Author Topic: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....  (Read 96837 times)

FatCat

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2015, 03:07:48 PM »
It seems that the US education model is creating a lot of ....well lets be honest.....indentured slaves.  Before you all carp on about how these people are fools and "I got out of six figure debt on Ramen noodles" remember most people are totally shit with money/finances and always will be.  Maybe basic finance ISN'T taught for a reason.

I feel like it's been planned out this way. The best worker is one that can't quit their job because they have lots of debt. Add to that the idea that you're supposed to buy a house and a new car once you graduate. I remember reading that some hiring manager said they prefer candidates with debt because they are the least likely to quit. You should have enough debt that it looks like you need a job, but not so much that you look really stupid.

Jags4186

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2015, 03:37:41 PM »
I saw a story on yahoo today about this and one of the girls was whining about her 94k student loans (now down to 75k) from NYU for her ACTING degree and how she can't act and pay back the loan and had to get a real job yada yada yada.

I'm just shocked someone gave this moron a job paying enough where she could pay back 20k.

Logic_Lady

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2015, 10:43:31 PM »
I never feel sorry for college kids. I've taught in college as an adjunct and mentored students too. The formula is not difficult.

1. Choose public in-state college. Do not go private or out-of-state unless scholarships (meaning stuff you don't have to pay back) level the playing field. You say you have a "dream" college? Here's your dream: be debt-free.


Or unless you actually want to get a degree in four years. My cousin enrolled at a state school (UC Santa Barbara). With funding cuts, the classes are so overcrowded that it's almost impossible to get into required courses. Because of this it would have taken her over six years to get her "four year" degree. So she transferred to a private school where she could actually take her classes.

Zamboni

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2015, 07:57:38 AM »
^If this ever happens to you or your children, try this tactic:

Figure out what courses you need and attempt to enroll.  If you get waitlisted or just can't even get on the waitlist, then check that section daily and keep trying to get a seat. Seats will open periodically in most classes. If it's a lab, take a seat in any section you can get that doesn't conflict with other required classes (my condolences that you are stuck in a Friday afternoon lab, but after all you are in college for classes, not heading to the beach early on Friday.)

If the enrollment stalking doesn't snag you a seat by the time the term starts, then GO to the class on the FIRST DAY it meets anyway.  Right after class go up to the front of the room in person, wait patiently for your turn, then explain to the professor that you tried to register but you had last window and couldn't get a seat but it's a required class for you. Say you'd really like to be in  their class and ask politely if there is any way they can help you get a seat. For truly required classes, many faculty will just have their departmental admin add you to the roster.  You might have to try this is multiple sections, so don't be shy about getting up and asking the instructor of the 8 am class if you can have a seat.  IN PERSON and FIRST DAY are key.  DON'T pester the professor via email or in person before classes start, don't wait until the second or third day of class.  It won't always work, but you'd be surprised how often it does work on that first day. 

Every single colleague of mine lets EVERYONE who actually shows up the FIRST day into the class. Every term I let in a few people who do this and I watched one colleague let about 20 people in.  He said right at the beginning of class "raise your hand if you don't officially have a seat in this class."  A whole bunch of hands went up and he said "well you all seem to fit in this room, so please come down after and write your name on a list today.  You're all in."

Yes, this was all at a big state school. I agree that it shouldn't be this way, but I'm also surprised at how many students just see that the class they need is full right at the moment they try to register and never try again to get a seat that term. I've had advisees email me in a panic about it.  I look online and sometimes, in fact often, there is a seat open right at that moment I'm looking a day or a week after registration ended. So I just reply "Please try again, I see an open seat in that class now and if you are quick maybe you can snag it.  If not, please keep looking daily on your own as people will drop over time." If it takes you 6 years to get a 4 year degree, then you really aren't trying hard enough to get it done.

/rant
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 12:26:16 PM by Zamboni »

MoneyCat

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2015, 08:21:33 AM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income.  I didn't know either of those things because I grew up in poverty and my parents were more interested in having me "age out" of being their responsibility than to teach me life skills.  (They also didn't have very many life skills of their own to share with me.)  It's easy to call people stupid when you don't understand the challenges they face.  I got lucky that I was able to get a job working at a credit union where I could learn about bank accounts, loans, etc. and figure out how to monetize my degree.  (I nearly didn't get the job too, because my credit was terrible at the time.)
     You can't reasonably expect someone to go out of their way to learn life skills that they don't know exist and don't know they should be pursuing, especially when the entire country drills into their heads that they are losers unless they get a college degree of some kind in a field that is personally interesting to them  (and the money will follow.  Bullshit.)  Unfortunately, America wants most young people to learn through the "School of Hard Knocks" and they end up in difficult situations like those on that web page.

Hank Sinatra

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #105 on: April 25, 2015, 10:39:54 AM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income.  I didn't know either of those things because I grew up in poverty and my parents were more interested in having me "age out" of being their responsibility than to teach me life skills.  (They also didn't have very many life skills of their own to share with me.)  It's easy to call people stupid when you don't understand the challenges they face.  I got lucky that I was able to get a job working at a credit union where I could learn about bank accounts, loans, etc. and figure out how to monetize my degree.  (I nearly didn't get the job too, because my credit was terrible at the time.)
     You can't reasonably expect someone to go out of their way to learn life skills that they don't know exist and don't know they should be pursuing, especially when the entire country drills into their heads that they are losers unless they get a college degree of some kind in a field that is personally interesting to them  (and the money will follow.  Bullshit.)  Unfortunately, America wants most young people to learn through the "School of Hard Knocks" and they end up in difficult situations like those on that web page.

