Fancy dinner with the in-laws, or an exploding fountain of waste.

[mak1277]

Ugh, my in-laws are like that.  We took them to one of our favorite (pricey) restaurants, and made it clear we were treating them.  They couldn't even enjoy it because of how much it cost.  Sat there looking uncomfortable and trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu.  And yet they go to places like Bob Evans or Applebees all the time.  I thought they'd appreciate a treat since they never go out to a nice restaurant.  We won't make that mistake again with people who can't appreciate it.

Something being a treat does not automatically make it easier to waste money.

I know.  It's one our favorite, rare treat kind of restaurants.  The chef had recently won a James Beard award and we have always been blown away by the food and the experience, and knowing that they would probably not try it on their own, we were excited to share it with them.  It sucked to feel like we had wasted our money trying to share it with them.  I always struggle to find awesome gifts for them for birthdays or holidays, and I thought I spending an evening with them at a restaurant we love was a great solution.  Lesson learned.  :(

Is it the money issue, or is it their preference in food?  I know, for example, that my wife would never enjoy going to a michelin-starred restaurant because she doesn't enjoy typical "fine dining" food choices.  She prefers more basic comfort-food fare.  It's not the money to her, it's the menu options.

You have to know your audience.

[winkeyman]

OP's story made me cringe, particularly the part about counting money on the table and trying to figure things out. I feel your pain.

I experience extreme discomfort whenever I am in a situation where people start bickering and dickering over the check, who pays for what, how to split up shared appetizers, etc. I don't know where it comes from, it might have something to do with the years I spent in the restaurant industry.

If it all goes smoothly, I will just suffer through it. But at the first bump in the road, I will just tell the server to put all the appetizers on my check. If we hit a second or third bump, I will just giver the server my card and pay for the whole table.

Luckily, I only find myself in "lets cut the check up into 37 pieces" situations once or twice a year these days.

[jinga nation]

I'm glad I have the in-laws I have. My father-in-law will not let any family member pay. The boss has spoken! (He's a self-made man, owns a hardware store in the old country, commercial and residential real estate, lives a frugal lifestyle, sent 4 kids to university in UK.)

I was taught by my father that 'He who invites, pays; reciprocate'.

My wife, I, my family, in-laws, aren't into fancy restaurants with the razzle dazzle. The food has to be good. We're not there to eat the furniture, art, décor, ambience, etc. The food better be good. I think we feel like a fish out of water in the fancy shmancy ritzy places. I can't recall having an awesome meal at the top dollar restaurants, but I know that my favorite Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Pizza, Italian, Cuban sandwiches, etc. come from mom-and-pop places in my city.

[Thisisme]

LOL, We all love our kids, and I would do anything for mine, but "quite the catch" isn't part of the picture.  Not that she is unattractive, but she can be a handful.

Am I the only one bothered by this statement?  Way to denigrate your daughter in multiple ways.

[paddedhat]

LOL, We all love our kids, and I would do anything for mine, but "quite the catch" isn't part of the picture.  Not that she is unattractive, but she can be a handful.

Am I the only one bothered by this statement?  Way to denigrate your daughter in multiple ways.

First, let's take a look at the post it references, and you tell me if I got the wrong impression from it?

I bet your daughter is quite the catch, and the pressure on the family to impress her parents is huge.  They need to reassure dad especially that they will treat her like royalty, because dad has enormous influence on daughter's choice of spouse.

Now my take on this (right or wrong) is, "I bet your daughter is one cute little princess, who needs to be treated like royalty. Since she is nothing but a cute little princess, she doesn't make her own decisions, but relies heavily on pressure from daddy"

Well, that just isn't how the padded hat family rolls. We place little value on anybody being a "catch, hottie, or whatever. We have had exactly zero influence, or input,  on who our children wish to select as their significant others. We have no interest in exerting any control over our adult children's lives, and we value fierce independence. Both my kids are successful, independent and tough as nails. They didn't get that way by being controlled by helicopter parents, or being raised to believe they are each special little, precious snowflakes.

So, my statement reflects the reality that this daughter is far from unattractive, and can be quite a looker with all the typical shit that comes with societal pressures to do so, heals, tight dress, face paint, etc...... Does she give a shit? no. Do we, no? As for being a handful, well that should be self-explanatory, she didn't get that way by accident.

Amazing to see the difference between being honest and including the whole picture, like I just did, and your cherry picking a bit of it, to accuse me of "denigrating my daughter".  I have a daughter who works in social media for a career, yet has built homes with me, and for non-profits, isn't afraid to try anything from fixing broken furniture to rotating her tires, and sure as hell is a lot more useful, skilled, and productive than many of the hipster guys she hangs with. If I failed as a dad, you're gonna' need a bit more that what you got. Good luck finding it.

[ender]

Ugh, my in-laws are like that.  We took them to one of our favorite (pricey) restaurants, and made it clear we were treating them.  They couldn't even enjoy it because of how much it cost.  Sat there looking uncomfortable and trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu.  And yet they go to places like Bob Evans or Applebees all the time.  I thought they'd appreciate a treat since they never go out to a nice restaurant.  We won't make that mistake again with people who can't appreciate it.

