Author Topic: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!  (Read 1583 times)

aperture

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Location: Denver
Interviewed a great applicant for a specialty MD position.  I really liked this guy and he volunteered a sort of rags to MD story that was a little heart-breaking.  But the heart breaker (that keeps on breaking) was the quick aside he made during a panel interview when he mentioned that he had around $500K in student loan debt.  I was floored and still am not sure I believe anyone can achieve that level of debt.  Perhaps it was hyperbole? 
Aperture

talltexan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 07:15:56 AM »
Look, it's a shocking amount, but if he's a specialty MD, it should be an easy matter for him to clean up simply by earning his way out. Would a $300,000 salary be ridiculous with this job you interviewed for? He could pay off those loans in 3 years.

patchyfacialhair

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 259
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 07:17:15 AM »
50k per year loans for 4 years of undergrad
50k per year loans for 4 years medical school
4 years income based payments while in residency, so the payments are probably not even covering all the interest. Not to mention unsubsidized loans accruing interest while in school.

500k sounds correct.


Gondolin

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 236
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 09:50:20 AM »
Quote
I really liked this guy and he volunteered a sort of rags to MD story that was a little heart-breaking.

Let me guess, first in his family to go to college? Thus, didn't really understand how student loans worked?

 
Quote
But the heart breaker (that keeps on breaking) was the quick aside he made during a panel interview when he mentioned that he had around $500K in student loan debt.

If you like him, hire him. It's corporate evil but, you'll have tons of leverage over him until he gets out of debt.

BCpuppy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 10:16:15 AM »
One of my husband's fellow dental school buds had over $400,000 for dental school.  70K a year for out of state dental tuition and 100K for undergrad and you are there....

Abe

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17:13 AM »
$500k is on the high end for medical school, but could be possible if they didn't receive any undergraduate scholarships, never worked part-time, paid off none of the interest and went to both a private college and private med school.

It's a big gamble but if he specialized and doesn't blow all his money on status symbols, his salary will pay that off in a 5-10 years.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3167
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 10:27:50 AM »
Quote
But the heart breaker (that keeps on breaking) was the quick aside he made during a panel interview when he mentioned that he had around $500K in student loan debt.

If you like him, hire him. It's corporate evil but, you'll have tons of leverage over him until he gets out of debt.

Yeah it's sad but that was my first thought as well.

I'm just glad that the applicant is a MD and not someone that got that debt from someone that's got their PHD in English or Philosophy.

ltt

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 06:09:29 PM »
I would fully expect someone with a specialty MD to have that amount in loans.  If they don't, great; but if they do, it wouldn't phase me in the least.

thingamabobs

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 120
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2017, 12:54:44 AM »
I think white coat investor recently posted a reader reported about 900k in loans as the highest he's heard of. That was for an oral maxillofacial surgeon, so I believe it's college, dental and med school and all the accrued interest for residency and fellowship.

I think avg loans a med student graduates with from a private school is $250k these days.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 12:56:30 AM by thingamabobs »

aperture

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Location: Denver
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 06:43:06 AM »
I agree with you all that the ratio of income to loan balance is not so bad. But, it just seems terribly inefficient to spend 12 years post- high school accumulating $500K debt to be able to practice medicine. I expect high debt from med school, but have never heard a number so big. Thanks for the comments. Aperture

LalsConstant

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 403
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 07:46:05 AM »
I understand medicine has to be a profession with a very high barrier to entry for public safety but there are many times where I wonder if the training required isn't more than a bit excessive to accomplish the objectives of adequate competence and public safety.  Also, licensing rules tend to be designed to drive the salaries of pre-existing doctors up.

It seems like an audit of the standards and a reform of the professional licensing requirements to put things in line with reality should make the training still exhaustive but a bit less over the top, significantly decreasing the individual physician's opportunity cost and relaxing his salary requirements to recover the investment, as well as helping drive down the cost of health care with no real reduction in the quality thereof.