Amen

clarkevii

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2015, 10:45:23 AM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income.  I didn't know either of those things because I grew up in poverty and my parents were more interested in having me "age out" of being their responsibility than to teach me life skills.  (They also didn't have very many life skills of their own to share with me.)  It's easy to call people stupid when you don't understand the challenges they face.  I got lucky that I was able to get a job working at a credit union where I could learn about bank accounts, loans, etc. and figure out how to monetize my degree.  (I nearly didn't get the job too, because my credit was terrible at the time.)
     You can't reasonably expect someone to go out of their way to learn life skills that they don't know exist and don't know they should be pursuing, especially when the entire country drills into their heads that they are losers unless they get a college degree of some kind in a field that is personally interesting to them  (and the money will follow.  Bullshit.)  Unfortunately, America wants most young people to learn through the "School of Hard Knocks" and they end up in difficult situations like those on that web page.

Well Done

Argyle

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2015, 10:55:13 AM »
+3

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2015, 12:15:17 PM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income. 

What about all the "young" people who are still signing up every day for massive school debt for degrees that are worthless when by now it is pretty much common knowledge with all the media coverage of how many college programs are a just a scam? How much longer will people use the excuse of ignorance that they didn't know any better? Also if you read the page MANY people who whine about not wanting to pay back loans they agreed to the terms of are well into their 30's-40's or even older. 

Argyle

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2015, 12:22:05 PM »
If they really understood that it was a scam, why would they sign up?   The very fact that they're signing up shows that they think the programs will lead to a useful degree.  Remember that the programs are doing everything they can be to persuasive.  Add in many cultural messages about how everyone should get a college degree, plus the lack of direction for those who don't want one ó it's not very clear in our culture how you could make a good living without one.  (I know you can.  I mean that it's much less well publicized that the benefits of a degree.)  Among my students I see that everyone hopes a credential like a degree will be the key to a well-paying job.  And it's not as if 18-year-olds or 20-year-olds have vast and deep experience of the world. 

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2015, 12:27:49 PM »
There are MANY "young" people who go to college just to delay having to be an adult and live in an adult world with adult responsibilities. Even before college cost got to where they are now I know of so many people who went to college for this reason and when they finished school went on to do nothing even remotely associated with went they went to school for and got a job that did not require a degree. Also you didn't address the fact that many of there people who dont want to pay back what they borrowed were already well into adulthood and should have know better.   

Hank Sinatra

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2015, 12:41:59 PM »
Quote
Also you didn't address the fact that many of there people who dont want to pay back what they borrowed were already well into adulthood and should have know better.   

 That's because  nobody's talking about those people. Not the topic of conversation

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2015, 04:10:30 PM »
Quote
Also you didn't address the fact that many of there people who dont want to pay back what they borrowed were already well into adulthood and should have know better.   

 That's because  nobody's talking about those people. Not the topic of conversation


Yes they are and yes it is.  I am the OP of the topic and no where in the original post does it say it is just about young adults. As a matter of fact if you read the posts before you commented you would have seen that there is many here talking about people of all ages trying to skip on paying a loan back that they agreed to terms when they wanted the $$$$$. 

MrsPete

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #113 on: April 25, 2015, 05:56:08 PM »
^If this ever happens to you or your children, try this tactic:

Figure out what courses you need and attempt to enroll.  If you get waitlisted or just can't even get on the waitlist, then check that section daily and keep trying to get a seat. Seats will open periodically in most classes. If it's a lab, take a seat in any section you can get that doesn't conflict with other required classes (my condolences that you are stuck in a Friday afternoon lab, but after all you are in college for classes, not heading to the beach early on Friday.)

If the enrollment stalking doesn't snag you a seat by the time the term starts, then GO to the class on the FIRST DAY it meets anyway.  Right after class go up to the front of the room in person, wait patiently for your turn, then explain to the professor that you tried to register but you had last window and couldn't get a seat but it's a required class for you. Say you'd really like to be in  their class and ask politely if there is any way they can help you get a seat. For truly required classes, many faculty will just have their departmental admin add you to the roster.  You might have to try this is multiple sections, so don't be shy about getting up and asking the instructor of the 8 am class if you can have a seat.  IN PERSON and FIRST DAY are key.  DON'T pester the professor via email or in person before classes start, don't wait until the second or third day of class.  It won't always work, but you'd be surprised how often it does work on that first day. 

Every single colleague of mine lets EVERYONE who actually shows up the FIRST day into the class. Every term I let in a few people who do this and I watched one colleague let about 20 people in.  He said right at the beginning of class "raise your hand if you don't officially have a seat in this class."  A whole bunch of hands went up and he said "well you all seem to fit in this room, so please come down after and write your name on a list today.  You're all in."

Yes, this was all at a big state school. I agree that it shouldn't be this way, but I'm also surprised at how many students just see that the class they need is full right at the moment they try to register and never try again to get a seat that term. I've had advisees email me in a panic about it.  I look online and sometimes, in fact often, there is a seat open right at that moment I'm looking a day or a week after registration ended. So I just reply "Please try again, I see an open seat in that class now and if you are quick maybe you can snag it.  If not, please keep looking daily on your own as people will drop over time." If it takes you 6 years to get a 4 year degree, then you really aren't trying hard enough to get it done.

/rant
Yep, my daughter is a student at a mid-sized state school, and BECAUSE she's done these very things, she's ALWAYS been able to get into her necessary classes.  She is on track to graduate next year, which will be the four year mark.  I'd add a couple more thoughts:

- Know when your personal registration date /time opens ... and be prepared to register right that minute.  That means thinking ahead about what courses you need, having your backups ready.  Twice my daughter's been unable to register the minute her time opened up (once because she was still in high school and was taking an AP test, once because she was in lab), so she planned ahead, gave me DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS about what classes she wanted, and had me do it for her online.  No problems.  She gave me her log in and password, and no one even knew she wasn't the one who actually typed in the class codes. 

- As you're stalking that seat, pay attention to the day tuition is due, and check constantly the day after.  It's terribly sad that someone will have his registration "dropped" because he either couldn't pay or forgot to pay ... but SOMEONE'S going to grab his seat in that class you need, and it might as well be you.  Really, seats come open like crazy the day after tuition's due. 