Something being a treat does not automatically make it easier to waste money.

I know.  It's one our favorite, rare treat kind of restaurants.  The chef had recently won a James Beard award and we have always been blown away by the food and the experience, and knowing that they would probably not try it on their own, we were excited to share it with them.  It sucked to feel like we had wasted our money trying to share it with them.  I always struggle to find awesome gifts for them for birthdays or holidays, and I thought I spending an evening with them at a restaurant we love was a great solution.  Lesson learned.  :(

You missed my point.

Just because someone else treat's me does not make it any easier for me to waste money. If I go to a $100/plate restaurant I will feel it's a waste of money regardless of who pays. Even if my company pays I will still feel like it is a waste of money.

Particularly if I feel someone is trying to impress me with lavish spending.

[Metric Mouse]

Ugh, my in-laws are like that.  We took them to one of our favorite (pricey) restaurants, and made it clear we were treating them.  They couldn't even enjoy it because of how much it cost.  Sat there looking uncomfortable and trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu.  And yet they go to places like Bob Evans or Applebees all the time.  I thought they'd appreciate a treat since they never go out to a nice restaurant.  We won't make that mistake again with people who can't appreciate it.

Something being a treat does not automatically make it easier to waste money.

I know.  It's one our favorite, rare treat kind of restaurants.  The chef had recently won a James Beard award and we have always been blown away by the food and the experience, and knowing that they would probably not try it on their own, we were excited to share it with them.  It sucked to feel like we had wasted our money trying to share it with them.  I always struggle to find awesome gifts for them for birthdays or holidays, and I thought I spending an evening with them at a restaurant we love was a great solution.  Lesson learned.  :(

You missed my point.

Just because someone else treat's me does not make it any easier for me to waste money. If I go to a $100/plate restaurant I will feel it's a waste of money regardless of who pays. Even if my company pays I will still feel like it is a waste of money.

Particularly if I feel someone is trying to impress me with lavish spending.

You could have hypertrophied frugality muscles. Other people's spending is causing you distress!

[I'm a red panda]

Ugh, my in-laws are like that.  We took them to one of our favorite (pricey) restaurants, and made it clear we were treating them.  They couldn't even enjoy it because of how much it cost.  Sat there looking uncomfortable and trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu.  And yet they go to places like Bob Evans or Applebees all the time.  I thought they'd appreciate a treat since they never go out to a nice restaurant.  We won't make that mistake again with people who can't appreciate it.

Something being a treat does not automatically make it easier to waste money.

I know.  It's one our favorite, rare treat kind of restaurants.  The chef had recently won a James Beard award and we have always been blown away by the food and the experience, and knowing that they would probably not try it on their own, we were excited to share it with them.  It sucked to feel like we had wasted our money trying to share it with them.  I always struggle to find awesome gifts for them for birthdays or holidays, and I thought I spending an evening with them at a restaurant we love was a great solution.  Lesson learned.  :(

I have a real hard time enjoying the places my parents take me too because of the extreme cost, even though I know they can afford it. I could afford it too, but that's not how I want money to be spent. It seems insane. And sometimes it tells me they don't really know me very well if they think this is something I want.

I think you did a really nice thing; because you put thought into it and tried, but it sounds like you did something you would think was an awesome gift, instead of something they think is an awesome gift. Probably just spending time with you is an awesome gift, so rather than a taking them to a restaurant YOU love, next time take them to one they love.  Even if that means an evening out at Applebees.

If I take my sister out for her birthday, we go to Del Friscos, because that is something she values. For my husband, we buy the steaks and make the same dinner at home, because that is something he values.

[Psychstache]

I'm not so sure that I would really back off the horseshit comment, even if it does sound harsh.  My disappointment that my daughter has no savings, and little desire to emulate her parents beliefs on the issue of frugality, compounded by a fairly low income, can be expressed using that exact word. We have a six figure passive income, after FIRE, and we sure as hell don't live like she does. Eventually she will grow up and realize that she can't live the life of a trust fund brat, spending $50 PP, per meal, and other silliness, or maybe not, and she will end up with a painful financial crash heading her way.

Not to be all super morbid about it, but could your daughter think  that she can live the YOLO life because when you and your wife are gone, she is gonna get a huge windfall (given a 6 figure passive income) and that she CAN live like a trust fund baby?

[nobody123]

On our last date night, my parents babysat for us.  When we got home, I put my wallet, keys, and the receipt from dinner on the island in the kitchen while I hung up my coat.  It was a fancy dinner at an excellent restaurant in the trendy part of town, included a couple of mixed drinks and glasses of wine, several appetizers and dessert.  Absolutely fabulous service so I tipped about 30%.  My wife and I get to have a nice grown-up meal alone like twice a year, so we enjoy the experience and are willing to spend the money on it.  My dad glanced at the bill of almost $300 and asked if I was insane.  He asked if I knew how many Big Macs that would have bought.  There's no way he would ever spend anything close to that on dinner for himself and my mother, so I would never even bother offering to take them to a place like that.  When we take them out for dinner, Macaroni Grill is about as nice as we go, because they are uncomfortable in the trendy, high priced places.  I haven't had a good meal there in like 5 years, but they enjoy it so we suck it up and are happy they are happy.

