Author Topic: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?  (Read 17853 times)

PNW Lady

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2018, 11:18:15 AM »
Well, here we go...

In a nutshell, yes, the numbers in the article seem reasonable, but it is all a matter of personal choice.

I am going back to work in a professional services firm and had to buy an entirely new wardrobe since I've been removed from this type of environment for the last three years and am now at least one size larger than I used to be (sigh). I consider my position a highly visible one and often have to present to the shareholders and/or the entire firm, so my appearance is important (to me). I have taken the last three years off from most personal grooming (to save money and because I just didn't give a fuck), and honestly I am ready to go back to it.

I just dropped $3K on a somewhat minimalist capsule-type wardrobe, and my hope is that I won't buy any more clothing except for an occasional replacement. I usually buy the same stuff in different colors (black, grey, navy) and keep it super neutral. My typical "uniform" is detailed below, averaging $400+ per outfit. My prior professional wardrobe lasted me six years.

slacks or skirt - $100
shell - $50
blazer - $200 or long cardigan - $75
shoes - $150   

I realize this may seem like a lot to most here on the forum, but this is my personal taste. I tend to prefer high-quality pieces with a nice drape and on the conservative side. I am tall with a bit of a bust so standard quick-fashion pieces don't usually work for me. 

I do like the look of light make-up on ladies, but I simply am no good at applying it myself, so I just wear mascara and a nice chapstick and the cost is negligible. I am naturally blond so my eyelashes and eye brows are extremely light, and when I don't wear mascara I get MULTIPLE COMMENTS A DAY that I look tired. Fortunately, I've grown increasingly comfortable with my looks as I've aged. Having said that, I do prefer the look of my eyes with mascara. I notice I feel more confident and "put together", but other than that I keep it pretty simple. 

So then we move on to personal grooming:

hair cut/highlight - $200 every 2 months (used to go every 3 months but now starting to see grey)
eye cream/moisurizer/cleanser - $150 every 4 months (worth the cost, I long struggled with my skin until finding this brand)
shellac nails - $60/mo

I've never gotten regular manicures/pedicures in the past except for special occasions, but recently I tried a shellac manicure for an event and found that I love the way it makes my nails look and feel. I tend to have dry, brittle nails and prefer to keep them on the short side and have often felt insecure about their appearance (do to lack of care). I've decided that I am going to continue with regular manicures for now because my (now) beautiful nails just look so pretty with a light nude color!!

This is my personal choice and I typically don't spend in other areas. As long as we are meeting our savings rate goal of 50% I am comfortable loosening the reigns and spending on personal care and grooming. DH lusts for cars and I lust for a nicely draped blazer;-)

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2018, 11:42:33 AM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

Why are there both black and white oxfords, pumps, and heels... and why does a skirt variation of a uniform even exist? This legitimately does qualify as a cunt tax since government is involved (holy pork, that might just explain the redundancy and inefficiency too).

o2bfree

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2018, 11:47:55 AM »
I realize this may seem like a lot to most here on the forum, but this is my personal taste. I tend to prefer high-quality pieces with a nice drape and on the conservative side. I am tall with a bit of a bust so standard quick-fashion pieces don't usually work for me. 
...
This is my personal choice and I typically don't spend in other areas. As long as we are meeting our savings rate goal of 50% I am comfortable loosening the reigns and spending on personal care and grooming. DH lusts for cars and I lust for a nicely draped blazer;-)

I agree about quality clothes! The cheap stuff looks all fresh and exciting on the rack, but degrades quickly. The lines start sagging and the nap gets all fuzzy where it rubs on anything. The washable things lose their shape the first time washed, the hems curl up, and they snag easily. When I find something I really like, I'll keep it for years, so I'll pay for something that lasts.

Now days though, it seems like even the more expensive brands aren't necessarily made to last. You really have to look closely at the quality of the fabric and stitching to make sure the item is worth its price.

Hirondelle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2018, 12:23:26 PM »
I realize this may seem like a lot to most here on the forum, but this is my personal taste. I tend to prefer high-quality pieces with a nice drape and on the conservative side. I am tall with a bit of a bust so standard quick-fashion pieces don't usually work for me. 
...
This is my personal choice and I typically don't spend in other areas. As long as we are meeting our savings rate goal of 50% I am comfortable loosening the reigns and spending on personal care and grooming. DH lusts for cars and I lust for a nicely draped blazer;-)

I agree about quality clothes! The cheap stuff looks all fresh and exciting on the rack, but degrades quickly. The lines start sagging and the nap gets all fuzzy where it rubs on anything. The washable things lose their shape the first time washed, the hems curl up, and they snag easily. When I find something I really like, I'll keep it for years, so I'll pay for something that lasts.

Now days though, it seems like even the more expensive brands aren't necessarily made to last. You really have to look closely at the quality of the fabric and stitching to make sure the item is worth its price.

This is indeed a problem. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for my clothing if they're made durable and preferably also sustainable (e.g. workers get a fair wage) but some of my "nice" clothes fell apart soon while some of my H&M tops have lasted for years. I now try to shop at thrift stores more often as I figure that clothes that have undergone several washings under someone elses regime will most likely survive a few more and the cost is equal to the cheap H&M stuff.

Dabnasty

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2018, 12:26:39 PM »
Well, here we go...

In a nutshell, yes, the numbers in the article seem reasonable, but it is all a matter of personal choice.

Well, they shouldn't because they're made up :) I was starting to wonder if this was getting missed.

