Author Topic: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....  (Read 95379 times)

MrsPete

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #350 on: February 12, 2017, 12:48:56 PM »
Around here the people who spread the idea that community college is for losers ... are the students themselves.  Our guidance counselors are quite even-handed in discussing 4-year schools vs. community college. 

However, my two kids made different choices: One went straight to university, while the other opted to begin at community college.  Both were honors students in high school, and both made the right choice for themselves after high school.  I'll say this:  For the student who is emotionally and academically ready, going straight to university is the better option: 

- My kid who went straight to university was surrounded by a better peer group, had more options in terms of coursework and extra-curriculars and on-campus jobs, had much more support from the university in terms of transitioning from high school to college, and has had a much easier time planning her schedule.  She made good choices, graduated on time with honors, and is now working in her field. 

- In contrast, the kid who went to community college has encountered more trouble with administration (no help with planning coursework, even when I went with her to try to get help ... awful time registering the first time, and it was all because they hadn't checked her high school coursework), has been surrounded with more slackards who lasted only a semester, and in spite of having done everything right at the community college, she'll need 5 semesters at the university because of coursework sequencing.  Do I regret her choice? No.  She wasn't ready to leave home, and this was her best option, but it isn't "equal" to the first two years at a university. 

What do I say to my students?  I tell them the truth:  Multiple paths to success exist, and you need to pick the right one -- all paths have pros and cons, and you need to learn the truth about those rewards and costs.  That means considering your academic and emotional readiness, and one aspect of the big picture is being realistic about your finances.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 12:51:04 PM by MrsPete »

radicaledward

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #351 on: February 13, 2017, 08:45:58 AM »
There's a lot of truth in what you're saying.  "Everyone" is pushed towards college.  You didn't particularly excel in high school, skipped a lot, took the easiest classes possible, have no real direction ... of course you should go to college!  A great deal of this is our increasingly liberal society.  You just can't tell anyone that he or she CAN'T or SHOULDN'T aim high, live the dream ... even when it just isn't sensible.  So everyone is pushed in this direction, even when it's clearly not the right choice.
Liberalization has nothing to do with people getting pushed to go to college. The push for people to go to college started in the 1950's to 1960's time frame and was largely driven by the much more conservative Silent Generation. Then the push was because college was more or less a guaranteed admission to a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle. Now the push that you have to go to college is because... it's largely a business. "The Big Bang Theory" had a great bit about this that went something like this:

Quote
Administrator: What do you think the purpose of this university is?
Main Characters: /muttering/ Science?
Administrator: Money!
Howard: Told you so.

691175002

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #352 on: February 13, 2017, 10:08:24 AM »
I know a couple that asked for investment advice about 5 years ago. The women was a philosophy major and after they asked what a mutual fund was asked about getting her masters in philosophy. I almost had to excuse myself, combined the couple had about $75k in student loans and were earning about $30k. They also planned to have a baby in the next year.

I've started seeing this sort of thing a lot and the thought process of the people involved confuses me in a way that is hard to fully convey.

But what really boggles the mind is that somehow it works out.  I'm pretty sure that you can't exist cashflow and networth negative forever, but there aren't any consequences.  Are they completely financing their lifestyle with low interest rates?  Receiving government subsidies?

It seems like there is an alternative theory of personal finance where you can just buy whatever shit you want for thirty years.

Fiscal_Hawk

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #353 on: February 13, 2017, 02:48:04 PM »


c) Public education at a large state university at my hometown is 3,000-3,500 a semester.  Yes, you live at home, not the dorms. 


Not everyone has this option. For example, where I grew up the nearest state school was 2 hours away. You had to move there to live there. No living at home option. Dorms were a requirement for the first year on campus and was not cheap.

Now,  the state school is around ~8k for tuition and 10k for room and board and meal plan (again a requirement for freshmen).

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #354 on: February 13, 2017, 02:57:05 PM »
How soon does a person need to move into town to make it a "permanent" address?

I arrived in my university's town right after my enlistment in the military was complete and started the following semester - several months later.

Any time the school questioned my address, I told them this was my permanent address and nobody pressed the topic - so I did not need to live in the dorms, etc.

mm1970

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #355 on: February 13, 2017, 06:02:13 PM »
How soon does a person need to move into town to make it a "permanent" address?

I arrived in my university's town right after my enlistment in the military was complete and started the following semester - several months later.

