Author Topic: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?  (Read 10941 times)

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« on: June 06, 2018, 04:25:51 PM »
Picked this tidbit out of an article about women and their appearance:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/opinions/what-miss-american-still-cant-do-alaimo/index.html

"A 2017 Groupon study found that, over the course of a woman's lifetime, she'll spend over a quarter of a million dollars more than a man on her appearance — spurred on by a vast fashion and beauty industry whose stock in trade is the canard that a woman's worth is tied directly to how good she can make herself look."

Holy crap, can that be right, $250,000 more than a guy?

Imma

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
  • Location: Europe
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 04:48:25 PM »
That's about $3000 more than a man, annually, or 250/month. I don't think that's unbelievable at all.

Many women buy lots of clothes and shoes. Of course on this forum we only own two thrift shop outfits per person, but I know many women who own 10-15 pairs of €100-€200 shoes and buy new clothes every month. It's not uncommon for women to spend €80 on a professional haircut/dye job. Add makeup, lingerie and expensive jewerly to that and 250/month sounds quite right.

I think there are several factors:
- Many women like shopping and fashion.
- There's an expectation in society for women to wear a bigger variety in clothing styles. A man can own a suit and a pair of khaki pants and a polo shirt and he's covered for 90% of the occasions. Maybe people will think he's a bit boring but there generally won't be any negative consequences. For women, there's much more pressure to look a certain way and if you don't, you will experience some negative backlash.
- Women's items are more expensive than men's items, even when the item is similar.

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 05:00:12 PM »
- There's an expectation in society for women to wear a bigger variety in clothing styles. A man can own a suit and a pair of khaki pants and a polo shirt and he's covered for 90% of the occasions. Maybe people will think he's a bit boring but there generally won't be any negative consequences. For women, there's much more pressure to look a certain way and if you don't, you will experience some negative backlash.

This one really gets me. I remember my dad giving me hell when I was young for wearing the same two or three tops all the time. I saw nothing wrong, I liked those tops and they looked good on me.

diapasoun

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 962
  • Location: California
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 05:12:32 PM »
A full breakdown of costs would have to include:

-skin care, including spa appointments (e.g. facials)
-hair care, including salon appointments
-makeup
-nails, including nail appointments
-supplements taken for appearance (e.g. vitamin E, protein powders, etc)
-clothing, shoes, and accessories
-plastic surgeries
-weight loss/exercise programs/gym memberships undertaken for appearance

When you break that down to $250/month more like Imma did... yep. I can't imagine spending $3k a year on my appearance, but I know women who do, easy.

galliver

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 05:36:11 PM »
That's about $3000 more than a man, annually, or 250/month. I don't think that's unbelievable at all.

Many women buy lots of clothes and shoes. Of course on this forum we only own two thrift shop outfits per person, but I know many women who own 10-15 pairs of €100-€200 shoes and buy new clothes every month. It's not uncommon for women to spend €80 on a professional haircut/dye job. Add makeup, lingerie and expensive jewerly to that and 250/month sounds quite right.

I think there are several factors:
- Many women like shopping and fashion.
- There's an expectation in society for women to wear a bigger variety in clothing styles. A man can own a suit and a pair of khaki pants and a polo shirt and he's covered for 90% of the occasions. Maybe people will think he's a bit boring but there generally won't be any negative consequences. For women, there's much more pressure to look a certain way and if you don't, you will experience some negative backlash.

Truth. As far as women enjoying shopping/fashion I suspect there is a lot of social conditioning in that...but that doesn't make it any less real.

- Women's items are more expensive than men's items, even when the item is similar.

Maybe this is a US-EU difference but not always true? My bf marvels at how inexpensive women's shoes, jeans, and undies can be...however, a lot of that stuff is *flimsy*. His jeans are sturdy thick denim, mine are (usually) thin, stretchy denim. He definitely gets more wear out of his items... and also doesn't need bras which are quite $$$ and important (at least for many of us women!).

---

Another thing to think about is, what is average professional attire for men and women? While certainly there are many men in professional fields that might require more upscale dress (e.g. finance, law), they're likely balanced out in the average by men in trades, construction, and other "dirty jobs"...or uniformed jobs. Women are overrepresented in many customer-facing fields...nurses, teachers, admin/HR, counselors/social workers, hairdressers, etc. where their appearance is under much more scrutiny than manual labor work...

