Author Topic: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?  (Read 15994 times)

BlueMR2

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Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)

Chris22

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Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)

Reel mowers are $12?  I fill a 2-gal gas can about 2x a summer. I have a fairly small lot, about a 1/4 acre. Throw on another $3 for a gallon for the weedwacker and couple bucks for the 40:1 oil to mix in.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

BlueMR2

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$100 for the reel mower.  I was filling my 2.5 gallon gas can every week of the growing season (20x).

Syonyk

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It might depend on where you live! And how much land you have!

(I don't intend to attack 2+ acres of cheatgrass with a reel mower, fwiw...)
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ginastarke

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GuitarStv, I was thinking the same thing. But If I wanted attention ( one of the reasons to own a supercar, apparently) I'd get a Cargo bike with lights and a cargo system, or an Organic Transit ELF (wipes up drool)

EricP

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Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)

Yet I'm sure you'll find no issue with MMM using an electric bike when that is literally exactly the same discussion as being had here.  If electric bikes are acceptable as gateway bikes and bikes for times when you were "too busy or tired to embark on a bike errand," then I see no difference in using an electric mower instead of a reel mower and rake when you are just too busy to mow the lawn by hand.

Syonyk

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Yeah, that post is kind of awkward, isn't it?

<3 my ebikes.
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JLee

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"I don't want to spend much more time than I have to on yardwork."
That's not really a rationale.

Please explain how the time savings improve your income or quality of life. If you're using the spare time to watch more TV, it's facepunch time.
I find it amusing that the primary goal of this forum is avoiding having to work for a living (allegedly to improve your quality of life), but if people want to expedite any other non-employment task it's "facepunch time".

Tjat

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I think this person hasn't read much of the blog yet, Eric.  Of course he's free to choose, he's just contradicting the message that has brought us all together here with this particular choice.

Here's a tip Chris, the things that you think will make you happy and the things that really make you happy are probably not the same.  Humans derive pleasure from overcoming challenges and accomplishing difficult tasks, not sitting on their assess all day being entertained.  Despite this, we all seem to naturally avoid difficult tasks and seek out entertaining ass-sitting options instead, to our own detriment. 

I think the "message" you speak is often distorted by those on the board that confuse it with hyper-cheapness. Reread the post discussing the difference between cheap vs frugal. While MMM would argue that it's asinine to indulge in costly convenience due to laziness/indifference, it is quite another to make an expenditure designed to maximize happiness/free time.

In this case, the poster is trading an amount of money he deems appropriate to not spend hours each week doing the same thing over and over again in scorching heat. For all we know, he has limited time outside of work to spend with his family or other hobbies. In this case, and assuming the poster isn't in hair on fire debt, a tradeoff of money for time seems to make sense. Alternatively, sacrificing happiness in order to be a martyr for the musings of a financial internet blog seems rather foolish.


Chris22

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Thinking back, it isn't even money. My lawnmower and string trimmer were a housewarming present from my FIL when we moved into our first house (total cost maybe $500).  I added a blower attachment and edger attachment for the weedwacker, each ~$50-75.  And I spend about $20/yr on gas to run it all. So what's the big deal??  There is no money savings, figure I take care of the yard 1/2 the year (not in winter) I'm at about $1/wk to buy 1-2 hours of weekend back. What kind of fool doesn't take that payback?!?
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

rocketpj

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We see a few of those cars around here sometimes - there is a quiet community of very rich/celeb types who live on the Sunshine Coast in BC.  Or at least they keep houses here. 

My older boy always oohs and aahs when he sees one.  I always say more or less the same thing - if I owned one of those I'd sell it and not have to work anymore.  He doesn't get it (yet), but then he's 10.  Wait until he starts working at anything.

BlueMR2

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I think the "message" you speak is often distorted by those on the board that confuse it with hyper-cheapness. Reread the post discussing the difference between cheap vs frugal. While MMM would argue that it's asinine to indulge in costly convenience due to laziness/indifference, it is quite another to make an expenditure designed to maximize happiness/free time.

Perhaps the problem is the varied position on the FIRE spectrum.  I tend to think of everyone as "hair on fire", where trading even a few dollars for time is facepunch worthy.  I'm used to seeing people saying "oh, it's only $20 here and $20 there" or "I'm worth it/the family is worht it" as they dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.  However, if you're already FIRE, there's no reason to NOT spend the money.  You're already free...