Picked this tidbit out of an article about women and their appearance:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/opinions/what-miss-american-still-cant-do-alaimo/index.html

"A 2017 Groupon study found that, over the course of a woman's lifetime, she'll spend over a quarter of a million dollars more than a man on her appearance ó spurred on by a vast fashion and beauty industry whose stock in trade is the canard that a woman's worth is tied directly to how good she can make herself look."

Holy crap, can that be right, $250,000 more than a guy?

It's not right, CNN misrepresented the numbers, assuming this is the same study:

https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2017/groupons-mobile-app-and-the-big-business-of-beauty/

It says women spend a lifetime total of $225,360 while men spend $175,680. By comparison women spend around $50,000 or 28% more than men. And that's based on a Groupon survey of 2,000 people. I wonder if it's truly a random sampling of the US population or did they survey their spendy customers who are more likely to be at an age where they care about their appearance.

Also, I found the numbers on the Groupon website to doublecheck pymnts and it is the same study. CNN was Wayyyy off.

https://www.groupon.com/merchant/blog/true-cost-beauty-americans-spend-most-survey

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2018, 12:41:56 PM »
I don't wear make up because I have the world's most sensitive skin.

When people would bug me to try make up in my 20s I would give them a hippy feminist spiel about double standards and equal pay. It was most convincing when I was also going braless due to skin sensitivities. Americans are very distracted by nipples.

Sibley

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2018, 01:04:05 PM »
For example, I've wanted to grow my hair longer for years, to simplify the hair routine in the mornings, but every time I walked into a salon I'd either be pressed into a short hairstyle or they'd just cut it short despite my requests to keep it longer.  I hated how I'd come out looking like a 12 year old boy.  Finally I quit going to salons and learned how to cut my own hair.  I've been letting it grow for a couple of years now, and I absolutely love how it looks now.  And all I have to do in the mornings is brush, tie back or clip if I want, and go.

WTH? I hope you demanded your money back when they cut your hair shorter than you instructed. Seriously, that's messed up. They're providing a service, they need to do what they're told to do with your hair regardless of what they think.

diapasoun

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2018, 01:22:40 PM »
For example, I've wanted to grow my hair longer for years, to simplify the hair routine in the mornings, but every time I walked into a salon I'd either be pressed into a short hairstyle or they'd just cut it short despite my requests to keep it longer.  I hated how I'd come out looking like a 12 year old boy.  Finally I quit going to salons and learned how to cut my own hair.  I've been letting it grow for a couple of years now, and I absolutely love how it looks now.  And all I have to do in the mornings is brush, tie back or clip if I want, and go.

WTH? I hope you demanded your money back when they cut your hair shorter than you instructed. Seriously, that's messed up. They're providing a service, they need to do what they're told to do with your hair regardless of what they think.

This happens to my boyfriend all the time, too -- he has long hair, and will ask stylists to do a long trim/only take an inch off, and they'll take 3 or 4 off at a time.

Sibley

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2018, 01:35:21 PM »
For example, I've wanted to grow my hair longer for years, to simplify the hair routine in the mornings, but every time I walked into a salon I'd either be pressed into a short hairstyle or they'd just cut it short despite my requests to keep it longer.  I hated how I'd come out looking like a 12 year old boy.  Finally I quit going to salons and learned how to cut my own hair.  I've been letting it grow for a couple of years now, and I absolutely love how it looks now.  And all I have to do in the mornings is brush, tie back or clip if I want, and go.

WTH? I hope you demanded your money back when they cut your hair shorter than you instructed. Seriously, that's messed up. They're providing a service, they need to do what they're told to do with your hair regardless of what they think.

This happens to my boyfriend all the time, too -- he has long hair, and will ask stylists to do a long trim/only take an inch off, and they'll take 3 or 4 off at a time.

Seriously, I'd make them pay ME if someone did something like that. You can't put hair back on once you've cut it. Your BF needs a better hair cutter - someone who isn't a jerk.

Travis

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2018, 01:47:18 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

To be fair, you did join the Navy where there's a uniform for every single hypothetical occasion.


I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Sailor Sam

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2018, 01:50:28 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

To be fair, you did join the Navy where there's a uniform for every single hypothetical occasion.


I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Bite your tongue, Sirrah! I did not join the Navy. You guys might be lost in a haze of grey, but I'm blaze orange and underway.

I take my revenge for having to own so many shoes out by smiling when the men folk have to polish their acres of oxford leather. The size difference between 5 and 13 seems to equal approximately 30 minutes per shoe.

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2018, 01:54:33 PM »
I believe it, especially for women who pay for services.

I know a lot of people totally don't get spending money or time on superficial things, but I've always been stereotypically girly when it comes to appearance and enjoying clothing, beauty, etc. For me it's really not about social pressure. In fact I'd say I'm definitely more put together or high maintenance looking that most women I work with (I have a torn jeans and sandals casual office), but I just don't feel like myself without doing certain things. I take a lot of pride in my appearance and I find personal care routines to be sort of calming and centering. I feel like I can operate better in the world when I look as good as I can and I'm much more confident.