Any time the school questioned my address, I told them this was my permanent address and nobody pressed the topic - so I did not need to live in the dorms, etc.
Depends on the state.  Sometimes a year.  Some states - like Vermont, and the University of Vermont, are particularly hard.


golfreak12

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #356 on: February 13, 2017, 10:40:30 PM »
Not sure if this gem has been posted yet...

Quote
I took out $25000 of federal loans (some subsidized and some not) for a Master's degree in Education in 1993 so that I could continue to teach and at some point not have to have a second job to make ends meet. Silly me. I have paid back over $35000 and still owe $20000. I have paid off 3 cars, each around $25000, in that same time frame. Something is WRONG.

No SHIT SOMETHING IS WRONG. Your DUMB ASS has bought and paid for three new cars in the time frame since you've borrowed your student loans. Idiot!

LOL, that paragraph made my day. Classic idiot.

Abe

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #357 on: February 14, 2017, 10:34:19 AM »
This is the exact nonsense that a lot of debt forgiveness pushers do in their own lives and are just blind to how ridiculous they sound. Stop buying so many damn cars! I sold my functional 12 year old Honda to someone for $3k. There are literally hundreds of thousands of cars like that! I wonder how many of these idiots are in my neighborhood driving Audis and BMWs...

firelight

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #358 on: February 16, 2017, 03:16:23 AM »
This is the exact nonsense that a lot of debt forgiveness pushers do in their own lives and are just blind to how ridiculous they sound. Stop buying so many damn cars! I sold my functional 12 year old Honda to someone for $3k. There are literally hundreds of thousands of cars like that! I wonder how many of these idiots are in my neighborhood driving Audis and BMWs...
But but.... If they don't drive Audis and BMWs, how will they show the world they've succeeded with their expensive degrees? Are you asking them to drive a normal car?? What will society think? </Sarcasm>

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #359 on: March 12, 2017, 03:29:42 PM »
LOL!!!!  :  )

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #360 on: March 12, 2017, 05:34:52 PM »
Are these people even real? LOL!!!!  Yea....keep shitting out babies and then wonder why you can't pay back the $$$$$ you borrowed.



I graduated in 2012 from Heald College. At the the time I had only 1 of my treasures (child of God) this year I have 4 Treasures the youngest turning 6 months this coming Saturday. I don't mind paying my student loans but as of now it's so not hard (So Speaking Life) because of the economy. Living in Hawaii doesn't help, but I should have studied more in high school or done more research for scholarships. The reason why I choose Heald College was because of the refresher courses promised after graduation. Now that heald has closed its doors in no longer have that option and I believe its not fair to us especially when we are applying for a job in our graduating field and want to refresh our minds before entering the field 😣 i don't mind paying some of my loans off BUT not the whole thing is what was promised is no longer available to me. Can any one help. This year they took our whole Fed tax for my student loans 6k+ of it and my debt is 46k+.
Mrs.Rivera    February 28, 2017    Waianae


 

I'm a mother a 3 year old and a 2 month old child. Due to my 2 month old being a premature at birth I have to stay home and care for him. School will be a bit difficult to even end this debt I have. And my plan is to remain a house wife till my boys both go to school than finish off what I started at training school, doing online courses screwed me over. If only the debt were at least payed off half way or forgiven since it was the 1st time I borrowed a student loan but didn't seem to understand the results of it not until I decided not to continue doing online courses.
Margaret    February 14, 2017


http://studentdebtcrisis.org/read-student-debt-stories/


Goldielocks

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #361 on: March 13, 2017, 12:59:57 AM »
Are these people even real? LOL!!!!  Yea....keep shitting out babies and then wonder why you can't pay back the $$$$$ you borrowed.



I graduated in 2012 from Heald College. At the the time I had only 1 of my treasures (child of God) this year I have 4 Treasures the youngest turning 6 months this coming Saturday. I don't mind paying my student loans but as of now it's so not hard (So Speaking Life) because of the economy. Living in Hawaii doesn't help, but I should have studied more in high school or done more research for scholarships. The reason why I choose Heald College was because of the refresher courses promised after graduation. Now that heald has closed its doors in no longer have that option and I believe its not fair to us especially when we are applying for a job in our graduating field and want to refresh our minds before entering the field 😣 i don't mind paying some of my loans off BUT not the whole thing is what was promised is no longer available to me. Can any one help. This year they took our whole Fed tax for my student loans 6k+ of it and my debt is 46k+.
Mrs.Rivera    February 28, 2017    Waianae


http://studentdebtcrisis.org/read-student-debt-stories/

So I read this story, and had to look up "Heald College"

"Heald College was a regionally accredited for-profit, business–career college.