Melody

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k. Why anyone would spend $280k  on a car i don't know. I have a few friends with Nissan 50 and Toyota 86 and those are nice cars, but these friends are engineers on $200k salaraies who paid cash, so while I wouldn't do it personally it's not crazy.

Drew664

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Glad I don't have the need for speed! Spendy hobby.

Has anyone ever rented a super car?

whydavid

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Thinking back, it isn't even money. My lawnmower and string trimmer were a housewarming present from my FIL when we moved into our first house (total cost maybe $500).  I added a blower attachment and edger attachment for the weedwacker, each ~$50-75.  And I spend about $20/yr on gas to run it all. So what's the big deal??  There is no money savings, figure I take care of the yard 1/2 the year (not in winter) I'm at about $1/wk to buy 1-2 hours of weekend back. What kind of fool doesn't take that payback?!?

I'd take it, and most others probably would, too..."Mustachian" or not.

I think there are some good counter-arguments from MMM and others, but only you can tell if they really apply to you:

1) It's exercise...people pay upwards of $50 a month for gym membership to get exercise, so why not get it in the form of yard work (the nature of yard work would force you to exercise regularly as well as to get outdoors)? May or may not apply to any given individual depending on how they spend the rest of their time, their physical condition, etc.

2) If you don't want to mow a lawn, then don't have one.  I am assuming you have a good reason for having a lawn.  As it turns out, we didn't, so we got rid of it.  I didn't particularly care for it, it attracted mosquitoes en masse, it was in the front yard where we don't go for recreation, and the effect on my water bill was several hundred dollars per year.  Some people actually utilize their lawns, so this decision would be more difficult...for us it was easy.

3) Are you really doing something more valuable with the time saved?  For you, it sounds like you enjoy family time on the weekends when you aren't cutting grass by hand...good for you, and an easy decision I think.  If the alternative was sitting in front of the idiot box watching reruns, I would advise you to cut the grass by hand.


Even MMM uses a range of pneumatic and cordless (woah, talk about luxury!) tools, 2 cars, electric bikes, a clothes washer, a gas oven (threw these last two in to ward off any "yeah, but those are just for work/blog purposes" comments), and a host of other things that cost money but save time and effort.  I think the message is not following this to the extreme, and to avoid cutting out all discomfort from your life.  Mowing the lawn with powered tools is not necessarily harmful in isolation, but if you extend this logic to every other decision and end up on your ass all day moving from chair to chair and enjoying how 'convenient' your toxic life has become, you've got a problem.  Only you can judge where you fall on that continuum, and in the meantime I'm just happy to have fellow forum-goers who will challenge each other on this.


MgoSam

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?

JLee

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

MgoSam

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

Thanks, I'm not very knowledgeable about cars. Thankfully I should have a decade before I need to consider a new car.

Syonyk

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I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

They're not about being fast.  They're about being insanely fun to slide around sideways, while being stupidly well behaved in such conditions.

They ship with the same tires as a Prius - which are not, exactly, high grip tires.  But it means you can have a stupid amount of fun sliding around normal city streets if you wish.

Jeremy Clarkson loved it - and he normally won't touch anything short of about 500hp.

My random project blog - ebikes, DIY, fans, and more: http://syonyk.blogspot.com

JLee

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I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

They're not about being fast.  They're about being insanely fun to slide around sideways, while being stupidly well behaved in such conditions.

They ship with the same tires as a Prius - which are not, exactly, high grip tires.  But it means you can have a stupid amount of fun sliding around normal city streets if you wish.

Jeremy Clarkson loved it - and he normally won't touch anything short of about 500hp.



Oh I know, but when a $28k+ "sports" car takes almost 8 seconds to get to 60...well, that gets a huge 'meh' from me.  Clarkson drove a manual, which is over a second faster (and in that 0-60 range, a 1.3 second difference is pretty substantial).  I wouldn't mind giving a manual-equipped BRZ a workout; I'm sure it would be much more fun.  I remember punching the auto mid-corner, expecting a little bit of tail-happy/counter-steer, and it didn't do anything except make a little bit more noise. :P

The autobox BRZ is quite slow compared with the manual, at least when the boxer engine is fresh and not fully run in.

Motor Trend reports a 7.7 sprint for their new BRZ Limited Automatic - which is not good from the 0-to-60 mph time leaders. For example, Motor Trend was able to hustle its BRZ manual to 60 mph in just 6.4 seconds.

Now, a manual FRS/BRZ on the used market...hmm. :D

RWD

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.