I mitigate costs by DIY-ing a lot and skipping on designer BS. I do my own deep hair conditioning treatments and I cut my own hair (no hair dyeing for me), I have a mani/pedi pretty much at all times but I DIY that too (learned from youtube!) and I buy nail varnish online for the best prices. I wax/shave at home, I pluck my own eyebrows, do my own facials, take long baths/steams at home, etc. I dress fashionably but inexpensively and often shop off season/discount/thrift. I do my makeup every day, but I only have two real looks (daytime natural and going out) so I only own a tiny pouch of quality sephora products, which I buy with points I get through a work rewards program. All in, it's not that expensive to do these things if you do most of it at home. I make a lot of the products I use or find them discounted online, and I don't overbuy or impulse buy.

If I did the same routine I do now, but outsourced it. Whew, well a mani/pedi every week would be about $40 with tip, a facial can be $150 or more and I do one a week with my DIY plan, waxing is at least $120 if you pay a pro and that's once a month, eyebrow threading can be like another $20, hair cut would be at least $80 plus a tip, and this is all without buying makeup or clothing or soap. So yeah, I definitely see how the spending would be so high for many women.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 01:58:20 PM by rdaneel0 »

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

To be fair, you did join the Navy where there's a uniform for every single hypothetical occasion.


I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Bite your tongue, Sirrah! I did not join the Navy. You guys might be lost in a haze of grey, but I'm blaze orange and underway.

I take my revenge for having to own so many shoes out by smiling when the men folk have to polish their acres of oxford leather. The size difference between 5 and 13 seems to equal approximately 30 minutes per shoe.

The nice thing about the auxiliary is that I can choose not to participate in any event that requires another uniform. So far, I pull off business casual plus ODUs.

Travis

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2018, 02:22:09 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

To be fair, you did join the Navy where there's a uniform for every single hypothetical occasion.


I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Bite your tongue, Sirrah! I did not join the Navy. You guys might be lost in a haze of grey, but I'm blaze orange and underway.

I take my revenge for having to own so many shoes out by smiling when the men folk have to polish their acres of oxford leather. The size difference between 5 and 13 seems to equal approximately 30 minutes per shoe.

Coastie?

ptobeast

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2018, 06:15:41 PM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/

My husband has commented on that a few times. It's disappointing. I had hoped women's sizing would take a cue from men's sizing and become more standardized, not the other way around.

At least when you're looking at women's sizing, you know the number is basically made up and the sizing varies by company. With men's sizing, it's supposed to be consistent! Though, as someone who regularly wears men's pants/shirts (love those pockets), this does explain the baffling logic of why a 33" waist is comfortable over my 36" hips.


No Mustachian will fall for the obvious marketing bullshit, but unfortunately plenty of people of the XX persuasion get as far as the pink flowery section, decide "I'm here-- I have found the product" and so it doesn't occur to them to nose around in the XY section long enough to notice that there's a better buy available. Gendered departments ensure that the same thing happens with unisex clothing items such as T-shirts, bermuda shorts, flip-flops, socks, and the like.


The shopping trip itself takes longer, but is oh so satisfying when you get find what you need at the right price. I recently got a brand new sweater from the kid's section in a great color for significantly less than an adult version would have cost (somehow I'm a US size 8 and there's still sizing overlap with children's clothing).

Or that one year when I needed hiking boots with ankle support, and ended up buying a pair from the men's section as apparently women's high-top hiking boots weren't currently in fashion that season (according to salesperson I talked to). Since when is not spraining your ankle a fashion issue? /rant

Sailor Sam

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2018, 06:25:09 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

To be fair, you did join the Navy where there's a uniform for every single hypothetical occasion.


I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Bite your tongue, Sirrah! I did not join the Navy. You guys might be lost in a haze of grey, but I'm blaze orange and underway.

I take my revenge for having to own so many shoes out by smiling when the men folk have to polish their acres of oxford leather. The size difference between 5 and 13 seems to equal approximately 30 minutes per shoe.

Coastie?

By the grace of God.

OtherJen

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2018, 06:36:18 PM »
I do wonder if you could print measurements on women's pants in the same way we get it for men, or are there too many measurements to fit on a tag?  Waist, hips, length, inseam - anything else?

Technically, yes, you can print the inseam. That doesn't mean it will be correct. Just like my 3 different pairs of jeans that all different number-sizes but the same waist measurement, I've held up pairs of pants that were marked as having the same inseam but very obviously did NOT.

Women's clothing is such a crapshoot. I once bought one pair of pants that I really liked, bought a second pair in the same size but a different color, got the second pair home, and couldn't squeeze the waistband closed. I then tried on the first pair to confirm that I hadn't gained weight; nope, it was definitely the pants.

Dicey

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2018, 12:33:18 AM »
I've read most of the comments and pretty generally agree. On the topic of sizes, I screamingly agree. I sold Men's Clothing at Nordstrom for a decade. OMG, the inequalities and inconsistencies are vast and real.
 
The same shirt costs a different price to launder depending on the gender of the person it is believed to belong to.

But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

furrychickens

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2018, 06:39:32 AM »
In my experience itís almost always women doing it to each other, so it was interesting to see how many folks in this thread have had men being the one with comments.

My wife is in management but spends essentially nothing on beauty items for work/career reasons because itís a food processing company and jewelry, makeup, and fragrances are all forbidden for safety reasons. And outside of work she could give a fuck because she knows I hate the stuff.

And +1 to the comments about menís sizing no longer being very reliable anymore either, though thatís mostly with pants. Shirts are still pretty spot on.

neophyte

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2018, 08:38:21 AM »
As a woman in my early 30s, I'm really starting to notice the expectations that women not age.  Botox, fillers, chemical peels, and facials are everywhere. Hair gets dyed as soon as greys start showing up.