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 06:19:12 PM »
Another thing to think about is, what is average professional attire for men and women? While certainly there are many men in professional fields that might require more upscale dress (e.g. finance, law), they're likely balanced out in the average by men in trades, construction, and other "dirty jobs"...or uniformed jobs. Women are overrepresented in many customer-facing fields...nurses, teachers, admin/HR, counselors/social workers, hairdressers, etc. where their appearance is under much more scrutiny than manual labor work...

Most of the young professionals (SW/HW engineers) in my office wear about the same thing everyday: jeans, sneakers, and T-shirts. Some seem to get a lot of mileage out of one T-shirt. But many of the women, who don't even deal with customers, look like reality TV stars. Hair and makeup alone must cost a bundle. I guess they're always ready for great selfie!

greengardens

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 08:43:12 PM »
Don’t forget about the “pink tax” where woman’s personal care items cost more than a comparable product for men. Think shaving cream, razors, lotions,  etc... that alone won’t account for the extra $3k per year but it adds up

Travis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Location: Tempe, AZ
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 09:14:37 PM »


Maybe this is a US-EU difference but not always true? My bf marvels at how inexpensive women's shoes, jeans, and undies can be...however, a lot of that stuff is *flimsy*. His jeans are sturdy thick denim, mine are (usually) thin, stretchy denim. He definitely gets more wear out of his items... and also doesn't need bras which are quite $$$ and important (at least for many of us women!).




http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-most-baffling-things-about-womens-clothes/

When I get dressed, I look for a shirt, pants, and shoes.  I don't care how the clothes conform to the shape of my body and barely care how well they match. I own three pairs of shoes and can cut my own hair with a one-off $20 kit, or $12/month by a guy with a pair of rusty scissors and a comb if I want to splurge.

Women on the other hand are naturally and culturally hamstrung.  They come in much more varied shapes and sizes which makes finding the right size of an outfit difficult enough. Now factor in how society has insisted those clothes have to hide or accentuate your infinitely-varied outlines.  If dressing even semi-professionally, your shoes need to match the style and color scheme of your outfit, heel length is a variable, you usually can't get away with a wallet in your back pocket (assuming you have pockets) so a matching bag or purse is needed, and your hair is taken care of by somebody with a degree who charges by the hour.

I don't know if all of this equals $250k over a lifetime, but Diapasoun came up with a pretty good list if you include all other related expenses.  Hair, nails, and ensuring your outfits have the right shoes alone has to be hundreds of dollars a year.  My 90 year old grandmother still "gets her hair done" not because she's overspending on beauty, but that's just what it's called when it's more complicated than cutting off a couple inches.  At that age my hair will probably be long gone and society won't care. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 09:21:35 PM by Travis »
My Journal: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/will-i-or-won't-i-a-home-run-or-a-base-hit/

Unlike some other tech companies or skilled-labor industries, we're always hiring.

www.goarmy.com

MonkeyJenga

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7056
  • Location: Washington DC
  • Cake or Death?
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2018, 10:39:46 PM »
Once while I was waiting for a meeting to start, two coworkers walked into the room. The man asked the woman if she was okay, because she looked sick. She responded, no, I just didn't wear makeup today. That exchange both amused and infuriated me.

I have always been on the lower spending side in this area, and I've still spent thousands of dollars on my appearance. I've stopped most of the expected stuff, and it's freeing in some ways. No more makeup or jewelry, no heels, no nice haircuts or highlights, no teeth whitening, no expensive clothing, no hair removal. Y'all ever paid someone for the pleasure of having every hair in your genital region ripped out by its root? I haven't, but I've heard it's both expensive and no fun.

If I had wanted to move up the ladder in my previous companies, I might have caved to costly expectations. I could ignore them because I was planning to FIRE, and my friends largely didn't care. Even so, I'm sure I've depressed romantic interest from the general populace. I'm also lucky to have naturally acceptable hair. Quick brush and I'm good. Some women need expensive routine maintenance to look "professional."

I actually recently caved and bought a pretty, sort of useless dress from a consignment store. I now have intense dress lust. I want more. Some men may think it's silly, and they don't care about those things: that's because there is no temptation. There are basic, timeless styles for office wear and fancy outings, jeans and t-shirts for casual, and that's all you see when you shop. Unless you're deep into a fashion scene, if you're a guy, you're not constantly presented with an overwhelming array of patterns, and fits, and fabrics. Savor it, men. Savor your freedom.