Sid Hoffman

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I'm surprised nobody quoted the testimony from the very next reply on that link:

https://www.quora.com/How-does-it-feel-to-buy-a-Lamborghini-or-any-dream-car-from-your-own-salary

Quote from: Todd Wascom
So back in 2012 I was finally ready to get my dream car and after much debate and test drives, decided on a Nissan GTR.

...

There came a point before the one year mark when I realized that the car wasn't what I was looking for.

I was looking for validation.

Validation that I had made it. That the kid that didn't finish college made it. The kid that was bullied in elementary and middle school had made it. The kid that once walked home down a busy highway to avoid getting beat up by a group of kids had made it. The kid that wanted admiration and love (but didn't get) from his Mom and Dad had MADE IT.

An expensive car doesn't validate anything. It's simply a symbol of your ability to buy something most people can't.

I traded the GTR in that December and never looked back.

JLee

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.

I'm running high boost on a forged motor with a GT3071 on E85..you get way more than 25% better fuel economy than I do.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 12:47:14 PM by JLee »

RWD

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.

I'm running high boost on a forged motor with a GT3071 on E85..you get way better than 25% more fuel economy than I do.

:) You might come out ahead on smiles per gallon.

Melody

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster.   If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.
My friend has the manual 86 and it's impressive :-) but agree some of the supras were awesome too. I have spent a lot of time driving an automatic Nissan sylvia 1993 model and even that is seriously fun :-) the Sylvia also benefits from having an enthusiast club here in Perth so in some ways is more desirable than a newer super/sports car as it's so recognisable as an awesome performance car.

MgoSam

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I went to Quora and re-read the guy's post and actually upvoted him. I did him a disservice the first time I read his post. If that's what he wants, go for it, his tone was completely reasonable. I don't understand cars much, but hey, he seems to have put in quite a lot of thought and is completely reasonable in his approach.

jeromedawg

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Crap... and I thought my Camry was good enough. For a while it was a nightmare car, when I almost ripped the door off it backing out of the garage as well as the AC going out on me. But now that it's back in working condition, with a fender and door of mismatched colors, that's all I could ever dream for LOL

Oh, not to mention the Bridgestone tires I just got installed on it. Those are some nice tires... probably a bit too nice for the car at this point. But hey, it's a much nicer ride than balding tires, so I think that was worth the splurge. Except, I can't really call it a splurge considering I should be getting $170 back in rebates, bringing it down to $333~
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 11:12:14 PM by jplee3 »
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SnackDog

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The problem I see with fancy cars is that they are often purchased by simpletons who just see something shiny on the road and think "i want that"!  They fail to grasp the trade-offs they are making.  Remember - every purchase is a trade-off because everyone has limited resources, even billionaires.  Every dollar spent is an opportunity to maximize value.

A supercar will cost $30-50,000 per year in total cost of ownership.  Imagine the alternative uses for that cash for investments, real estate, travel, education,  and other uses which may actually create long term value.
The habit of saving is itself an education; it fosters every virtue, teaches self-denial, cultivates the sense of order, trains to forethought, and so broadens the mind. –Thomas T. Munger

RWD

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The problem I see with fancy cars is that they are often purchased by simpletons who just see something shiny on the road and think "i want that"!  They fail to grasp the trade-offs they are making.  Remember - every purchase is a trade-off because everyone has limited resources, even billionaires.  Every dollar spent is an opportunity to maximize value.

A supercar will cost $30-50,000 per year in total cost of ownership.  Imagine the alternative uses for that cash for investments, real estate, travel, education,  and other uses which may actually create long term value.

Your numbers are pretty accurate for purchasing a new supercar. For example, the five year cost of ownership for the R8 is $154k and the SLS is $215k. Though I believe these numbers are a little on the high side since they assume 15k miles of driving per year.

Most of the cost is in depreciation and finacing (or opportunity cost). That's why it's better to buy a used supercar after it has stopped depreciating.

luigi49

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

These are problem cars.

JLee

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Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

These are problem cars.
What are problem cars?

Tjat

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I suppose my dream car is when I wake up and confidently realize my current car needs replacement. I then shop for a safe, used car that has moderate comfort and good quality. I then buy it with "my salary" (as opposed to?) after conducting a boring price negotiation, and experience slightly more thrill than buying a gallon of milk.

To me, my dream is to realize it's a pure utilitarian purchase.

attackgnome

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You know what is waaaay cheaper? Get a  10-20k (or half that if you buy used) for a performance bike like a hyabusa, ninja, gxr, etc. You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.

sol

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You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.