Due to findings by the Department of Education of misrepresented job placement rates at certain programs[4] of Heald College from July 2010–2015, the department has made students of these programs eligible to have their debts cancelled[5] if they fill out the Department's online attestation form,[6] or mail in a printable[7] attestation form."

So, 1)  she chose a for-profit college (duh!), and then after graduation, 2) likely did not go to work in her field, but has 4 kids within 5 years of graduating.   hmmm.... 3) who chooses for-profit college and student loans when their innate temperament is for a large family and like stay at home parenting for the first few years..?!?.   and now 4) does not seem to know that they can get reduced loans if they fill our paperwork (depending on program, but I guess if she knew about this, she would have complained about how her program was excluded...).

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #362 on: March 13, 2017, 09:18:43 AM »
We've all met people like this - they are complainers who get themselves into jams b/c they do not regularly make use of logic.

Examples:

The car started making a noise so they drove it another five thousand miles and now the engine is ruined. How can that be?

Water started to drip in the second bedroom during really heavy rains so we caught it in a pan. And then they waited a year to call a roofer. Now the ceiling and roof decking is ruined. How can that be? (actually knew someone at a previous job who just closed that bedroom door and let that end of the house literally rot).

Their children kept repeatedly leaving the garden hose running for days on end next to the foundation and now a contractor reports some expensive repairs will be required. How can that be?

Real life example - a coworker reported how their grown son had problems finding a good job. Begin commiserating. A few weeks later they let it slip that he had been fired again from another job. Few weeks later more of the situation was shared. Son can get a job but can't hold it b/c their work ethic is lousy and they make far, far too many personal calls to parents.

Ah-ha! That is who is so frequently calling the coworker. Turns out son is calling to either complain about coworkers or ask for guidance from parents about their job. I met the guy once or twice. Nice guy. He just needed to be forced to think for himself. They had raised a 20 year old man-child. Nice people otherwise.

Slee_stack

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #363 on: March 17, 2017, 01:07:24 PM »

I graduated in 2012 from Heald College. At the the time I had only 1 of my treasures (child of God)
Perhaps she deserves a break due to Immaculate Conception?

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #364 on: April 09, 2017, 05:22:54 PM »
We've all met people like this - they are complainers who get themselves into jams b/c they do not regularly make use of logic.

Examples:

The car started making a noise so they drove it another five thousand miles and now the engine is ruined. How can that be?

Water started to drip in the second bedroom during really heavy rains so we caught it in a pan. And then they waited a year to call a roofer. Now the ceiling and roof decking is ruined. How can that be? (actually knew someone at a previous job who just closed that bedroom door and let that end of the house literally rot).

Their children kept repeatedly leaving the garden hose running for days on end next to the foundation and now a contractor reports some expensive repairs will be required. How can that be?

Real life example - a coworker reported how their grown son had problems finding a good job. Begin commiserating. A few weeks later they let it slip that he had been fired again from another job. Few weeks later more of the situation was shared. Son can get a job but can't hold it b/c their work ethic is lousy and they make far, far too many personal calls to parents.

Ah-ha! That is who is so frequently calling the coworker. Turns out son is calling to either complain about coworkers or ask for guidance from parents about their job. I met the guy once or twice. Nice guy. He just needed to be forced to think for himself. They had raised a 20 year old man-child. Nice people otherwise.



LOL!!!

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #365 on: May 05, 2017, 09:09:15 AM »
Here is a few new ones. The first one thinks she shouldnt have to pay her loans because she didnt get pregnant as a teen and also wants to do some traveling now.   

"I am a single teacher with a masters degree (I couldn't find a job without one) who makes $37,000 a year. I have over $60,000 in student debt mixed between federal loans, private, and parent plus. The amount of money I pay every month is over $800.00 and goes up every year. I will never be able to afford a house (or renting anything nicer than a grungy apartment), a car newer than 10 years old, or something as extravagant as traveling. I spend my summers working a second job and am considering leaving teaching because I cannot afford to live like this... but I LOVE teaching.
I did everything "right" growing up. I stayed out of trouble, I earned good grades, I went to college, I didn't get pregnant, and I went into a career that is considered public service. Yet I feel constantly beaten down and punished. I now tell my students to not attend college unless it's being paid for by something other than loans. I also tell them that earning a degree does not help acquire a better paying job.
Something needs to be done to help past, present, and future students. I need help and know many others that need help paying off their students loans. Where is my bail out? Where is my welfare program? Where is my aid? I cannot afford to pay/wait for 120 loan payments for teacher loan forgiveness, especially since it doesn't apply to my private (navient) or parent plus loans."
Author *Brittany    April 26, 2017


This guy owes $700,000 for dental school but only will pay the minimum each month.                 