It wouldn't take much, if that surgeon for example was ready in ten years instead of twelve, I doubt he'd be any less ready and he'd have considerably less debt.

frugaldoc

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
    • thehappyphilosopher
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 08:30:51 AM »
Sadly this number seems quite probably. Some medical schools now run 50k plus per year, add another 20k in private loans for living expenses that's almost 300k. Add in accrued interest and undergraduate debt and 500k comes very fast.

The good news is many physicians can out earn this with relative ease and pay it off quickly if they just live like a resident for a few years. 500K is an extra mortgage payment.

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/live-like-a-resident/
http://thehappyphilosopher.com/
Enlightened Awesomeness - A Guide to Freedom and Happiness

moof

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 208
  • Location: Beaver Town Orygun
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 11:10:59 AM »
I understand medicine has to be a profession with a very high barrier to entry for public safety but there are many times where I wonder if the training required isn't more than a bit excessive to accomplish the objectives of adequate competence and public safety.  Also, licensing rules tend to be designed to drive the salaries of pre-existing doctors up.

There are a number of professions whose professional organizations seem hell bent on putting up barriers to keep salaries high.  Public safety is also hurt, and badly, when a large swath of the population can't afford even a modest illness without financial calamity.

I see the hellish intern hours as a symptom of this.  You need to foster a God complex to keep docs seeing themselves as more important than patients.  So much wrong with the medical industry these days...

gimp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
Re: During job interview, applicant revealed he has $500K of student loans!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2017, 10:14:31 PM »
Specialty MD should be getting paid enough to make those loans not be a serious issue. Still a decent investment.

aperture

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Location: Denver
Specialty MD should be getting paid enough to make those loans not be a serious issue. Still a decent investment.

Seen this comment in this thread a few times now.  Looked up average wage for this specialty in this area: $212K/year.   Put wage into a simple calculator for taxes and came up with annual take home of $134.7K = $11.2K/month

$500k at 5.0% x 10 year repayment period = $5,250/month payment

The impact of this debt will be 10 years of $6000/month take home which is equal to a salary of $112,000 per year.  Now on the scale of starting salaries, $112K may sound amazing, but this guy spent 4 years undergrad, 4 years in medical school and 3 years post-doctoral (including a relocation) to achieve this starting salary. 

I just hope he continues to love being a doctor, because he is going to be one for a long time.  Fortunately for him, if he takes our job, he will have me putting little prompts in front of him to think about making smart choices with his $s.

Best to all, Ap.

Not Your Monkey

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Yup. A cousin with very little financial savvy graduated recently with $480k debt. She's going into general medicine and is NOT "living like a resident" because after all this time as a starving student she "deserves" to spoil herself. I worry about her but haven't been able to even bring up the topic without making her very defensive. So now I just bite my tongue and offer a sympathetic ear when she complains about being so poor, then quickly change the subject.

In the Millionaire Next Door, there are several pages dedicated to doctors specifically being high income earners but under accumulators of wealth. Somewhat understandable since there are societal pressures of what a doctor should look like.

As a contrast, my frugal pediatrician friend still drives the same car he did 14 years ago (Toyota corolla) and brings his lunch to work every day. His medical assistants always eat out and tease him about his car, telling him a doctor should be driving a BMW or something fancy like that. He just smiles goodnaturedly but tells me "and that's why they will never be rich."  We've never actually talked about it, but I'm pretty sure this friend of mine has read the Millionaire Next Door.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:15:43 AM by Not Your Monkey »

Abe

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
Your cousin will hopefully quickly realize that math doesn't care about her living like a student, and it still applies to doctors.  I hear this a lot from medicine residents in their last (3rd) year at my hospital, but they quickly quiet down after they realize I've been a resident for 5 years and am not whining. People shouldn't go into medicine to get rich, there are much better ways to do that. A lot of them are from privileged backgrounds (as am I) and their definition of a "normal" standard of living is really upper-middle class. That's fine, but if one has a huge amount of debt, they can't expect that right out of the gate. You'd hope they'd be used to a middle class standard of living by now.