- Similarly, stalk hard on long weekends.  Students aren't likely to make the decision NOT to return to school while they're sitting in their dorm room on a Tuesday night.  They're likely to go home and talk to their parents about how they're not happy, or they want to change schools, or whatever.  Likewise, parents aren't likely to call up and say on a random Tuesday night, "Hey, I have no money."  They're going to talk about that when the kids come home for a break -- and when the student drops, it'll be over that weekend OR the next Monday or Tuesday. 

     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income.  I didn't know either of those things because I grew up in poverty and my parents were more interested in having me "age out" of being their responsibility than to teach me life skills.  (They also didn't have very many life skills of their own to share with me.)  It's easy to call people stupid when you don't understand the challenges they face.  I got lucky that I was able to get a job working at a credit union where I could learn about bank accounts, loans, etc. and figure out how to monetize my degree.  (I nearly didn't get the job too, because my credit was terrible at the time.)
     You can't reasonably expect someone to go out of their way to learn life skills that they don't know exist and don't know they should be pursuing, especially when the entire country drills into their heads that they are losers unless they get a college degree of some kind in a field that is personally interesting to them  (and the money will follow.  Bullshit.)  Unfortunately, America wants most young people to learn through the "School of Hard Knocks" and they end up in difficult situations like those on that web page.
I grew up in that same household with the same lack of help -- both in terms of guidance and in terms of financial help -- and it's WHY I pushed myself to learn how to manage money better.  It's WHY I spent so much time in the library reading everything I could about investing, frugal living, retirement, and anything else related to money.  It's also why I spent all my time working and refused to borrow, even when it probably would've been better (and more healthy) for me; I was never sure that tomorrow would be better than today. 

So, yeah, it's tough to be born into that family, but it's also not synonymous with remaining a victim all your life.   
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 06:13:16 PM by MrsPete »

Hank Sinatra

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #114 on: April 25, 2015, 06:30:49 PM »
Quote
I grew up in that same household with the same lack of help -- both in terms of guidance and in terms of financial help -- and it's WHY I pushed myself to learn how to manage money better.  It's WHY I spent so much time in the library reading everything I could about investing, frugal living, retirement, and anything else related to money.  It's also why I spent all my time working and refused to borrow, even when it probably would've been better (and more healthy) for me; I was never sure that tomorrow would be better than today. 

I was born there too. And yep. their bad example motivated me. My siblings had different outcomes. And I am not delusional enough to think I turned out better for it. Everything would have been better if  I had not been raised by ignorance, anger, and alcoholism. Either these things matter or they don't.  And nobody who wants to be taken seriously as a knowledgeable adult would say they don't matter. Yep. Sure. Me, you, and many others were able to surmount the shit pile but what does that mean? We can't all be tied for first place in the smarts department.  Everybody who is not as good as I am is an asshole , so ufck 'em, is not good or realistic policy

Quote
So, yeah, it's tough to be born into that family, but it's also not synonymous with remaining a victim all your life.   

So, what's that supposed to mean? Of course it is true but unless it is guaranteed to apply to everybody all the time in all situations it is just another acknowledgement of the roll of the dice.  Everybody everywhere is totally the same. Parents, upbringing, environment, even  genes don't and cannot matter. We all know that's crap.  Why have parents?  They don't matter.  Schools? That's why the rick all go to public school. Because everything is the same. Everybody who is not privileged  has everything the same as the privileged. AH! Don't let The Privlidged hear you puke that  up.

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2015, 07:44:25 PM »
I never feel sorry for college kids. I've taught in college as an adjunct and mentored students too. The formula is not difficult.

1. Choose public in-state college. Do not go private or out-of-state unless scholarships (meaning stuff you don't have to pay back) level the playing field. You say you have a "dream" college? Here's your dream: be debt-free.

2. Live MMM in college. You're poor. Eat in the dining hall. Drink water. Do not enter a Starbucks ever. If you drink alcohol, consume only the ample free booze available in college. Need entertainment? Go to the "free" gym that's included in your pricey tuition. Join an Intramural sports team. Find the cheapest housing possible. Have roommates. You don't need to watch TV in college - ever.

3. Do not drive unless you live (free) at home and commute to school (not a bad idea).

4. Get a job. It doesn't have to be full-time, but bank that money or put it directly toward non-negotiable college expenses. Going out to eat, partying, and fraternity/sorority dues are not college necessities.

5. Your degree -- regardless of field -- will be largely worthless unless you use the time in college to build a career. Do the unpaid internships now while you can live at home during the summers/breaks. Build a network and experience now. If all you graduate with is a diploma, you've wasted four years.

6. Build your career with campus experiences. If you're, say, a would-be journalist (God help you), you can work for the campus TV, radio, newspaper or magazine outlets. (I'm a media guy and am always stunned when I meet juniors and seniors who aspire to work in this field and have done nothing.)

7. Don't join a fraternity or sorority. Period. If you do, don't complain that you can't find a job and are in debt upon graduating. This is how you chose to spend your time. (And if you still insist, don't put it on your freakin' resume. Do you think an employer wants to hire someone who placed partying as a top priority in college?)

8. Develop the mindset that you're already working in your career while in college. In fact, obsess about it. This is your No.1 priority. Build with internships and freelance work that hopefully will segue naturally into gainful employment upon graduation. Or maybe you'll have built a business to launch yourself.


Excellent advice!!!

Boxcat

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2015, 08:51:21 PM »
"Who was the fool, who the wise man, beggar or king? Whether poor or rich, allís the same in death."

MrsPete

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #117 on: April 27, 2015, 05:52:57 AM »
And I am not delusional enough to think I turned out better for it. Everything would have been better if  I had not been raised by ignorance, anger, and alcoholism.
Quote
Oh, absolutely.  It was hard to grow up in that situation, and although I learned some lessons and have come out of it pretty well, I am not a better person for having gone through it -- I still carry some bitterness.  And not all of my siblings have done as well as I have. 

My own daughters are much better off because they've been raised in a middle class home and have had plenty of guidance and love through their young years. 