[dividend]

Ugh, my in-laws are like that.  We took them to one of our favorite (pricey) restaurants, and made it clear we were treating them.  They couldn't even enjoy it because of how much it cost.  Sat there looking uncomfortable and trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu.  And yet they go to places like Bob Evans or Applebees all the time.  I thought they'd appreciate a treat since they never go out to a nice restaurant.  We won't make that mistake again with people who can't appreciate it.

Something being a treat does not automatically make it easier to waste money.

I know.  It's one our favorite, rare treat kind of restaurants.  The chef had recently won a James Beard award and we have always been blown away by the food and the experience, and knowing that they would probably not try it on their own, we were excited to share it with them.  It sucked to feel like we had wasted our money trying to share it with them.  I always struggle to find awesome gifts for them for birthdays or holidays, and I thought I spending an evening with them at a restaurant we love was a great solution.  Lesson learned.  :(

You missed my point.

Just because someone else treat's me does not make it any easier for me to waste money. If I go to a $100/plate restaurant I will feel it's a waste of money regardless of who pays. Even if my company pays I will still feel like it is a waste of money.

Particularly if I feel someone is trying to impress me with lavish spending.

You could have hypertrophied frugality muscles. Other people's spending is causing you distress!

I would not have understood that because I've never felt that way.  I guess I thought that the reason that they didn't go out to nice restaurants was that they didn't see that as a good use of their money.  Didn't consider that maybe they don't see that as a good use of anyone's money.  That might be the case, and would explain the way they acted.  I hope they didn't think we were trying to "impress them with lavish spending."  :(

I've certainly in my life been treated to nicer things/experiences than I would say I could afford - restaurants, vacations, experiences, and I've always enjoyed the heck out of it as the treat it was intended to be.  I've also treated people I care about because I wanted them to experience something awesome.  And the in-laws are the only ones who made me wish I'd just bought them a gift card somewhere. 

[I'm a red panda]

Didn't consider that maybe they don't see that as a good use of anyone's money.

I've been told by my boss that my expense reports are extraordinarily low, and he wanted to make sure I knew it was no problem at all to go to nice dinners when out on company business.

Even when it's not my money- it is hard to see it spent in a way that I find wasteful.

Of course, if I could get them to expense theatre tickets in the way they expense other people's drinking, I'd be thrilled to waste the company money!

[I'm a red panda]

And the in-laws are the only ones who made me wish I'd just bought them a gift card somewhere.

That is kind of sad. You should never make a gift-giver feel bad.

[Chris22]

Didn't consider that maybe they don't see that as a good use of anyone's money.

I've been told by my boss that my expense reports are extraordinarily low, and he wanted to make sure I knew it was no problem at all to go to nice dinners when out on company business.

Even when it's not my money- it is hard to see it spent in a way that I find wasteful.

Of course, if I could get them to expense theatre tickets in the way they expense other people's drinking, I'd be thrilled to waste the company money!

When I travel for work, I consider a nice dinner compensation for the time away from my family.  I'm not going crazy, but I'm not going to feel bad about some decent wine and a nice steak either.  Doesn't hurt that I don't generally do much for breakfast (hotel continental bfast) or lunch (sandwich somewhere), so a nice dinner is fine. 

[I'm a red panda]

Didn't consider that maybe they don't see that as a good use of anyone's money.

I've been told by my boss that my expense reports are extraordinarily low, and he wanted to make sure I knew it was no problem at all to go to nice dinners when out on company business.

Even when it's not my money- it is hard to see it spent in a way that I find wasteful.

Of course, if I could get them to expense theatre tickets in the way they expense other people's drinking, I'd be thrilled to waste the company money!

When I travel for work, I consider a nice dinner compensation for the time away from my family.  I'm not going crazy, but I'm not going to feel bad about some decent wine and a nice steak either.  Doesn't hurt that I don't generally do much for breakfast (hotel continental bfast) or lunch (sandwich somewhere), so a nice dinner is fine.

Oh, I go out to eat extravagantly by my standards- easily $30-50 a day (and often our lunch is provided).  But most people drink a lot so they are closer to $100 a day.

[mak1277]

Didn't consider that maybe they don't see that as a good use of anyone's money.

I've been told by my boss that my expense reports are extraordinarily low, and he wanted to make sure I knew it was no problem at all to go to nice dinners when out on company business.

Even when it's not my money- it is hard to see it spent in a way that I find wasteful.

Of course, if I could get them to expense theatre tickets in the way they expense other people's drinking, I'd be thrilled to waste the company money!