Even though I spend a lot less money on clothes these days, I can still spend a lot of time on it. I look decent in maybe 1 out of 20 items I try on, and this is after years of paying close attention to which cuts and fabrics I can wear. Some expensive mistakes have been made along the way. I want basic, well-made, nice fitting clothing that doesn't show off my entire tit when I lean two inches forward. That is frustratingly hard to find.

I wonder if shopping became a female group activity because we would never have a freaking social life otherwise. If you need to spend 5 hours on the weekend just to get a fitted tee, you better drag a friend along and get some coffee halfway through. It also is useful to have someone else there to assess whether the clothing looks weird and maybe help zip you up. Dresses, why do I need to dislocate a freaking shoulder to enter you? Stop making zippers go from my ass to the nape of my neck, please.

I'm not even going to rant about high heels, because I quit that life years ago. I also didn't expect to get this worked up, and I should really go to sleep.

expatartist

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
  • Location: The Big Lychee
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 11:32:52 PM »
Once while I was waiting for a meeting to start, two coworkers walked into the room. The man asked the woman if she was okay, because she looked sick. She responded, no, I just didn't wear makeup today. That exchange both amused and infuriated me.

I have always been on the lower spending side in this area, and I've still spent thousands of dollars on my appearance. I've stopped most of the expected stuff, and it's freeing in some ways. No more makeup or jewelry, no heels, no nice haircuts or highlights, no teeth whitening, no expensive clothing, no hair removal. Y'all ever paid someone for the pleasure of having every hair in your genital region ripped out by its root? I haven't, but I've heard it's both expensive and no fun.

If I had wanted to move up the ladder in my previous companies, I might have caved to costly expectations. I could ignore them because I was planning to FIRE, and my friends largely didn't care. Even so, I'm sure I've depressed romantic interest from the general populace. I'm also lucky to have naturally acceptable hair. Quick brush and I'm good. Some women need expensive routine maintenance to look "professional."

I actually recently caved and bought a pretty, sort of useless dress from a consignment store. I now have intense dress lust. I want more. Some men may think it's silly, and they don't care about those things: that's because there is no temptation. There are basic, timeless styles for office wear and fancy outings, jeans and t-shirts for casual, and that's all you see when you shop. Unless you're deep into a fashion scene, if you're a guy, you're not constantly presented with an overwhelming array of patterns, and fits, and fabrics. Savor it, men. Savor your freedom.

Even though I spend a lot less money on clothes these days, I can still spend a lot of time on it. I look decent in maybe 1 out of 20 items I try on, and this is after years of paying close attention to which cuts and fabrics I can wear. Some expensive mistakes have been made along the way. I want basic, well-made, nice fitting clothing that doesn't show off my entire tit when I lean two inches forward. That is frustratingly hard to find.

I wonder if shopping became a female group activity because we would never have a freaking social life otherwise. If you need to spend 5 hours on the weekend just to get a fitted tee, you better drag a friend along and get some coffee halfway through. It also is useful to have someone else there to assess whether the clothing looks weird and maybe help zip you up. Dresses, why do I need to dislocate a freaking shoulder to enter you? Stop making zippers go from my ass to the nape of my neck, please.

I'm not even going to rant about high heels, because I quit that life years ago. I also didn't expect to get this worked up, and I should really go to sleep.

Nailed it with every line MJ. Some misc observations:

Women of African descent are pressured to spend significant time and $ to tame their hair, or be considered unprofessional. This starts at school https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/07/17/534448313/when-black-hair-violates-the-dress-code

I do spend a lot on bath and body products, not to look good but to feel luxurious at a fraction of spa prices. Have never paid for manicures or hair removal (aside from a trial eyebrow threading) but monthly massages are US$20-30 and form part of my healthcare budget. Gave up self-coloring my hair a few years ago and miss the dramatic look but it's healthier to go without.

Last year after a 3rd or 4th sprained ankle, I pretty much gave up heels and wedges forever. I miss them but am tall for where I live (5'6") and tower over my Cantonese neighbors in the subway if wearing heels. Now the ankles are much happier, but the change required work-appropriate footwear that wouldn't be too hot during our 8 months of summer. Local Chinese sandals look fine but are made with stinky materials, so I pick up quality leather sandals when working on projects in Europe at half the price of Asia.