So, what's that supposed to mean?
It means that where you're going is more important than where you come from.  It means that you may've had problems in your childhood, but you can't sit back and say, "Well, I just couldn't do any better."  It means that after a certain point, you become responsible for your own actions and choices. 

Apples

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2015, 08:52:48 AM »
+1 to what Zamboni said above.  I did it for a non-required class with a wait list of 20 students (room held 338, and 338 were enrolled).  The prof couldn't do anything for me because the enrollment was at the limit of the # of seats in the room.  But I STALKED that class for the first week.  At the large state school you have 7 days to drop/add classes.  Which is usually 2 class meetings.  Every 2-3 hours I would check.  I got a seat after the second class, and after Labor Day weekend there were 3-4 open seats for anyone looking on Sunday night.  Now this isn't a required class for anyone, but sits on a "list of options for your 2 additional required classes".  But I'm not even in that program, it was just a fun class for me because I wanted to take it.

I do often wonder just how hard some people work to get into "full" classes.  Sometimes an adviser can get you in if the room has enough seats; my adviser would usually add 2-3 extra people and somewhere around 5 or 6 would have qualms with adding more.  Sometimes the prof will put you in the class if you go the first day.  Sometimes the room/lab is at it's physical fullness, and things suck.  Sometimes you have to trade lab times with another student in the lecture hall because the only open lab conflicts with one of your classes.  I've had profs basically create an exchange the second day of class where people stated which lab they couldn't be in, and asked to trade.  I'd say 70% of the time they got into a  lab of some sort.  Note that these are labs for the Horticulture degree, so there's usually 2-3 to choose from, not the dozens and dozens at horrible times like Chem and Bio labs.

And the class I worked so hard to get into?  Introduction to Personal Finance. :)

GuitarStv

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2015, 09:10:11 AM »
"Who was the fool, who the wise man, beggar or king? Whether poor or rich, allís the same in death."

We all meet it in the end, but my experience is that death tends to come a bit earlier for the beggar than the king.

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2015, 07:12:31 PM »
Since when did:  "I am educated therefore automatically entitled to lots of money," become a thing?  It's an arrogant stance of superiority.  Since when does a degree guarantee you a six-figure salary?   

I concur.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #121 on: May 04, 2015, 05:19:53 PM »
Since when did:  "I am educated therefore automatically entitled to lots of money," become a thing?  It's an arrogant stance of superiority.  Since when does a degree guarantee you a six-figure salary?   

I concur.

To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky. I did it right, with a BS in Computer Science, they got lucky. I am a little jealous that they didn't really work all that hard, and I busted my ass.

But such is life.
ET ERE: 5yrs

Roland of Gilead

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2015, 08:20:27 PM »

To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky. I did it right, with a BS in Computer Science, they got lucky. I am a little jealous that they didn't really work all that hard, and I busted my ass.

But such is life.

Working hard as a software dev you can make 6 figures (with some long hours and weekends during release cycles) but then you watch the guys selling the software you wrote make 7 figures.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2015, 08:29:16 PM »

To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky. I did it right, with a BS in Computer Science, they got lucky. I am a little jealous that they didn't really work all that hard, and I busted my ass.

But such is life.

Working hard as a software dev you can make 6 figures (with some long hours and weekends during release cycles) but then you watch the guys selling the software you wrote make 7 figures.

Hah. True.
I will elaborate. A friend of mine took easy classes (sociology major), and walked on to an understaffed police department. He put in 2 years there, moved back home, and lucked out doing software installations/rollout. Was making 100k+, decided to quit.  Took a year off with no work. Got called back to consult for $140/hr. I applied to the same company and they didn't want to talk to me because I had a 3.4GPA in computer science instead of a 4.0 in sociology.

Another friend got a nursing degree and fell into a $150k/yr job.

There's always someone out there who does better than you, but I thought I was making the right choices. Maybe I need more luck ?
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MoneyCat

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #124 on: May 05, 2015, 06:36:41 PM »

To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky. I did it right, with a BS in Computer Science, they got lucky. I am a little jealous that they didn't really work all that hard, and I busted my ass.

But such is life.

Working hard as a software dev you can make 6 figures (with some long hours and weekends during release cycles) but then you watch the guys selling the software you wrote make 7 figures.

Hah. True.
I will elaborate. A friend of mine took easy classes (sociology major), and walked on to an understaffed police department. He put in 2 years there, moved back home, and lucked out doing software installations/rollout. Was making 100k+, decided to quit.  Took a year off with no work. Got called back to consult for $140/hr. I applied to the same company and they didn't want to talk to me because I had a 3.4GPA in computer science instead of a 4.0 in sociology.

Another friend got a nursing degree and fell into a $150k/yr job.

There's always someone out there who does better than you, but I thought I was making the right choices. Maybe I need more luck ?

The two biggest determining factors for "life success" are your family and your connections (which is related to your family).  I have gotten every job I ever had by having connections.  My grades in college were really high.  I was very involved in community service and clubs.  The only thing that mattered was who I knew.  That's how it is for everyone and anybody who says otherwise is either lying or clueless.

Hey It's Moe

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #125 on: May 05, 2015, 08:34:49 PM »
I never feel sorry for college kids. I've taught in college as an adjunct and mentored students too. The formula is not difficult.

1. Choose public in-state college. Do not go private or out-of-state unless scholarships (meaning stuff you don't have to pay back) level the playing field. You say you have a "dream" college? Here's your dream: be debt-free.


Or unless you actually want to get a degree in four years. My cousin enrolled at a state school (UC Santa Barbara). With funding cuts, the classes are so overcrowded that it's almost impossible to get into required courses. Because of this it would have taken her over six years to get her "four year" degree. So she transferred to a private school where she could actually take her classes.