When I travel for work, I consider a nice dinner compensation for the time away from my family.  I'm not going crazy, but I'm not going to feel bad about some decent wine and a nice steak either.  Doesn't hurt that I don't generally do much for breakfast (hotel continental bfast) or lunch (sandwich somewhere), so a nice dinner is fine.

Oh, I go out to eat extravagantly by my standards- easily $30-50 a day (and often our lunch is provided).  But most people drink a lot so they are closer to $100 a day.

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

[I'm a red panda]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exceptional cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

[mak1277]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

[Chris22]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

[patchyfacialhair]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

Ditto. Went there a couple weeks ago as it was walking distance from the wife's hotel accommodations. Porterhouse for two...dear God I almost died it was so good (and I make a mean steak at home just fine). I prematurely cashed out some CC cash back points to ease the pain but it was so worth it. I've never had a steak ever measure up to that delicious monstrosity. And it gave us leftovers for the next day. Double awesomeness.

[I'm a red panda]

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Whereas I've never had a steak at Del Friscos that I thought was worth even a small fraction of what they charged for it.  I've never eaten a steak out that was worth the price though.

I mean, they make a damn good steak, don't get me wrong.  But if we buy high quality meat, we can get pretty close to the same thing (in my opinion. I'll make sure not to serve steak if you ever come over ;))

[MgoSam]

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Whereas I've never had a steak at Del Friscos that I thought was worth even a small fraction of what they charged for it.  I've never eaten a steak out that was worth the price though.

I mean, they make a damn good steak, don't get me wrong.  But if we buy high quality meat, we can get pretty close to the same thing (in my opinion. I'll make sure not to serve steak if you ever come over ;))

I'm not familiar with steakhouses as my family generally avoids beef for religious reasons, so we didn't go to places like Ruth. What is the difference between their steaks and the ones we cook at home? Any advice for getting better steaks at home? I'm starting to appreciate grilling and would love advice at getting a better steak to result.

[tarheeldan]

I'm not familiar with steakhouses as my family generally avoids beef for religious reasons, so we didn't go to places like Ruth. What is the difference between their steaks and the ones we cook at home? Any advice for getting better steaks at home? I'm starting to appreciate grilling and would love advice at getting a better steak to result.

My favorite method is to sear quickly, usually in a pan, and finish in the oven. Then coat with a little butter.

[Chris22]

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Whereas I've never had a steak at Del Friscos that I thought was worth even a small fraction of what they charged for it.  I've never eaten a steak out that was worth the price though.

I mean, they make a damn good steak, don't get me wrong.  But if we buy high quality meat, we can get pretty close to the same thing (in my opinion. I'll make sure not to serve steak if you ever come over ;))

I'm not familiar with steakhouses as my family generally avoids beef for religious reasons, so we didn't go to places like Ruth. What is the difference between their steaks and the ones we cook at home? Any advice for getting better steaks at home? I'm starting to appreciate grilling and would love advice at getting a better steak to result.

More cooking method than quality of beef; you can go to a good butcher and get high quality beef.  Ruth Chris (and others) are excellent at being able to cook at EXTREMELY high heat, whereas I struggle to get my grill over about 700* on charcoal. 

[Tjat]

I'm not familiar with steakhouses as my family generally avoids beef for religious reasons, so we didn't go to places like Ruth. What is the difference between their steaks and the ones we cook at home? Any advice for getting better steaks at home? I'm starting to appreciate grilling and would love advice at getting a better steak to result.

Visit AmazingRibs.com. It's like MMM mixed with the madfientist, but about grilling and BBQ.

His method varies based on the thickness of the steak. For steaks < 1 inch, add rub, lightly coat with veggie oil and sear as quickly as possible, rotating frequently to get the right color and avoid grill marks. For thicker steaks (what you'd find in a fancy steakhouse), he advocates the reverse sear method. So cook at low indirect heat (225 degrees F) until you get the meat to 120 or so. Then crank up the direct heat and sear both sides to serve the steak medium-rare.

[mak1277]

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Whereas I've never had a steak at Del Friscos that I thought was worth even a small fraction of what they charged for it.  I've never eaten a steak out that was worth the price though.

I mean, they make a damn good steak, don't get me wrong.  But if we buy high quality meat, we can get pretty close to the same thing (in my opinion. I'll make sure not to serve steak if you ever come over ;))

I'm not familiar with steakhouses as my family generally avoids beef for religious reasons, so we didn't go to places like Ruth. What is the difference between their steaks and the ones we cook at home? Any advice for getting better steaks at home? I'm starting to appreciate grilling and would love advice at getting a better steak to result.

More cooking method than quality of beef; you can go to a good butcher and get high quality beef.  Ruth Chris (and others) are excellent at being able to cook at EXTREMELY high heat, whereas I struggle to get my grill over about 700* on charcoal.

Yeah the heating method is key...the broilers they use are 1200* or more. 

Also, I really do believe the quality of the meat is superior to what you can buy in a normal grocery store.  Restaurants are buying whole sides of beef and dry aging...I'm not sure how many people are doing that at home.