"I Graduated undergrad with about 11k in student loans. Got accepted to NYU College of dentistry and ended up with another 500K in debt. Fast forward a few years, being under IBR, I am now over 700K in debt. Pretty much give up and going to stick to minimum payments.
Tim    April 11, 2017    Mansfield"    http://studentdebtcrisis.org/read-student-debt-stories/

Goldielocks

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #366 on: May 05, 2017, 09:56:15 AM »
Sofa King...

I read a few more, then this one stood out.  Crap.  This really is a problem... many people would fall into this, and unless asked to resign something when the loans are sold, I would think that my original agreement stood.



I am finishing my ninth year as a middle and high school English teacher this spring. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program forgives federal loans after 10 years of payment. I currently owe $44,000 in loans eligible for PSLF. I have not missed payments. However, at the end of this school year the PSLF program will only recognize 2 years worth of payments, meaning that I will still be another 8 years away from having my loans forgiven. I went to a state school, SUNY Potsdam, for both my undergraduate and master's degrees. I have worked for two low income public schools in the North Country. I currently teach at one of the poorest districts in the poorest county in New York State.

I am aware of the requirements for PSLF. However, due to many factors, I am still only considered to have made 2 years' worth of payments. When companies have bought and sold my debt throughout the years, I was automatically re-entered into a standard repayment plan without being informed of the change. Those payments, though higher than what is required for PSLF, are not eligible for this forgiveness program. There have been instances where this change in my requested payment plan went unnoticed by me for many months. I was under the impression that, when a new company took over my debt, nothing about my payment plan was to change. Unfortunately, the companies that have held my debt did not uphold that, and I have been punished for it. Furthermore, the current company that holds my debt, FedLoan Servicing, has told me they cannot track my debt to previous owners. In other words, all of the qualifying payments I did make to other loan holders are not being counted for me. I have read and checked and educated myself about PSLF for years. I check back to the government publications about it regularly to make sure I am on track. It was not until a few weeks ago, again, 9 years into my loan payments, that I discovered any payment made when a payment is not 'due' does not count.

...more Author *Kayla      April 3, 2017      Potsdam   

SEAKSR

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #367 on: May 05, 2017, 10:33:36 AM »
Sofa King...

I read a few more, then this one stood out.  Crap.  This really is a problem... many people would fall into this, and unless asked to resign something when the loans are sold, I would think that my original agreement stood.



I am finishing my ninth year as a middle and high school English teacher this spring. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program forgives federal loans after 10 years of payment. I currently owe $44,000 in loans eligible for PSLF. I have not missed payments. However, at the end of this school year the PSLF program will only recognize 2 years worth of payments, meaning that I will still be another 8 years away from having my loans forgiven. I went to a state school, SUNY Potsdam, for both my undergraduate and master's degrees. I have worked for two low income public schools in the North Country. I currently teach at one of the poorest districts in the poorest county in New York State.

I am aware of the requirements for PSLF. However, due to many factors, I am still only considered to have made 2 years' worth of payments. When companies have bought and sold my debt throughout the years, I was automatically re-entered into a standard repayment plan without being informed of the change. Those payments, though higher than what is required for PSLF, are not eligible for this forgiveness program. There have been instances where this change in my requested payment plan went unnoticed by me for many months. I was under the impression that, when a new company took over my debt, nothing about my payment plan was to change. Unfortunately, the companies that have held my debt did not uphold that, and I have been punished for it. Furthermore, the current company that holds my debt, FedLoan Servicing, has told me they cannot track my debt to previous owners. In other words, all of the qualifying payments I did make to other loan holders are not being counted for me. I have read and checked and educated myself about PSLF for years. I check back to the government publications about it regularly to make sure I am on track. It was not until a few weeks ago, again, 9 years into my loan payments, that I discovered any payment made when a payment is not 'due' does not count.

...more Author *Kayla      April 3, 2017      Potsdam   


Things like this irk me. I had one loan change hands six times, and as part of the hand-changing had a few "late payments" that happened because old company didn't pass my money along to new company with the loan details itself. Nightmare of contesting and banking records to prove I paid! I feel like there should be more accountability for at LEAST federally backed loans. If I loaned out money, you can be sure I would know where the borrower is with their repayments. One would think that the Feds would feel the same way, what will budget balance issues and such.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #368 on: May 05, 2017, 04:46:14 PM »
Oh gosh - what a terrible situation. I'd be mad as HELL. I'd be calling my congressman/lady and talking to the top level people about this rather than the basic operators.