You say that like it's a good thing.  I have scars that suggest otherwise.

pbkmaine

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It's the "more performance than you know what to do with" that gets me. I have driven 200km/hr on the Autobahn in Germany and I must admit, that was fun. Fun tinged with fear of death. But for the 75m/hr roads here in the southern U.S.? My Ford Escape hybrid works just fine.

attackgnome

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You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.

You say that like it's a good thing.  I have scars that suggest otherwise.

It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4. Which puts a true performance vehicle within a relatively reasonable price range by comparison.

As far as risk tolerance and possibility of injury/death, that's an entirely thread. Although I would prefer that someone buying a performance vehicle for the "rush" that operating said vehicle provides is operating a vehicle that weighs 400 lbs as opposed to a 1.5 tons or more, especially if they intend to stupidly test their limits on public roadways.

Syonyk

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Oh, quick motorcycles are awesome.  :)  I stopped caring that much about performance cars after realizing that a slow motorcycle and a fast "affordable to a normal person" car are about the same, and it just gets better from there.

... my "dream car" is an '86 RX-7, rebuilt from the frame up.  I should have time and space for this in a few years.
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sol

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It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4.

While I agree on the price issue, and the acceleration issue, I might argue the point on breaking or cornering.  Motorcycles have incredible power to weight ratios, but relatively tiny tires.

zephyr911

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Thanks, I'm not very knowledgeable about cars. Thankfully I should have a decade before I need to consider a new car.
In that case, yes, the Tesla Model III (worst case, 2018 release) will be probably 10K or less by then. So will the 2017/18 Chevy Bolt, the 2017 Leaf, and several other options with 200+ miles of electric range, and fast charging will be ubiquitous.
Semi-FIREd December 2017, part-time entrepreneur, lover of puppies and saltwater.

attackgnome

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It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4.

While I agree on the price issue, and the acceleration issue, I might argue the point on breaking or cornering.  Motorcycles have incredible power to weight ratios, but relatively tiny tires.

Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

Unless....you're riding a Harley or some other 600 lb+ cruiser and haven't bothered to learn the appropriate techniques and are afraid of leaning because you might scrape your luggage or exhaust.......

Sid Hoffman

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Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

I like how you had to qualify it as "at the same price."  Well duh.  :P  Here's a video of a Nissan GT-R beating a Ducati 1098s around a circuit.  You have to spend more for cars, but in the real world I would argue it skews even more in favor of cars because in the real world, there's more bumps, gravel, potholes, squished animals, and so on.  Things that can simply take a bike right out and thus demand that a driver who intends to live a full and injury-free life go a bit slower.  Meanwhile a car with good stability control can drive through silly conditions at an alarming pace without losing control.

There's also the whole issue of side-impact crash results with motorcycles.  IIHS tests have shown me that modern cars can get t-boned by a red light runner and come out with little or no injuries.  A motorcyclist who gets t-boned by a red light runner is either dead, losing a limb, or at least looking at a serious trip to the hospital.  I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.  The risk of injury and death is simply too high.  Currently the stats show that motorcycles have 26 times the fatalities per mile as cars.  That's crazy.

RWD

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Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

I like how you had to qualify it as "at the same price."  Well duh.  :P  Here's a video of a Nissan GT-R beating a Ducati 1098s around a circuit.  You have to spend more for cars, but in the real world I would argue it skews even more in favor of cars because in the real world, there's more bumps, gravel, potholes, squished animals, and so on.  Things that can simply take a bike right out and thus demand that a driver who intends to live a full and injury-free life go a bit slower.  Meanwhile a car with good stability control can drive through silly conditions at an alarming pace without losing control.

There's also the whole issue of side-impact crash results with motorcycles.  IIHS tests have shown me that modern cars can get t-boned by a red light runner and come out with little or no injuries.  A motorcyclist who gets t-boned by a red light runner is either dead, losing a limb, or at least looking at a serious trip to the hospital.  I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.  The risk of injury and death is simply too high.  Currently the stats show that motorcycles have 26 times the fatalities per mile as cars.  That's crazy.

This reminds me of what Top Gear called the fastest car in the world (for street use): any rental car.

Syonyk

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I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.

I agree with the first part, but the second part for me is, "So that's why I spend as much of my life on two wheels as possible." :)

Mostly electric bikes lately, though once we move away from urban and suburban hell, there should be a lot more time for full on motorcycle riding again. :D  Especially taking street bikes to entirely inappropriate places.
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