In general I agree with iowajes...You can get damn close at home to what you can order at a restaurant.  But I do believe the really high end steak places offer something better than what I can replicate on my grill or in my non-commerical broiler.

I also agree that when it comes to spending money at a restaurant, I'd prefer to go for seafood or ethnic cuisine that I can't replicate at all.

[MrsDinero]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

I asked my friend (who was chef in a previous life) about this and he said the secret is butter and lots of it.  They basically dump butter all over it, let it melt before putting it on the plate to be served.

[Chris22]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

I asked my friend (who was chef in a previous life) about this and he said the secret is butter and lots of it.  They basically dump butter all over it, let it melt before putting it on the plate to be served.

Oh trust me, I've tried that.  Cooked up a nice ribeye and dumped melted butter on it.  Still not the same.  I really think it's the cooking temps.

[paddedhat]

I'm not so sure that I would really back off the horseshit comment, even if it does sound harsh.  My disappointment that my daughter has no savings, and little desire to emulate her parents beliefs on the issue of frugality, compounded by a fairly low income, can be expressed using that exact word. We have a six figure passive income, after FIRE, and we sure as hell don't live like she does. Eventually she will grow up and realize that she can't live the life of a trust fund brat, spending $50 PP, per meal, and other silliness, or maybe not, and she will end up with a painful financial crash heading her way.

Not to be all super morbid about it, but could your daughter think  that she can live the YOLO life because when you and your wife are gone, she is gonna get a huge windfall (given a 6 figure passive income) and that she CAN live like a trust fund baby?

Interesting question. The most likely answer is no. First, there is the probability that I'll still be around thirty years from now, so it would be a long wait. Second, I know that she doesn't have half a clue as to our finances. The other issue is the fierce independence both kids developed. Once they stepped out of their universities, they have never asked us for a dime. They have both told us that one of the reasons for that is that they are surrounded by fellow grads who are up to their ears in student debt and barely surviving, and they didn't have to borrow a dime for their educations, since mom and dad covered it.

[Sibley]

So we'll invite them over for dinner sometimes and I'll cook something I'd consider a bit nicer - fresh bruschetta from homegrown ingredients to start and blue mussels with white wine sauce over linguine last night for example - and I can tell FIL is not a huge fan:)  MIL loves my cooking though and since it was mother's day that's what counted.

I'll make chilli topped with pre-grated bagged cheddar for dad in law next time:)

To be honest, the only thing in that meal that I would want to eat is the bread (which sounds good). I don't like gourmet food in general, and if he's the same way then of course he's not going to appreciate that meal.

I agree, he might be blown away if you serve well prepared freshly made simple food. Homemade chilli with freshly grated extra-sharp cheddar sounds more appealing to me than the pasta dish you served (I'll still take your bruschetta though).

Hold the cheese...  :)

[chouchouu]

This reminds me of when I was a Uni student and had a side gig as a caterer. I had a good friend who was very wealthy, his mother was an ambassador and the father worked in finance but he was incredibly stingy and I avoided going out with him because he often " forgot his wallet!"

He was a fun friend and I didn't have my drivers license so he offered to drive me (in my sisters car) to a meeting I had with a catering client. The catering gig was being finalised, they would select their food and pay the 50% deposit. Now I introduced my friend and proceeded with the discussions, then my friend butted in and made a dessert suggestion. This was awkward and crazy, I'm not going to cook something he suggests, it's not his business, they already made their selections etc. I was furious and the clients confused but I politely proceeded with the meeting, took our deposit and left. I decided not to make a fuss about it and move on. I suggested we go out for dinner and was thinking about a cheap noodle place in china town. My friend says he can pick a good place because he considers himself a foodie. He gets out a restaurant guide and chooses an expensive place, when I voice my concerns he says we should celebrate my catering gig. I'm a bit annoyed but consider that I just won't order much and I'm interested in trying this place since I grew up in the restaurant industry. Now because my friend is famous for forgetting his wallet I remind him to take some money out as we pass an atm. He assures me he has his wallet and enough money.

As it turns out the restaurant owner recognises me as my mother owned a famous restaurant supply business. It is well known that a certain restaurant reviewer for a big broadsheet is good friends with my mother and the restauranter brings him up and it so happens that I was ghost writing a cookbook with this restaurant reviewer. The restauranter is eager to impress me because of this connection and brings out free appetisers and dessert. We only had to cover our mains but because it was an expensive restaurant the bill came to over a hundred dollars. Now my friend would have been totally aware of the prices since it's mentioned in the restaurant guidebook and he chose the place. He only had $40 on him! I was furious, if we hadn't been comped so much food the bill would have been over $200 for me to pay. So I paid the bill and left a generous tip which is what I was trained to do since we eat at many client restaurants for my mothers business. As we were leaving my friend pocketed the tip I left! I was absolutely gobsmacked. After that incident I decided I no longer wanted to friends with him and I avoided him for a good six months. We did end up repairing the friendship as apart from his incredible stinginess he is actually a good friend but I refused to ever eat out with him. Many years later we met up and went to a cheese place, I was fully expecting to have to foot the bill but to my surprise he said he would pay and told me that I had paid for him so often as Uni students it was his turn now that he had a job.