This is actually a bigger deal than most people realize. I am fortunate enough to be in the honor's program in my school, so I get first pick on classes, but it's not unheard of for seniors not to be able to graduate on time because they got locked out of courses they need. I had a friend who needed to take one last marketing class to get his degree and the professor took a sabbatical. She was the only one teaching the class, and he had to take it the next semester. (He fought this for weeks until they let him walk with his graduating class and take the class late in the fall).

Hey It's Moe

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #126 on: May 05, 2015, 08:39:23 PM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income. 

What about all the "young" people who are still signing up every day for massive school debt for degrees that are worthless when by now it is pretty much common knowledge with all the media coverage of how many college programs are a just a scam? How much longer will people use the excuse of ignorance that they didn't know any better? Also if you read the page MANY people who whine about not wanting to pay back loans they agreed to the terms of are well into their 30's-40's or even older.

The problem is, what's the alternative. Asking a 17-18 year old to figure out what the heck to do with their lives is insane, and high schools do not do a good job of getting students to think about what they want to do. College then acts as a buffer that allows them to explore options for another few years. I know I didn't know what I wanted to do when I graduated high school. I took a year of science classes as a pre-med student because "fuck it", and then took one business course in the summer and fell in love. I had my first internshi before the summer was over, and my second one in the winter. My grades, which had been B's until that summer, launched to A's and A-minus' because I was doing something I understood and resonated with me. I never would have considered business if it wasn't for that one class in the summer.

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #127 on: May 08, 2015, 10:11:28 AM »
Here are a few new ones just recently posted. These people are fucking idiots and I do not feel sorry for them at all!


1)   I just turned 47, and feel like I have made a huge mistake with my education. I have a Master's degree in Library and Information Science, and although many people said that this degree was not very useful, my love of research and academic spurred me on. When I rec'd my first Bachelor's degree, I was able to study abroad on a student loan, which was a life changing positive experience for me. I don't regret it at all, even though it left me with $21,000 in debt. When I returned to the states, I graduated and my Bachelor's degree was enough to land me an administrative job. Paid okay, but I wasn't happy. The bills kept coming and I continued working admin jobs, to pay what I could to student loan. Then I decided I'd had enough of admin work, and went back to a Master's program. I had a career counselor at the time, and in the end, I wish I hadn't used her services... she encouraged me to continue with the MLIS program, but my heart became increasingly not into the major. I was now in debt for about $50k and only halfway through the program. I decided to just plug on, and finish, and now I'm $90k in debt, for a fairly defunct line of study and work. I think I was in a panic for a long time, wanting out of admin work. And now, with huge student loan payments coming due, guess where I am? Back in admin work, and this time for much much longer. Feels like a prison sentence of sorts. I'm trying to keep positive, and I will pay what I can, but I fear for all of us lower middle income educated people who have nowhere to turn. In some ways, I wish I had learned a technical trade, and just satisfied my academic thirst on my own, without a college sticker price. When will the government realize that in order to compete on a world economic with an educated citizenry, quality education mandates student loan reform. Otherwise, the result will be increased civil unrest and governmental liability.
Melissa  May 4, 2015  Bay Area, CA


2)     I have recently graduated with my Master of Social Work degree with $100,000 in student loan debt. Between my partner and I, we have nearly $200,000 in student loan debt with a daughter under the age of one. I work part time because the price of child care is completely unacceptable (that's a whole other story). My partner is a corrections officer with the State, so he makes decent money, but not enough to be able to cover a whopping $1000 a month payment to Sallie Mae (that's just his payment, not mine). I make $13.00, but only work 27 hours a week so I do not qualify for the 10 year loan repayment schedule. My IBR is $0, which sounds great, but the reality is I will end up owing nearly $500,000 in 20 years that will have to be claimed on my income taxes. Sallie Mae is determined to get their money, but I know the IRS is much scarier. It has become crippling. We cannot buy a house, we have put off the thought of having another child simply because we cannot afford one. We have even considered moving in with my parents to be able to catch up on something. My partner works at least three overtime shifts in a pay period to be able to help pay his student loan. I find it absolutely disgusting that we have loans at 6.8%, yet banks and auto companies are getting bailed out with taxpayers dollars with a .75% interest rate. This has completely ruined my future, my partners future, and it has potentially ruined my daughters future.
Kate  May 4, 2015  Michigan


3)   I recently graduated from Boston University. I'm from a middle class family, and apparently my parents "made too much money on paper" for me to receive financial aid. They never intended to assist in paying my tuition, but I was still required to put their incomes on my FAFSA form. I received VERY little aid to attend BU, a school that costs over $50,000 per year to attend. With about $200,000 in student loan debt, and a degree in the arts, there is no end in sight to paying down my loans. Now I am stuck at home, totally dependent on my parents, working full time at a very poorly paying job, and giving every single paycheck directly to Sallie Mae. I know there are many others like me out there, and something needs to be done in this country about this insane system of robbing students blind.
Kyle  April 30, 2015  Philadelphia, PA


4)    I teach GED and other subjects at a small rural Native American College. I needed to be there to teach my people so I went on to get my education. I am a single mom and I don't get paid much as a teacher. I am needed here and I do not want to quit or move. I also take care of my disabled sister. I am coming due on loans that want $5-$600 a month to pay back but I will never have that kind on money. The whole reason I needed my education was to teach here and make a difference. I have no idea what I will do because I cannot make enough to make those kinds of payment. I drive a car that is from the 90's and I do not wear fancy clothes so I don't have any where to make budget cuts. Student debt put people like me in a bad position. We are trying to help others but we end up hurting ourselves!
Bambi  April 28, 2015  Pawnee, OK

Argyle

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #128 on: May 08, 2015, 10:24:12 AM »
Well, I do feel very sorry for them.  None of them were out to rip anybody off.  It's like saying, "You got done in by a bad deal, yah boo sucks!"  They are in terrible positions.  There but for the grace of God...

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #129 on: May 08, 2015, 10:30:02 AM »
These people are looking for their debts to be forgiven after they agreed to the terms of the loans and had no problem taking the $$$$$ when it was offered.  Do you really believe their loans should be forgiven because they are just stupid?   