Call Elizabeth Warren or Bernie. Or the media. Maybe one of them could connect them to a satisfactory solution.

DW and I worked our hindends off to pay off her master's necessary to advance in her career. Drove old cars, no vacations, etc.

I'm not sure what we would do in a HCOL area and a single income (no spouse to share the cost of the loans). 

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #369 on: May 05, 2017, 07:32:55 PM »
Sofa King...

I read a few more, then this one stood out.  Crap.  This really is a problem... many people would fall into this, and unless asked to resign something when the loans are sold, I would think that my original agreement stood.





It has been pretty well known now for a long time through T.V. news and internet news reports how these loans are screwed up for many people who have them yet millions of people every year agree to the terms and still sign up and take out more money than they can afford to ever pay back for meaningless degrees. And then they are surprised when the bill comes. I do think that something should be done but loan forgiveness is not the answer. The banks were bailed out so maybe help these idiots by at least lowering all loans to 1% interest and give some a chance to get out from under them. The banks will still make $$$ and a big part of society can move on with their lives. But people need to start putting a lot more thought into what they sign their names to and start going to colleges they can afford.

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2017, 07:49:06 AM »
We've all met people like this - they are complainers who get themselves into jams b/c they do not regularly make use of logic.

Examples:

The car started making a noise so they drove it another five thousand miles and now the engine is ruined. How can that be?

Water started to drip in the second bedroom during really heavy rains so we caught it in a pan. And then they waited a year to call a roofer. Now the ceiling and roof decking is ruined. How can that be? (actually knew someone at a previous job who just closed that bedroom door and let that end of the house literally rot).

Their children kept repeatedly leaving the garden hose running for days on end next to the foundation and now a contractor reports some expensive repairs will be required. How can that be?

Real life example - a coworker reported how their grown son had problems finding a good job. Begin commiserating. A few weeks later they let it slip that he had been fired again from another job. Few weeks later more of the situation was shared. Son can get a job but can't hold it b/c their work ethic is lousy and they make far, far too many personal calls to parents.

Ah-ha! That is who is so frequently calling the coworker. Turns out son is calling to either complain about coworkers or ask for guidance from parents about their job. I met the guy once or twice. Nice guy. He just needed to be forced to think for himself. They had raised a 20 year old man-child. Nice people otherwise.


LOL!!!

RidetheRain

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #371 on: June 20, 2017, 03:52:22 PM »
Ok, I have to defend the student loans here. I feel pretty lucky that I'm not drowning and frankly that's because my parents had their shit together.

I had no concept that I might not be able to pay back my loan. Zero. I think for a lot of high schoolers that are making this decision that was a common thought. If you follow the rules and finish high school with good grades and finish colleges with good grades then you get a job and pay back the loans.

I didn't know that sometimes you don't get a job
I didn't know your major mattered (beyond don't be in Art)
I didn't know that school costs more now than it did when my parents went to college
I didn't know that going to trade school or getting a job right out of high school was a choice

I worked full time during the summers but not at all during the year so I could focus on my education. It didn't occur to me that I would need that money for some gap time between college and getting a job. No one told me and I'd never had to worry about money in my life. Does that make me stupid? I know better now because I live out in the world and have the experience to tell me otherwise. I didn't have experience when I made the decision to take a loan and no one with experience was talking in a meaningful way.

Now, I survived because I happened to find an interest in STEM and succeeded in finding a job during the recession. I am not a common outcome. Lots of my friends went back to school for a Masters when they couldn't find a job and it was go back to school or the loans start collecting. They were buying time. I can understand that impulse.

Life is hard and people are not preparing high school students to make these decisions. So yeah, they feel like they have been lied to or are being punished because of the results.

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #372 on: June 20, 2017, 05:36:18 PM »
For those with loans that have been sold and the terms changed.

Turn the tables around.

MAKE the loan servicing company PROVE you owe the money they claim and that they have accurately accounted for all payments to all parties prior to them being involved.  Make them prove the terms they are operating your loan under are the same as the terms you signed.

That means they need to track down all the various parties and get copies of all the documents.

Until they do so, they haven't proven you owe the money so don't pay them.

Give them a few month's notice to be nice about it.

Might want to check with a lawyer or student loan right's advocate first...

doublethinkmoney

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #373 on: June 20, 2017, 06:01:18 PM »
I admit i feel a little sorry for #5.
I do too. How does a $62k loan turn into $200k?! That's insane!


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