[LeRainDrop]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

I asked my friend (who was chef in a previous life) about this and he said the secret is butter and lots of it.  They basically dump butter all over it, let it melt before putting it on the plate to be served.

Oh trust me, I've tried that.  Cooked up a nice ribeye and dumped melted butter on it.  Still not the same.  I really think it's the cooking temps.

Ohhh, love the Ruth's Chris sizzling butter -- your plate actually is served with the butter still sizzling!  From their website:  "At Ruth's Chris, your last bite is just as good as your first. Our perfected broiling method and seasoning techniques ensure each cut of USDA Prime beef we serve arrives cooked to perfection and sizzling on a 500° plate—just the way Ruth liked it."

[iris lily]

You mentioned Del Frisco's before...that place is EXACTLY my idea of the perfect place to eat on expense account!

Except the bacon they put on their salad (there is something magical about that): Del Friscos is a meal we can easily make at home (my husband is an exception cook)- I just cannot do it.  Except for my sister who adores the place, so it's her fancy occasion thing. I'd rather go to a cheap empanada or Thai food or something like that, because it's harder for me to get at home.

Yeah, I can't agree with that.  I've never had a home cooked steak in my life that was even 50% as good as Del Friscos.

Ruth's Chris is that way for me.  I've made steaks at home that rival all the other decent steak houses, but Ruth's Chris does something special and I can't make anything near as good.  That's why my wife and I try to get there 1x a year for a birthday, anniversary, etc.

The last time I went to Ruth's Chris I was kind of sickened by all of the butter they put on everything. Thats what I remember--everythng swimming in butter. Im sure that the steak was fine but OmG butter!

Since we for years got beef from  DH's family farm, we are picky about hunks of beef at restaurants. While Ruth' Chris and similar jonts have lovely thick cuts that we dont  have, their beef is only a notch or two above what we eat. And then there is ths place in St. louis called
Mortons' Steakhouse  house that is the most absurdly pretentious place Ive ever been to. Each dish is a la carte and expensive. The decor is not interesting or rich looking or fresh.  And then, they have a special locker for each diner who wants to keep their own personal wines at the restaurant. I cannot grok that.

I'm just not a fan of high end steakhouses, but I love going to high end restaurants otherwise. Love high end Italian or fusion or new cuisine/James Beard young chef types of places.

[tomsang]

Interesting Rant - I am sure the in-laws are talking about you as much as you are talking about them.  For non-mustachians, this dinner seems like a very normal dinner.  This type of meal is something that we have on a regular basis with family and friends.  It would not be unusual to drop $300 for six people.  Drinks, Appetizers, entre and dessert is not crazy for a special event.  Obviously, the father-in-law thought that this was a special meeting of the potential new family.  He probably is telling his friends and family how anti-social you were not to partake in the special meal. 

I can see him saying, "Can you believe that they only ordered an appetizer and tap water, they didn't partake in the celebration.  They looked at us like we were crazy the whole time.  Then when the bill came they were going to stick the bill to our lovely son and his fiancé.  Crazy, huh.  They make good money, but they were going to make this up and coming couple pick up the bill.  Really cheap, right?  He finally threw a few bills in the pile but I had to pick up most of the cost.  I am not sure about these in-laws. I hope my son is not making a huge mistake with his love of his life.  They were really rude, I hope she isn't like her parents."

I think MMM would have had a blast at the meal, paid way more than his fair share, and been a partaking in the celebration.  Next time he would orchestrate the social events to his house.  He would invite them to his house for an amazing meal, drinks, coffee, beer, dessert, fancy cheese, etc.  MMM is never cheap, especially with family and friends.

   

[paddedhat]

Tomsang, LOL, you're right. A self absorbed, narcissist like the other dad definitely analyzed everything to the excruciating detail you describe, as he reflected on the evenings events. We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

 Your MMM fantasy is entertaining however. I seriously doubt that a guy like Pete would be dropping a wad of cash to impress anybody, or to cover other peoples out of control spending. Actually, let me rephrase that, there is no fucking way he would do that. Secondly, I would doubt that he would be inviting this couple over for a wine and cheese party. Maybe it's just me, but if I really find somebody's behavior to be offensive, I don't go out of my way to invite them to my own home for "amazing" anything. My home is for friends, and family, this chucklenut is neither. 

[mak1277]

Tomsang, LOL, you're right. A self absorbed, narcissist like the other dad definitely analyzed everything to the excruciating detail you describe, as he reflected on the evenings events. We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

So basically you're saying he's not as petty as you are?

[Fishindude]

Funny !
Sounds just like my sister in law.  She absolutely loves that big city downtown atmosphere with $400 dinners, $100 per bottle wine, $20 martinis, etc. always trying to get us to go along.
Then when she gets around others she just goes on and on about these high priced muckety muck joints and how great they are.

No thanks. 
The money doesn't bother me near as bad as the phony atmosphere and people.
I'd prefer to grill a steak sitting by a campfire at the lake any day over that crap.