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #130 on: May 08, 2015, 10:54:02 AM »
I never feel sorry for college kids. I've taught in college as an adjunct and mentored students too. The formula is not difficult.

1. Choose public in-state college. Do not go private or out-of-state unless scholarships (meaning stuff you don't have to pay back) level the playing field. You say you have a "dream" college? Here's your dream: be debt-free.Out of state is ok if reciprocity, private often comes with many grants. Weigh the entire package. I went in-state public, but for some, you may find an out of state private offers enough grants that it is the same price as in-state public. It's worth looking into. Certainly don't do it if the cost is 3x.

2. Live MMM in college. You're poor. Eat in the dining hall. Drink water. Do not enter a Starbucks ever. If you drink alcohol, consume only the ample free booze available in college. Need entertainment? Go to the "free" gym that's included in your pricey tuition. Join an Intramural sports team. Find the cheapest housing possible. Have roommates. You don't need to watch TV in college - ever.Agree. Student loans should not be treated like a line of credit for throwing parties.

3. Do not drive unless you live (free) at home and commute to school (not a bad idea).

4. Get a job. It doesn't have to be full-time, but bank that money or put it directly toward non-negotiable college expenses. Going out to eat, partying, and fraternity/sorority dues are not college necessities.

5. Your degree -- regardless of field -- will be largely worthless unless you use the time in college to build a career. Do the unpaid internships now while you can live at home during the summers/breaks. Build a network and experience now. If all you graduate with is a diploma, you've wasted four years.Network as much as possible. Those people may help you find a job someday.

6. Build your career with campus experiences. If you're, say, a would-be journalist (God help you), you can work for the campus TV, radio, newspaper or magazine outlets. (I'm a media guy and am always stunned when I meet juniors and seniors who aspire to work in this field and have done nothing.)

7. Don't join a fraternity or sorority. Period. If you do, don't complain that you can't find a job and are in debt upon graduating. This is how you chose to spend your time. (And if you still insist, don't put it on your freakin' resume. Do you think an employer wants to hire someone who placed partying as a top priority in college?)Some colleges have low/no cost academic social groups. Check these out and use it to build your friend base for future networking contacts.

8. Develop the mindset that you're already working in your career while in college. In fact, obsess about it. This is your No.1 priority. Build with internships and freelance work that hopefully will segue naturally into gainful employment upon graduation. Or maybe you'll have built a business to launch yourself.

I would also add that it may be wise to check into the transfer policy of your university, and take a lot of general education (sociology, psychology, civics, econ, lab science) at a local tech school.  I did this and the cost was $80/credit as opposed to the in state 4 year university that was $300/credit or more. Same class at private 4 year in same city?  $800+ per credit.
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infogoon

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #131 on: May 08, 2015, 11:48:49 AM »
Quote
Otherwise, the result will be increased civil unrest and governmental liability.

Look out, everyone, the unemployed librarians are coming with torches and pitchforks. And tasteful sweater vests.

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #132 on: May 08, 2015, 02:47:46 PM »
4)    I teach GED and other subjects at a small rural Native American College. I needed to be there to teach my people so I went on to get my education. I am a single mom and I don't get paid much as a teacher. I am needed here and I do not want to quit or move. I also take care of my disabled sister. I am coming due on loans that want $5-$600 a month to pay back but I will never have that kind on money. The whole reason I needed my education was to teach here and make a difference. I have no idea what I will do because I cannot make enough to make those kinds of payment. I drive a car that is from the 90's and I do not wear fancy clothes so I don't have any where to make budget cuts. Student debt put people like me in a bad position. We are trying to help others but we end up hurting ourselves!
Bambi  April 28, 2015  Pawnee, OK

This one should qualify for teacher loan forgiveness if she took out her loans after 1998.  All Native American reservation schools count as "low income" schools, so if she makes ten years of minimum payments on the loans she will get the rest forgiven by the government.  I hope this teacher does some research on this.

bzzzt

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #133 on: May 08, 2015, 08:47:29 PM »
... I drive a car that is from the 90's and I do not wear fancy clothes so I don't have any where to make budget cuts...
Bambi  April 28, 2015  Pawnee, OK

OH! The HORROR! Not a car from the 90s!...

Kaspian

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2015, 10:28:25 AM »
     A lot of very privileged people have commented so far on this thread.  I ended up with a lot of student loan debt from college and grad school ($74,000 at one point) and the reason I ended up with it was because I didn't understand money or what college degrees led to real income.  I didn't know either of those things because I grew up in poverty and my parents were more interested in having me "age out" of being their responsibility than to teach me life skills.  (They also didn't have very many life skills of their own to share with me.)  It's easy to call people stupid when you don't understand the challenges they face.  I got lucky that I was able to get a job working at a credit union where I could learn about bank accounts, loans, etc. and figure out how to monetize my degree.  (I nearly didn't get the job too, because my credit was terrible at the time.)
     You can't reasonably expect someone to go out of their way to learn life skills that they don't know exist and don't know they should be pursuing, especially when the entire country drills into their heads that they are losers unless they get a college degree of some kind in a field that is personally interesting to them  (and the money will follow.  Bullshit.)  Unfortunately, America wants most young people to learn through the "School of Hard Knocks" and they end up in difficult situations like those on that web page.

