawn, but he already works outside in our very hot climate, so asking him to do that on his weekends too is cruel.  Also, the cost of outsourcing the work where we live is nominal, so it further incentivizes us to outsource both these tasks.

As for the robotic vacuum, I bought an E-Vacs unit for $80 a few weeks ago.  We have pets, and I was hoping it would help keep things in check between visits from the housekeeper.  So far, it's been worthwhile and impressive to see how much it picks up.  We have all tile floors, so it is easier to pick up dirt and pet hair.  I'm just hoping it lasts the test of time, but for the price paid, it was worth trying it out.  Also fun to watch the pets reaction to it, so it has some entertainment value too.  :)

GettingClose

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 04:26:12 PM »
I second the Neato.  We have one in a large house with hardwood/stone/carpeted floors, and a dog, and haven't used the standard vacuum or a broom in two years.  We do sometimes mop or damp-mop the stone and hardwood floors.  The Neato takes about 5 minutes a week to maintain, and once you've programmed in a cleaning schedule and arranged the house to not have cords from the window blinds dangling on the floor, etc., it's rarely gets itself into trouble (and will text you if it does ...)  Don't think it would work with kids around the house, though!

Rural

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2017, 08:15:32 PM »
My Roomba gets all the things from the floor, better than I do because it has a circular brush to throw things from the very corner out in front of the vaccuum. I did almost lose it because it will also vaccuum up a puddle of cat pee. I managed to save it, but it was a stinky job. Now we don't do the scheduled cleaning anymore - I look around and then push the button.


The cat had an infection, by the way, so we let him live (plus bought him blood tests and antibiotics).

mwulff

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 01:46:15 AM »
I just posted this on facebook about the article:

If you sum up the article: People who spend money to gain more personal time feel happy, especially if it removes unwanted tasks.

In a way this research semi-confirms mustachianism. We save money and don't spend to have the ultimate luxury of 100% personal time.

I wonder if there is a detectable difference in happiness between McMansion dwellers and people in small homes with regards to house-work. We have a 700 sqft house and cleaning takes 1 hour, maybe 2 if it's spring cleaning. When we visit friends I always marvel at how long it must take to clean their mansions.

So maybe the key to happiness is time, and money is one way to get some more time.

----- snip

I would love to see more research into the "buy time with money" concept and if it brings more happiness.

pancakes

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 02:16:32 AM »
My housework often isn't done and I don't spend as much time doing things I really love as I'd like. It isn't due to a lack of time though but a lack of motivation, procrastination and poor prioritisation. I'd do better to work on those things than paying someone to sweep up after me.

I mean, it would take me all of 5-10 minutes a day to keep on top of it and I could do that right now or I could sit here drafting up and posting this reply instead...

bunchbikes

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 04:14:26 AM »
I personally cannot wait for the equivalent of roomba/neato vacuuming robots for mowing the lawn. These are apparently widely for sale in the EU, but I've only found a couple of moneys in the USA and the reviews are not particularly compelling.

Yeah, I saw several of these lawn mowing robots in yards in Sweden.  Very interesting.

bunchbikes

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Re: How money CAN buy happiness
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2017, 04:16:55 AM »
So maybe the key to happiness is time, and money is one way to get some more time.

This.

Control of your time = happiness.