[paddedhat]

Tomsang, LOL, you're right. A self absorbed, narcissist like the other dad definitely analyzed everything to the excruciating detail you describe, as he reflected on the evenings events. We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

So basically you're saying he's not as petty as you are?

 

I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read this, LMAO.

 No, sadly I am no looker, by a long shot. Closest mental description I could think of would be the grey haired love child of Roseanne Barr and Grizzly Adams. I generally remember to brush my teeth, and occasionally trim the beard back, to reduce small animal infestations, but I'm nothing compared this guy.

[mak1277]

Tomsang, LOL, you're right. A self absorbed, narcissist like the other dad definitely analyzed everything to the excruciating detail you describe, as he reflected on the evenings events. We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

So basically you're saying he's not as petty as you are?

 

I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read this, LMAO.

 No, sadly I am no looker, by a long shot. Closest mental description I could think of would be the grey haired love child of Roseanne Barr and Grizzly Adams. I generally remember to brush my teeth, and occasionally trim the beard back, to reduce small animal infestations, but I'm nothing compared this guy.

Not "pRetty"...I wrote "petty".  As in "mean or ungenerous in small or trifling things".

[tomsang]

My home is for friends, and family, this chucklenut is neither.

Sounds like Daddy does not approve of his little daughter's future husband. I am concerned about the negativity that you project towards your daughter's future father-in-law.  Hopefully, it is limited to this chat board, but if you have the disdain that you reflect upon him I worry that it is seeping out to your daughter, her future husband, and the in-laws.  You may be projecting negativity without knowing it to them, which puts them both in a challenging situation of both of them loving their parents, but despising how the other one acts or treats the family.  And your quote about only inviting friends and family is interesting as you started off the thread saying that your daughter may be marrying soon, with a jab at the future father-in-law calling him a chucklenut.

Most of your quotes are very insulting to this potential in-law.   

I can only hope that my daughter snaps out of it, and that the whole lifestyle grows tiring. She wasn't raised like this, and certainly doesn't have the income to support this silliness. As for the future son in law, well it wouldn't break my heart if it doesn't work out.

The son is growing on us, and recently crossed the threshold from, "Jees, I hope she dumps that douche" to, "well it's her choice, and he does have a good side". I guess the deeper issue with my rant is that I'm most likely going to acquire one of these chucklenuts as a relative by marriage, and it isn't a pleasant thought.

As for the dad being embarrassed?  Seriously, that isn't part of this guy's DNA. An ego like that doesn't do embarrassed.

"Perhaps a bit more info. on our mafia Don would help? The guy is a retired civil servant, with a very modest income. Totally cool by me, he could be living a modest lifestyle and enjoying his remaining time on this rock. Instead of dealing with it, he drags his family from one financial crisis to the next, insists on living in a new gated community, in a trophy home they cannot afford, and drives a leased Mercedes.  If I have a low opinion of the guy, it isn't because I'm a dick, or some hick who doesn't drink designer water,

it's because he is all about everything that I have no respect for, and at some level this lifestyle is manifesting itself in my daughter's decision making. "

We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

Maybe it's just me, but if I really find somebody's behavior to be offensive, I don't go out of my way to invite them to my own home for "amazing" anything. My home is for friends, and family, this chucklenut is neither.

Be as nice as you can be to your daughter's future father-in-law.

[paddedhat]

Tom, there really is no need to quote everything comment I made regard to the guy, or decide that you are a self-appointed psychiatrist. As I said previously, I came HERE to comment on a brief encounter with a real character whom I have no respect for, or interest in being involved with.  I was not looking for relationship advice for one very specific reason. That being, my opinions expressed here have nothing to do with how I handled, or will continue the handle, occasional contact with him.  It's simple, we have both geographic and emotional distance from the situation. If my daughter's relationship with her SO continues, there may be a few hours at a wedding, or similar affair, where we will interact, in the coming years.  Like the first event, I am perfectly capable of being gracious and civil, when it happens. I would also expect that he would continue to be the same dick he was, and that's fine. It's no different that a client, in my business. Some revealed themselves to be great people who you develop long term relationships with, some were decent and the projects were uneventful, some are assholes. Everybody gets treated with the same respect, in the context of the "golden rule".

Your concern for my daughter is also misplaced. I already stated that the wife and I will not be speaking negatively of him, if the daughter brings the matter up.  If you recall, as you dug through all these posts, I also stated the my daughter AND her SO both think Mr. Mafia is a world class asshole. Thereby making it a bit difficult to harm my daughter's relationship with him by speaking negatively, which as were are aware, I won't do anyway.

[paddedhat]

Tomsang, LOL, you're right. A self absorbed, narcissist like the other dad definitely analyzed everything to the excruciating detail you describe, as he reflected on the evenings events. We are talking about a guy with horrendously styled and dyed hair, some kind of a mafia style leisure suit, and a trump like ego. I doubt he can even recall my name at this point, which doesn't trouble me in the least.Regrettably, you have a swing and a miss on this one.