As an 18 year-old punk rocker, I could in no shape of form be called anywhere near the ballpark of "smart".  But even with simple Grade 12 math (I scraped by that with an roaring 52% mark), my reaction to normal tuition?  "$50 THOUSAND DOLLARS?!!  ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MINDS?!!  THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL I'M BORROWING THAT MUCH FOR ANY JOB IN THIS WORLD.  I'll live on the streets.  I'll wash dishes.  I'll shine shoes or fix guitars before they get their pound of flesh outta me.  Come to think of it, that's more than a pound for Goddsakes.  You can take your fancy school and shove it where the sun don't shine."  After some begging and pleas from my mom, I agreed on a 2-year computer course at local community college for way less dough.  ...And now I have just as good a job (or better) than those who did the 5-year philosophy doctorates.   You're calling 18 year-olds clueless.  They're not.  But sadly, lots of them see a giant avalanche of loan money coming their way and they embrace it with smiling eyes full of greedy happiness.  Damn the future consequences.  Then the day comes when they have to pay it back and they whine like beaten dogs.  This has been happening since lending was invented.
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SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2015, 08:32:25 PM »
FWIW, I feel that a well chosen degree (even at a significant cost) is worth it. You have to be smart about it, but I do know some people with 100k in loans from doing a BS at the best finance school in CA ,and they are making 250k/yr. That will only go up, and provided they aren't living fat, the loans will soon dissappear, and they will be able to FIRE very quickly.
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BlueHouse

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #136 on: May 14, 2015, 04:52:44 AM »
I was and still am so grateful to the U.S. For guaranteeing student loans. It was the only thing that made it possible for me to get an education that I otherwise couldn't have afforded. These days, the attitude is so different. Reminds me of people in other countries who will do just about anything to get an education, versus in the U.S., so many kids want to drop out, cut classes, not take it seriously.
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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2015, 10:27:50 AM »
I was and still am so grateful to the U.S. For guaranteeing student loans. It was the only thing that made it possible for me to get an education that I otherwise couldn't have afforded.

Well, you could have joined the military and gotten a scholarship, or moved to Germany and got a college education for free...

Helvegen

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #138 on: May 14, 2015, 04:10:34 PM »
I didn't make a great financial decision with my degree. It was great in a lot of other ways, but financially? Anyway, I am still paying for it now. I have more than enough money in the bank to just pay it off now and be done with it, but the interest rate is so low (pure luck), I'm in no rush.

What puzzles me is the number of people who are in my position. You have a poorly marketable degree and are in debt from it. The solution to some of these people is to continue to take on more debt pursuing some other, most likely questionably marketable, degree. I just don't understand how you get out of a hole by digging it even deeper. But I worked in higher education for several years and saw this over and over again. People with 2 to 10 times my debt chomping at the bit to sign up for even more debt. One of the biggest and most ironic reasons is that they needed to be in school because otherwise their student debt would come due and they didn't have the money to pay for their first degrees. They would just desperately ask for two classes, any two classes, anything so that they wouldn't have to pay back their debt. Of course, they would be paying for these courses with...yep, more student loans. They would do this until they hit the student loan max and then the shit hits the fan for them I guess. People would come in, say they couldn't get a job or the job they thought with X degree(s), so they think Y degree is a 'sure bet', let's load up the loans for it without a second thought without even trying to pay the first mistake off first!

Quite frankly, I myself would love to go back to school. I'd love to study all kinds of things. I think I would be a professional student if I could. But I still owe for my first degree, and even if I didn't, another degree is prohibitively expensive. I have just had to learn how to make what I have work for me. I can't gamble tens of thousands of dollars on a 'maybe'. Learned my lesson about that the first time around.

zephyr911

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #139 on: May 15, 2015, 09:21:18 AM »
Quote

1)   I just turned 47, and feel like I have made a huge mistake with my education.
(snip)
I don't regret it at all
(snip)
I think I was in a panic for a long time, wanting out of admin work. And now, with huge student loan payments coming due, guess where I am? Back in admin work, and this time for much much longer. Feels like a prison sentence of sorts.
Which is it? You made a mistake or you didn't? Are we lamenting that you didn't think shit through, or is it the fault of the system? :P
Quote
2)   I find it absolutely disgusting that we have fucked ourselves over by requesting and deliberately accepting (fixed that) loans at 6.8%, yet banks and auto companies are getting bailed out with taxpayers dollars with a .75% interest rate. This has WE HAVE (fixed that too) completely ruined my future, my partners future, and it has potentially ruined my daughters future.
Kate  May 4, 2015  Michigan
Corrections added. Where the hell is the sense of personal responsibility for choices here?
Quote
3)   I recently graduated from Boston University. I'm from a middle class family, and apparently my parents "made too much money on paper" for me to receive financial aid. They never intended to assist in paying my tuition,
Oh for fuck's sake, if they weren't going to help, you knew that ahead of time.
Quote
...but I was still required to put their incomes on my FAFSA form. I received VERY little aid to attend BU, a school that costs over $50,000 per year to attend. With about $200,000 in student loan debt, and a degree in the arts, there is no end in sight to paying down my loans. Now I am stuck at home, totally dependent on my parents, working full time at a very poorly paying job, and giving every single paycheck directly to Sallie Mae. I know there are many others like me out there, and something needs to be done in this country about this insane system of robbing students blind.
Yes, another poor student who had a gun held to their head and went totally unwilling to an unmarketable degree at an overpriced institution in a HCOL area. Will someone please track down the gangs that are doing this?
Quote
4)    I teach GED and other subjects at a small rural Native American College.
(snip)
I drive a car that is from the 90's
(snip)
and I do not wear fancy clothes so I don't have any where to make budget cuts
(snip)
Bambi
If you can't use an apostrophe correctly, and you don't know that "anywhere" is one word, your degree was a waste and you shouldn't be teaching anyone... and FFS, who names their kid Bambi? Maybe we can blame the parents for this one's failures....
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Cathy

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2015, 07:29:58 PM »
Quote
I drive a car that is from the 90's
If you can't use an apostrophe correctly, [...] your degree was a waste and you shouldn't be teaching anyone...

(Internal quotation truncated by me.)

I dislike the use of apostrophes to pluralise numbers, but some decent writers use it. It's not evidence of lack of education. It's just a different typographical preference. The same writers who advocate this convention also tend to use apostrophes to pluralise initialisms (including single letters used as words).