I wear blue jeans and sneakers to work and hardly ever wear makeup, but I'm still planning to make a Botox appointment after I get back from vacation next week. I never realized until I started talking about it how many of my friends were already doing these things.

bluemarie

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2018, 08:57:11 AM »
Women absolutely do it to each other.  We all grow up swimming in the same cultural soup, internalizing the same expectations.  Some of us to a lesser degree, or start questioning what we've absorbed and forming different priorities once we're conscious of this, but others buy all the way in, which is the logical thing to do if you've always seen other women rewarded for being decorative and derided for not giving a damn.  Reinforcing those standards by criticizing other women who aren't meeting them bolsters your own self-perception as someone who is doing it right and will therefore be safe from such punishment.  It's a vicious cycle and sad that it just keeps happening.

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2018, 09:11:54 AM »
As a woman in my early 30s, I'm really starting to notice the expectations that women not age.  Botox, fillers, chemical peels, and facials are everywhere. Hair gets dyed as soon as greys start showing up.

I wear blue jeans and sneakers to work and hardly ever wear makeup, but I'm still planning to make a Botox appointment after I get back from vacation next week. I never realized until I started talking about it how many of my friends were already doing these things.

I'm early 30s too (urban HCOL area) and I'm curious how you feel/see/experience this expectation of not aging. I do think a lot of women freak out in their 30s but I don't really understand it and if my friends are doing these types of treatments they aren't talking about it. I'm not opposed to treatments necessarily, I just find it interesting you're already seeing it at our age. With the exception of people who get really out of shape I don't think 31 looks that drastically different than, say 26.

I guess what I want to know, because I do hear a lot of women talk about this type of pressure and it's not something I feel externally at all, is how the pressure is applied and what would happen if you didn't conform. Like do you think this would affect your work or personal relationships? I want to look a certain way and I'm willing to do DIY beauty treatments and work out daily to achieve my look, but I don't feel like there would be social backlash if I suddenly gained 10 pounds or had wrinkles around my eyes, etc.

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2018, 09:41:15 AM »
But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

This one is 1000% self inflicted. Itís possible to buy a $20 white dress, and a $5000 designer tuxedo.  The fact that almost no one does those two things tells you all you need to know.

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2018, 09:59:36 AM »
But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

This one is 1000% self inflicted. It’s possible to buy a $20 white dress, and a $5000 designer tuxedo.  The fact that almost no one does those two things tells you all you need to know.

Agreed! I feel like conversations on this topic are always so extreme. It's bizarre how people act as if there's no middle ground reasonable way to buy women's items/feminine things! Men's razors are cheaper, so buy men's razors instead, problem solved. Bras are pricy, so buy them on sale once a year.  Designer bridal gowns are insanely overpriced  (so are men's designer suits, btw), so set a low budget for your dress and only shop at places that cater to those with your budget. There are even national chains in the USA that sell inexpensive and traditional pretty looking wedding dresses.

ETA: I was curious so I popped over to the David's Bridal site, right now they are selling 166 different wedding dresses, all priced at or under $250; they sell 40 designs that are under $100.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:07:31 AM by rdaneel0 »

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2018, 10:00:54 AM »
I've read most of the comments and pretty generally agree. On the topic of sizes, I screamingly agree. I sold Men's Clothing at Nordstrom for a decade. OMG, the inequalities and inconsistencies are vast and real.
 
The same shirt costs a different price to launder depending on the gender of the person it is believed to belong to.

But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

It cost my husband more to rent his vest than my entire outfit, including jewelry. It helped that in the end the only earrings I could find on the right color came from Claire's.

Chris22

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2018, 10:23:28 AM »
I've read most of the comments and pretty generally agree. On the topic of sizes, I screamingly agree. I sold Men's Clothing at Nordstrom for a decade. OMG, the inequalities and inconsistencies are vast and real.
 
The same shirt costs a different price to launder depending on the gender of the person it is believed to belong to.

But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

It cost my husband more to rent his vest than my entire outfit, including jewelry. It helped that in the end the only earrings I could find on the right color came from Claire's.

My tux was free. Most national chains will give the groom (and father of the bride) a free rental in return for the rest of the wedding partyís business.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2018, 01:14:23 PM »
I've read most of the comments and pretty generally agree. On the topic of sizes, I screamingly agree. I sold Men's Clothing at Nordstrom for a decade. OMG, the inequalities and inconsistencies are vast and real.
 
The same shirt costs a different price to launder depending on the gender of the person it is believed to belong to.

But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.
 
I think generally it will also be more expensive for mother's of the bride/groom than fathers. And bridesmaids versus ushers.  Oh joy (future mother of the bride).
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 01:16:43 PM by RetiredAt63 »

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2018, 01:22:32 PM »
I've read most of the comments and pretty generally agree. On the topic of sizes, I screamingly agree. I sold Men's Clothing at Nordstrom for a decade. OMG, the inequalities and inconsistencies are vast and real.
 
The same shirt costs a different price to launder depending on the gender of the person it is believed to belong to.

But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

It cost my husband more to rent his vest than my entire outfit, including jewelry. It helped that in the end the only earrings I could find on the right color came from Claire's.

My tux was free. Most national chains will give the groom (and father of the bride) a free rental in return for the rest of the wedding partyís business.

We didn't have a wedding party. We only invited people whose names were on our birth certificates.

SwordGuy

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2018, 01:31:08 PM »
But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

This one is 1000% self inflicted. Itís possible to buy a $20 white dress, and a $5000 designer tuxedo.  The fact that almost no one does those two things tells you all you need to know.