So basically you're saying he's not as petty as you are?

 

I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read this, LMAO.

 No, sadly I am no looker, by a long shot. Closest mental description I could think of would be the grey haired love child of Roseanne Barr and Grizzly Adams. I generally remember to brush my teeth, and occasionally trim the beard back, to reduce small animal infestations, but I'm nothing compared this guy.

Not "pRetty"...I wrote "petty".  As in "mean or ungenerous in small or trifling things".

MY bad, my brain immediately went to pretty, and the laughing began. As for petty, I would assume it to be a snarky question, and I have to be honest, I really couldn't care. There is a rather strange minority of the posters here who have some pretty odd responses, including name calling, attacking my character, and being junior psychologists. Whatever does it for you, if you need to see me as petty, if you need to conjure imaginary  slights to my daughter, or pretend that you are the next Dear Abby, please don't let me get in the way. If it blows your skirt up, feel free...............As for me, I'm off to work on getting pretty.

[Miskatonic]

MY bad, my brain immediately went to pretty, and the laughing began. As for petty, I would assume it to be a snarky question, and I have to be honest, I really couldn't care. There is a rather strange minority of the posters here who have some pretty odd responses, including name calling, attacking my character, and being junior psychologists. Whatever does it for you, if you need to see me as petty, if you need to conjure imaginary  slights to my daughter, or pretend that you are the next Dear Abby, please don't let me get in the way. If it blows your skirt up, feel free...............As for me, I'm off to work on getting pretty.

You are exhibiting the same behavior towards "Mr. Mafia." Your failure to recognize that and your mean spirited/defensive posting style rub some here the wrong way. There's nothing odd about it.

[Seppia]

Man, it's not that the world is out to get you.
It's that every time somebody suggests "hey maybe you're being a dick as well" you respond in a way that actually proves and reinforces the point.

This is a very supportive community in general, if you experience some criticism you could maybe start thinking something other than "you are all trolls/wrong"

[NoraLenderbee]

This is the point-and-laugh board, where we openly mock people in ways that we would never do in front of them. Paddedhat is doing exactly that. Why is he being told he's acting like a dick and has relationship problems? He has made it abundantly clear that he is NOT saying any of this to the person he's talking about, or to his daughter. People need to lay off.

[iris lily]

This is the point-and-laugh board, where we openly mock people in ways that we would never do in front of them. Paddedhat is doing exactly that. Why is he being told he's acting like a dick and has relationship problems? He has made it abundantly clear that he is NOT saying any of this to the person he's talking about, or to his daughter. People need to lay off.

Agreed. i enjoyed vicariouly meetin magia don thru OP.

[Cassie]

It was fun to read about.

[shelivesthedream]

My husband is someone who always wants to split the bill equally when we go out in a group. He doesn't like fussing after a meal with working out who had what, and I've never heard of being able to ask for separate bills (UK). However, he's often the one who ordered something expensive and had wine whereas I'll have had water or a lemonade and ordered the least expensive (vegetarian) option. In my experience, after I have pointed out to him (after the fact) the vast difference between our respective portions of the bill, he is surprised that his was so much more. It's not that he doesn't pay attention to what he has ordered, but he doesn't pay attention to what everyone else ordered. He knows I don't drink but he doesn't really pay attention to it. He knows he ordered the duck but he doesn't really pay attention to what I ordered. Not because he's an asshole but because we're all talking and having fun and interacting with the other people as much as with the food, let alone other people's food. I'm sure it's not true for everyone, but I just thought I'd offer a small comment on people who assume that splitting the bill equally is fair. (If they have a big argument about it after it's pointed out, that's another matter...)

I also feel uncomfortable in fancy restaurants, whereas he loves them. It's not so much the expense for me as the atmosphere. I feel like I can't chatter and enjoy myself because it's all so smart and the waiters are just lurking behind you silently, making you feel judged for everything you order and the way you eat... I just can't relax in a place like that, no matter how good the food is. I do have good table manners and I do know how to behave in fancy restaurants but I still just don't feel comfortable. I'd rather go to our local pizza place, even if it is a bit crappy, because I can have fun there.

[Tjat]

This is the point-and-laugh board, where we openly mock people in ways that we would never do in front of them. Paddedhat is doing exactly that. Why is he being told he's acting like a dick and has relationship problems? He has made it abundantly clear that he is NOT saying any of this to the person he's talking about, or to his daughter. People need to lay off.

Agreed. i enjoyed vicariouly meetin magia don thru OP.

Agreed. I thought paddedhat expressed the situation well. Describing a spendypants asshole trying to swing a big dick isn't a character flaw.... My guess is the critics get the description of The Don hit a little too close to home

[BlueHouse]

This is the point-and-laugh board, where we openly mock people in ways that we would never do in front of them. Paddedhat is doing exactly that. Why is he being told he's acting like a dick and has relationship problems? He has made it abundantly clear that he is NOT saying any of this to the person he's talking about, or to his daughter. People need to lay off.

+1000
Well said Nora.