If I felt like challenging these writers, I would suggest that limiting the apostrophe to marking the genitive case promotes consistency, and that it shouldn't be used inconsistently and arbitrarily for other purposes such as pluralisation. I would not challenge them by asserting that their "degree was a waste".
This post contains only general information on the issues raised by this topic. This post does not provide help tailored to your specific situation. There are many facts that could be relevant to your specific situation and I am not in possession of those facts. If you need help tailored to your specific situation, you should retain an appropriate professional and not rely on this post.

Squirrel away

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2015, 05:29:45 AM »
Keep in mind that most people with student loan debt were clueless teenagers when they committed to the loans. For many, it is the first adult financial decision they ever had to make in their lives.


This. Additionally parents and high schools push hard to go to college. They paint a very rosy picture of college life in general, and tell you that college degrees automatically mean a very comfortable wage and that jobs grow on trees if you only go to college...

It's like that in the UK too but now I think more and more graduates are realising that they have been lied to and that their degree isn't worth much. Student debts are far lower over here at least.

MrsPete

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #142 on: May 20, 2015, 09:59:26 AM »
To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky.
I don't know anyone who's making that much money through luck.  I think success sometimes looks like luck from the outside. 
The two biggest determining factors for "life success" are your family and your connections (which is related to your family).  I have gotten every job I ever had by having connections.  My grades in college were really high.  I was very involved in community service and clubs.  The only thing that mattered was who I knew.  That's how it is for everyone and anybody who says otherwise is either lying or clueless.
I agree that family is important in your eventual success.  Your family instills values in you from a young age and they either encourage or discourage you to value education and search out opportunities.  But I don't agree that having a supportive family is a ticket to success, while lack of such a family is an automatic failure.  I know too many people who don't fit this mold. 

And connections are valuable, but my husband went straight into his current job from college.  He had references from professors, but nothing else.  Several teachers in my department were hired from job fairs; again, they had references, but not connections to our state.  Yes, connections can be valuable and they make life easier, but a person can get his foot in the door without them. 

And, no, I'm neither lying nor clueless. 

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #143 on: May 20, 2015, 11:02:15 AM »
To that point, I know a lot of people making 6 figures who have been just lucky.
I don't know anyone who's making that much money through luck.  I think success sometimes looks like luck from the outside. 
The two biggest determining factors for "life success" are your family and your connections (which is related to your family).  I have gotten every job I ever had by having connections.  My grades in college were really high.  I was very involved in community service and clubs.  The only thing that mattered was who I knew.  That's how it is for everyone and anybody who says otherwise is either lying or clueless.
I agree that family is important in your eventual success.  Your family instills values in you from a young age and they either encourage or discourage you to value education and search out opportunities.  But I don't agree that having a supportive family is a ticket to success, while lack of such a family is an automatic failure.  I know too many people who don't fit this mold. 

And connections are valuable, but my husband went straight into his current job from college.  He had references from professors, but nothing else.  Several teachers in my department were hired from job fairs; again, they had references, but not connections to our state.  Yes, connections can be valuable and they make life easier, but a person can get his foot in the door without them. 

And, no, I'm neither lying nor clueless.

You really need to read the WHOLE thing and not skip, filter, or fill-in things.

The said The two biggest determining factors... There is one  more. And it is really related to the tow that he mentioned. It's The Luck You Have. Sure, no connection, bullshit family? Well, you can go far and do well with just some references. I would call those connections myself but if you want to consider them a separate animal I will allow it for the discussion. As long as we  agree on  the terms.

Simply knowing this guy or that guy who got in with something and didn't have a hard "connection" and didn't come from a family with money or "pull" doesn't mean they are not the two biggest determiners. What SpicyMcHaggus meant at the basis is success depends far more on things beyond your knowledge and control than on anything you can  actuate personally.



zephyr911

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #144 on: May 21, 2015, 12:52:10 PM »
Quote
I drive a car that is from the 90's
If you can't use an apostrophe correctly, [...] your degree was a waste and you shouldn't be teaching anyone...

(Internal quotation truncated by me.)

I dislike the use of apostrophes to pluralise numbers, but some decent writers use it. It's not evidence of lack of education. It's just a different typographical preference. The same writers who advocate this convention also tend to use apostrophes to pluralise initialisms (including single letters used as words).
I don't completely reject the use of an apostrophe to demarcate a number or acronym, but the space vacated by "19" absolutely requires one.

My comment was a little over-the-top, to be sure, but this is a legitimate failure (albeit a small one).
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Cathy

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #145 on: May 23, 2015, 01:20:50 PM »
I don't completely reject the use of an apostrophe to demarcate a number or acronym, but the space vacated by "19" absolutely requires one.

I don't agree with that. In fact, it wouldn't even occur to me to write an apostrophe before "90s". It doesn't need to be viewed as an abbreviation of "1990s"; it's an independent construction.
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Hey It's Moe

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2015, 01:39:53 PM »
These people are looking for their debts to be forgiven after they agreed to the terms of the loans and had no problem taking the $$$$$ when it was offered.  Do you really believe their loans should be forgiven because they are just stupid?

It's equally stupid to place all of the blame on the debtor and none on the person writing the checks. Banks themselves are more than willing to write off massive checks for student education, because people are largely stuck with those payments for life. This safety just provides incentive for banks to give out loans like candy. If these loans were not unforgivable, perhaps banks would be more stringent than to offer an 18 year old who "wants to discover herself" through the arts a check for $200,000 to a liberal arts school.

Hey It's Moe

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2015, 01:41:24 PM »
This thread is disgusting and just reeks of privilege. Why isn't there an unsubscribe button?

Sofa King

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #148 on: May 23, 2015, 02:23:45 PM »
This thread is disgusting and just reeks of privilege. Why isn't there an unsubscribe button?


.....and yet you keep coming back to this thread to post numerous times over the last month!!! LOL!!!!!l

Joggernot

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Re: HARD TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE....
« Reply #149 on: May 23, 2015, 04:08:27 PM »
This thread is disgusting and just reeks of privilege. Why isn't there an unsubscribe button?
Click on the "Unnotify" button at the top or the bottom of unsubscribe.