This is literally a case of "You get what you pay for."   If you choose to buy a $5000 dress, that's what you get.  If you choose a thrift store dress, that's what you get.

Here's proof a bride can look stunning in a thrift store dress.   Total cost for our wedding in 1983 was $50, that included cost of the dress, so it was probably in the $5 to $10 range.


MrsWhipple

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2018, 05:11:09 PM »
This too. If I leave off the under-eye concealer and mascara, I get questions about my health. If I use them and nothing else, people tend to assume I'm not wearing makeup.

brooklynmoney

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2018, 06:16:40 PM »
are: people being told they look sick without makeup I will just leave this gem from Amy Scumer here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=63s&v=fyeTJVU4wVo


lhamo

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2018, 06:58:16 PM »
Every time I read about the pressure many women feel to spend oodles on their appearance I am so glad that I grew up in (and returned to) the hippie granola Pacific Northwest, and spent my career years in grad school and non-profits.  It let me get away with no makeup, no fancy hair stuff, no shaving (DH prefers), and a mostly casual wardrobe.  Also much less stress overall. 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2018, 07:49:22 PM »
Every time I read about the pressure many women feel to spend oodles on their appearance I am so glad that I grew up in (and returned to) the hippie granola Pacific Northwest, and spent my career years in grad school and non-profits.  It let me get away with no makeup, no fancy hair stuff, no shaving (DH prefers), and a mostly casual wardrobe.  Also much less stress overall.

Amen to that. Visiting the east coast was a nightmare for me. I literally had a stranger in a grocery store ask me why I was wearing tennis shoes. Um... to have shoes on? And my friend who had moved there described me as "brave" for not wearing makeup. I'll stick to my crunchy granola hippy paradise filled with rain, TYVM. (Not that there's no pressure here, obviously, but it's easier to buck the more expensive trends of hair/makeup/botox)

Dicey

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2018, 08:44:50 PM »
are: people being told they look sick without makeup I will just leave this gem from Amy Schumer here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=63s&v=fyeTJVU4wVo
OMG, I almost peed my pants!

Dicey

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2018, 08:56:28 PM »
But the best example of all is the wedding day. It costs a metric fuck-ton more money to be the person in the the bride costume than the one in the groom costume.

- Snip -
ETA: I was curious so I popped over to the David's Bridal site, right now they are selling 166 different wedding dresses, all priced at or under $250; they sell 40 designs that are under $100.
Then after the dress, there's:
Shoes
Undergarments
Hosiery
Veil
Hair
Makeup
Mani/pedi
Bouquet
Something old, something new, etc, etc, etc.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I'm no expert. DH and I eloped. We wore clothes we already owned. There was no one from our birth certificates there, but a couple of my younger siblings were, even though they only got a couple hours notice. It was perfect.

P.S. I see the quotes are a little wonky, but I think it's readable as it is.




Hirondelle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2018, 12:31:32 AM »
Every time I read about the pressure many women feel to spend oodles on their appearance I am so glad that I grew up in (and returned to) the hippie granola Pacific Northwest, and spent my career years in grad school and non-profits.  It let me get away with no makeup, no fancy hair stuff, no shaving (DH prefers), and a mostly casual wardrobe.  Also much less stress overall.

Amen to that. Visiting the east coast was a nightmare for me. I literally had a stranger in a grocery store ask me why I was wearing tennis shoes. Um... to have shoes on? And my friend who had moved there described me as "brave" for not wearing makeup. I'll stick to my crunchy granola hippy paradise filled with rain, TYVM. (Not that there's no pressure here, obviously, but it's easier to buck the more expensive trends of hair/makeup/botox)

Really? When living on the east coast (Boston) I was surprised how everyone seemed to go to work in their running shoes. Like not sneakers, but actual running shoes. I didn't mind, it totally fits my style and I happily picked up the habit, but that's not a normal thing in Europe :p

Also leggings everywhere. People that were certainly not going to the gym looked like they were on their way to the gym continuously..

Imma

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2018, 01:58:16 AM »
As a woman in my early 30s, I'm really starting to notice the expectations that women not age.  Botox, fillers, chemical peels, and facials are everywhere. Hair gets dyed as soon as greys start showing up.

I wear blue jeans and sneakers to work and hardly ever wear makeup, but I'm still planning to make a Botox appointment after I get back from vacation next week. I never realized until I started talking about it how many of my friends were already doing these things.

I'm early 30s too (urban HCOL area) and I'm curious how you feel/see/experience this expectation of not aging. I do think a lot of women freak out in their 30s but I don't really understand it and if my friends are doing these types of treatments they aren't talking about it. I'm not opposed to treatments necessarily, I just find it interesting you're already seeing it at our age. With the exception of people who get really out of shape I don't think 31 looks that drastically different than, say 26.

I guess what I want to know, because I do hear a lot of women talk about this type of pressure and it's not something I feel externally at all, is how the pressure is applied and what would happen if you didn't conform. Like do you think this would affect your work or personal relationships? I want to look a certain way and I'm willing to do DIY beauty treatments and work out daily to achieve my look, but I don't feel like there would be social backlash if I suddenly gained 10 pounds or had wrinkles around my eyes, etc.


I'm not in a super urban environment (In a city, but hardly New York or London)  and most of my friends are fairly alternative. Still, over the last couple of years one after the other is having cosmetic treatments.

Recently, at 32-year old friend, who looks about a decade younger than her calendar age, was talking constantly about wanting to do Botox because she had such massive wrinkles and looked so old. She's a close friend and I can be quite blunt, so I asked her if I looked old to her. I'm 4 years younger and objectively my skin looks much older than hers. She was quite surprised and told me that her goal was to have smooth skin like me. We had a close look at our faces, then concluded it was all in her head.

A few overweight friends have also lost a bit of weight recently. Of course, I'm really happy that they chose to have a healthy diet and a healthy weight, but one after the other is considering, or undergoing, surgery as a 'reward'. In some cases I understand, some of them are left with a large amount of sagging skin, but others have this ideal of a skinny teenager they've wanted to be since they were kids, and don't want to let go of that ideal even though they're now healthy adult women.  They want stick thin arms and legs that an adult woman is not going to be able to get in a healthy way. I've heard several talk about perceived bingo wings and how you can get surgery to get rid of them, but no one has gone through with it yet. A few had tummy tucks and breast lifts and so far no one is 100% happy with the results.

I'm not naturally insecure and I feel totally comfortable in my own skin, but I can absolutely imagine that body insecurities can rub off on some and cosmetic procedures offer a quick fix. I think most of them should see a psychologist rather than a surgeon.

Polaria

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2018, 02:33:47 AM »
A few overweight friends have also lost a bit of weight recently. Of course, I'm really happy that they chose to have a healthy diet and a healthy weight, but one after the other is considering, or undergoing, surgery as a 'reward'. In some cases I understand, some of them are left with a large amount of sagging skin [...]
A few had tummy tucks and breast lifts and so far no one is 100% happy with the results.

In Belgium such operations after massive weight loss are considered reconstructive surgery and partly covered by the Belgian health system. I have lost a lot of weight myself, and 10 years ago I underwent a series of operations to remove sagging skin from stomach and limbs, and get fake boobs (that part wasn't considered reconstructive but it was lumped with the arm operation). I lost three kilos of skin from the tummy tuck.

I am utterly delighted with the results to this day.

Imma

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2018, 03:04:14 AM »
A few overweight friends have also lost a bit of weight recently. Of course, I'm really happy that they chose to have a healthy diet and a healthy weight, but one after the other is considering, or undergoing, surgery as a 'reward'. In some cases I understand, some of them are left with a large amount of sagging skin [...]
A few had tummy tucks and breast lifts and so far no one is 100% happy with the results.

In Belgium such operations after massive weight loss are considered reconstructive surgery and partly covered by the Belgian health system. I have lost a lot of weight myself, and 10 years ago I underwent a series of operations to remove sagging skin from stomach and limbs, and get fake boobs (that part wasn't considered reconstructive but it was lumped with the arm operation). I lost three kilos of skin from the tummy tuck.

I am utterly delighted with the results to this day.

Good to hear you're happy with the results! And well done for losing all that weight.

In NL these kind of operations are sometimes also covered by health insurances, but only in case of medical necessity. With none of these friends there was a medical necessity according to doctors, so they paid out of pocket. Most of them had surgery done in other countries so it was quite a hassle when they developed complications.

It's difficult to draw a firm line. On one hand, in cases like you where you had 3 kgs of extra skin, of course there's a real medical necessity and I believe this should be totally covered by health insurance, but it's a major operation that people should think about carefully before undergoing it (if this is covered by the health system I'm sure you went through all the hoops and were well aware of the pros and cons).  If you're like some of my friends, and have gained and lost weight a few times and went through a couple of pregnancies, and your stomach doesn't look like a 20-year old fitgirl on Instagram anymore, but you don't have kilos of sagging skin, I think you're probably better off seeing a counsellor than a surgeon in Eastern Europe. The aging process is going to continue and it's much better in the long term to just accept it rather than fight it.

Polaria

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2018, 05:25:50 AM »
A few overweight friends have also lost a bit of weight recently. Of course, I'm really happy that they chose to have a healthy diet and a healthy weight, but one after the other is considering, or undergoing, surgery as a 'reward'. In some cases I understand, some of them are left with a large amount of sagging skin [...]
A few had tummy tucks and breast lifts and so far no one is 100% happy with the results.

In Belgium such operations after massive weight loss are considered reconstructive surgery and partly covered by the Belgian health system. I have lost a lot of weight myself, and 10 years ago I underwent a series of operations to remove sagging skin from stomach and limbs, and get fake boobs (that part wasn't considered reconstructive but it was lumped with the arm operation). I lost three kilos of skin from the tummy tuck.

I am utterly delighted with the results to this day.

Good to hear you're happy with the results! And well done for losing all that weight.

In NL these kind of operations are sometimes also covered by health insurances, but only in case of medical necessity. With none of these friends there was a medical necessity according to doctors, so they paid out of pocket. Most of them had surgery done in other countries so it was quite a hassle when they developed complications.

It's difficult to draw a firm line. On one hand, in cases like you where you had 3 kgs of extra skin, of course there's a real medical necessity and I believe this should be totally covered by health insurance, but it's a major operation that people should think about carefully before undergoing it (if this is covered by the health system I'm sure you went through all the hoops and were well aware of the pros and cons).  If you're like some of my friends, and have gained and lost weight a few times and went through a couple of pregnancies, and your stomach doesn't look like a 20-year old fitgirl on Instagram anymore, but you don't have kilos of sagging skin, I think you're probably better off seeing a counsellor than a surgeon in Eastern Europe. The aging process is going to continue and it's much better in the long term to just accept it rather than fight it.

Thank you :D. It went so well actually that one of my relatives in the same situation as me did a couple of operations with the same surgeon a few months later. Also totally delighted.

I have been extremely lucky to have had a tummy tuck specialist in the plastic and reconstructive surgery department of my usual hospital in Brussels. Such a great surgeon.

Turns out the main risk factor for such operations is smoking because it decreases the oxygenation of tissues, apart from that they are not as major as they look. They can be lengthy though as the surgeon must be very careful about scars (it's cosmetic so by definition it is entirely about the looks). I was on the table for 6 hours for the tummy tuck.

I have not gained the weight back (I had already kept the weight off for 3 or 4 years prior to the ops), and I never intended to have children. I assume those are the reasons why the results have held on so well.

I was morbidly obese from 8-year-old to 20-year-old so you can imagine how fucking happy I am now with my normal weight and the sagging skin off. The statistics indicate it's nothing short of a miracle. I have average looks now, and it is all I ever wanted when I was younger.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 05:27:56 AM by Polaria »

gaja

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2018, 06:38:59 AM »
Every time I read about the pressure many women feel to spend oodles on their appearance I am so glad that I grew up in (and returned to) the hippie granola Pacific Northwest, and spent my career years in grad school and non-profits.  It let me get away with no makeup, no fancy hair stuff, no shaving (DH prefers), and a mostly casual wardrobe.  Also much less stress overall.

Amen to that. Visiting the east coast was a nightmare for me. I literally had a stranger in a grocery store ask me why I was wearing tennis shoes. Um... to have shoes on? And my friend who had moved there described me as "brave" for not wearing makeup. I'll stick to my crunchy granola hippy paradise filled with rain, TYVM. (Not that there's no pressure here, obviously, but it's easier to buck the more expensive trends of hair/makeup/botox)

Really? When living on the east coast (Boston) I was surprised how everyone seemed to go to work in their running shoes. Like not sneakers, but actual running shoes. I didn't mind, it totally fits my style and I happily picked up the habit, but that's not a normal thing in my part of Europe :p

Also leggings everywhere. People that were certainly not going to the gym looked like they were on their way to the gym continuously..

FTFY

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/4195036/What-not-to-wear-in-winter.html


freya

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2018, 09:18:03 AM »
Women in their early 30s getting Botox and cosmetic surgery to improve on natural appearance??   Really?  I don't suppose there's ever any consideration of the risks of such procedures, like nerve injuries, anesthesia accidents, and infection?   It just feels wrong that in order to fit society's expectations for being a woman, you not only have to incur added expenses but also painful procedures with real medical risks.  I guess we shouldn't be so quick to judge other societies that practice female mutilation, like foot binding, lip/ear stretching, and genital surgeries.

I thought that we were finally heading in the right direction with the demise of stockings, the advent of flats rather than heels to pair with skirts, and generally more comfortable women's shoes so it's no longer necessary to put up with blood blisters and screwed up knees and backs from high heels (how well I remember those days).   I guess we still have a ways to go, but I'm still thankful for the progress that's been made.

To the poster who reported that work shoe requirement nightmare:  it may be worth trying to educate management on the medical risks of wearing heels, so they'll at least give you the option of wearing just one pair of flats with both pants & skirts.  If they cover your health insurance costs that may actually be the wedge you need.

madgeylou

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2018, 09:37:57 AM »
I'm not in a super urban environment (In a city, but hardly New York or London)  and most of my friends are fairly alternative. Still, over the last couple of years one after the other is having cosmetic treatments.

I used to be part of a feminist message board that has now migrated to Facebook, and recently there was a thread in which so many women wrote gleefully about how they have had cosmetic surgery, or are looking forward to getting some. Of course, people get to do what they want with their own bodies, but I have to admit, it really bummed me out. If even powerful badass feminists feel the need or desire to cut into their perfectly healthy flesh to look a certain way, then it becomes clear that we have a long, long way to go to getting over our culture's obsession with the way women look, and recentering our value as human beings in who we are and what we do instead.

As for me, it's fun to play with my look, though I don't feel the need to wear makeup every day. It's more a fun-times optional thing for me. I have for sure spent too much in my life on the momentary mood boost of buying a new lipstick or blouse or pair of shoes ... but that feels different to me from voluntarily undergoing surgery without some underlying medical need. I'm 45 and fat and also pretty cute, I think, and this whole obsession with looking younger is something that I personally feel the need to resist as a political statement and also to normalize the idea that yeah, this is what a 45-year-old woman looks like!

(Side note: there is no such thing as a "healthy weight." Unhealthy skinny people and healthy fat people abound in this world!)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 09:39:48 AM by madgeylou »

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2018, 10:28:57 AM »
You ladies are making me very grateful for my circle of friends! I can definitely see how insecurities would grow if women I was close to were picking apart their own appearances and doing cosmetic surgery. I'm wondering if some of this is an earning level thing? Like, maybe me and my peers just don't have high enough incomes to do this stuff, so no one does it, so then no one needs to do it? Now that I think of it we don't really talk about appearance much at all beyond "i got a new conditioner" small talk.

I think if you stay super fit and take care of your skin, teeth, and hair then you'll already be more attractive than most of the population, at any age. I'll happily put my time and energy into that stuff but it's hard to imagine a scenario where I'd shell out thousands on treatments to look like I've lived fewer years than I've lived. As long as the husband still wants to hit it, I'm good, hahaha.

I also love reading about the style differences by region. Whenever I go to the PNW I feel insanely overdressed. That place has got to be the denim and fleece capital of the world. I def got some "looks" when I went hiking while wearing makeup. Apparently that's a super weird thing to do. *shrug*
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 10:32:22 AM by rdaneel0 »

pachnik

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2018, 11:45:05 AM »
I think earning level has something to do with cosmetic surgery of course.   In my friend circle, lots of women dye their hair but haven't gone in for any plastic surgery.  I definitely don't have the income to support stuff like that.  Not to mention that botox and fillers need to be redone a few times a year, IIRC. 

I guess I've got to be grateful that i am also in the PNW.   

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2018, 11:47:51 AM »
I have a colleague who gets chemical burns (facials? I forget what they are called) every few months. She walks around for two weeks looking like she has a bad, painful sunburn in an attempt to look better for a few months. As I understand it, she doesn't even have them done locally, so there are travel expenses, as well.

o2bfree

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2018, 01:30:11 PM »
I saw a documentary about Korean men wearing makeup to make their skin look flawless, and one of the guys they interviewed talked about how it builds his confidence, how he likes to look like a man who could handle any situation. My first thought was, "What about the situation where you have no makeup?"

The appearance = confidence = attractiveness thing baffles me in this day and age. It's just seems so primitive. It's understandable that someone with healthy skin, symmetrical features, good muscle tone, and large sexual organs would be confident and attractive from the standpoint of reproduction, but there's more to consider wrt a good mate, and society should be advancing along that line of reasoning. But no, we're moving in the opposite direction, the direction of insecurity and greed.

Which one takes more self-confidence, waltzing into a room looking good because of the layers you've put on, or waltzing in with no layers, perfectly at ease and in control? If it's sex we're concerned with, that bare type of confidence seems more appealing to me, and it seems superior in other areas as well, such as intelligence and insightfulness.

Malkynn

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2018, 04:41:48 PM »
I saw a documentary about Korean men wearing makeup to make their skin look flawless, and one of the guys they interviewed talked about how it builds his confidence, how he likes to look like a man who could handle any situation. My first thought was, "What about the situation where you have no makeup?"

The appearance = confidence = attractiveness thing baffles me in this day and age. It's just seems so primitive. It's understandable that someone with healthy skin, symmetrical features, good muscle tone, and large sexual organs would be confident and attractive from the standpoint of reproduction, but there's more to consider wrt a good mate, and society should be advancing along that line of reasoning. But no, we're moving in the opposite direction, the direction of insecurity and greed.

Which one takes more self-confidence, waltzing into a room looking good because of the layers you've put on, or waltzing in with no layers, perfectly at ease and in control? If it's sex we're concerned with, that bare type of confidence seems more appealing to me, and it seems superior in other areas as well, such as intelligence and insightfulness.

Thatís cool that thatís your preference, but I can tell you from experience that that isnít most peopleís preference.

Most people respond much better to the makeup layers, the heels, the long shiny hair, etc, etc.

I am 100% comfortable in my own skin, walking in to almost any environment with no makeup, no frills clothes, and a pair of running shoes, but I would be absolutely lying if I didnít say that I get infinitely more and better attention when I scrub up, spackle on the war paint, and cram my toes into torture shoes. Itís not even a small difference in how people react. The social pressure is very real.

I donít hold it against anyone that they conform to expectations, not everyone enjoys consequences of rebellion.

ixtap

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2018, 05:05:00 PM »
I saw a documentary about Korean men wearing makeup to make their skin look flawless, and one of the guys they interviewed talked about how it builds his confidence, how he likes to look like a man who could handle any situation. My first thought was, "What about the situation where you have no makeup?"

The appearance = confidence = attractiveness thing baffles me in this day and age. It's just seems so primitive. It's understandable that someone with healthy skin, symmetrical features, good muscle tone, and large sexual organs would be confident and attractive from the standpoint of reproduction, but there's more to consider wrt a good mate, and society should be advancing along that line of reasoning. But no, we're moving in the opposite direction, the direction of insecurity and greed.

Which one takes more self-confidence, waltzing into a room looking good because of the layers you've put on, or waltzing in with no layers, perfectly at ease and in control? If it's sex we're concerned with, that bare type of confidence seems more appealing to me, and it seems superior in other areas as well, such as intelligence and insightfulness.

Thatís cool that thatís your preference, but I can tell you from experience that that isnít most peopleís preference.

Most people respond much better to the makeup layers, the heels, the long shiny hair, etc, etc.

I am 100% comfortable in my own skin, walking in to almost any environment with no makeup, no frills clothes, and a pair of running shoes, but I would be absolutely lying if I didnít say that I get infinitely more and better attention when I scrub up, spackle on the war paint, and cram my toes into torture shoes. Itís not even a small difference in how people react. The social pressure is very real.

I donít hold it against anyone that they conform to expectations, not everyone enjoys consequences of rebellion.

I concur. Although I have made a choice, I cannot deny that it has had an effect on my career.

And someone who has out make up on everyday for a couple of decades is going to feel naked without, rather than fake with it. Remember when phones started replacing watches? How long did it take you to stop looking at your wrist?

Missy B

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2018, 05:43:04 PM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm?
I'm stealing this. So you know.
[/quote]
It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.[/quote]

These are all for the same job? Different jobs? (cannot picture work that requires both steel toed and pumps...)