Do I spend a lot on how I look? I tend to hack it by buying in quantity or secondhand or at half off. There's no separate category in my expenses list for "Shit to make me look nice" but maybe I should add one. The "Shit to make me feel/smell nice" is probably higher.

Mrs. S

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • Royally Frugal
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 01:17:39 AM »
I am pretty sure that's spot on worldwide (I can be sure about urban India) and in the first few years of my earning life I was the same. I bought shoes and clothes every weekend and am really thankful that makeup has never been something I had patience for. When we decided to travel more I gave up shoes and a lot of clothes. Last two years we have consciously reduced the number of items we own in terms of clothing and accessories. unfortunately with changing body shape and size in past 9 months I have spent a decent sum to simply be comfortable in my clothes and hope to use them for next year or so.

Clothes for women in general and jeans in particular are made of probably the shittiest and thinnest piece of fabric you can pass off as 'denim'. My husband's jeans last years while mine are in the dump in half a year. The sturdiest jeans I have found in last decade has been the maternity jeans I bought recently.

While I usually struggle to fulfill my tax free uniform allowance of  around 350$ a year I know many who far exceed the sum in a quarter.
FI in India- {Royally Frugal}

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3089
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 03:11:07 AM »


Seems relevant.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

Imma

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
  • Location: Europe
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 03:53:15 AM »


Seems relevant.

This is partially true. Many women are very critical of other women's appearances and I try to consciously not be like that. My hair is very simple (long and straight) and I don't dye my hair, and I've only ever had women nagging me to get a "real" hairstyle (something complicted and expensive so maintain).

However, don't underestimate how vicious men can be and especially in a business context (source: I work in business). It really works against you to be "dowdy" or "plain" or to look "fat" or "old" while I've met many very overweight, distinctly average or even geeky looking men over the age of 45 who are doing very well in their career. Actually, they are often the men who judge those women who aren't good looking and young enough. I'm not sure where that comes from, I'm sure many of them have wives who look exactly like the women they are rude to at work. I have certainly had comments from much older male coworkers that I shouldn't wear the same rotation of outfits every week. I remember replying to one of them that he only seemed to own three shirts as well, which he confirmed, but "I'm not a woman, men don't have to look nice".

I wear very basic clothing at home, and no jewelry or makeup. At work, I wear slightly more fancy clothes and I put on a bit of make-up, because if I don't, I have noticed I'm not taken as seriously. It's difficult enough to be taken seriously if you're a young blonde woman with a naturally soft voice, it's even worse when you're considered to be "plain" or people think you must be gay, or a feminazi (sadly, that's our perception of women who look natural) .  I have been told by people I "scrub up nicely" which is apparantly a compliment.

Malkynn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 754
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 04:53:04 AM »


Seems relevant.

This is partially true. Many women are very critical of other women's appearances and I try to consciously not be like that. My hair is very simple (long and straight) and I don't dye my hair, and I've only ever had women nagging me to get a "real" hairstyle (something complicted and expensive so maintain).

However, don't underestimate how vicious men can be and especially in a business context (source: I work in business). It really works against you to be "dowdy" or "plain" or to look "fat" or "old" while I've met many very overweight, distinctly average or even geeky looking men over the age of 45 who are doing very well in their career. Actually, they are often the men who judge those women who aren't good looking and young enough. I'm not sure where that comes from, I'm sure many of them have wives who look exactly like the women they are rude to at work. I have certainly had comments from much older male coworkers that I shouldn't wear the same rotation of outfits every week. I remember replying to one of them that he only seemed to own three shirts as well, which he confirmed, but "I'm not a woman, men don't have to look nice".

I wear very basic clothing at home, and no jewelry or makeup. At work, I wear slightly more fancy clothes and I put on a bit of make-up, because if I don't, I have noticed I'm not taken as seriously. It's difficult enough to be taken seriously if you're a young blonde woman with a naturally soft voice, it's even worse when you're considered to be "plain" or people think you must be gay, or a feminazi (sadly, that's our perception of women who look natural) .  I have been told by people I "scrub up nicely" which is apparantly a compliment.

This is very true.

The *only* patients who comment on my clothes are men, and they do it often.
I wear a black lab coat over all black clothes instead of a white coat, and middle aged men are always commenting on how it looks too harsh, how I’m too young to look so serious, how I would look so much nicer wearing some colour, how red heads look best in green, etc, etc.

When I cut my long blond hair to very short and dark brown, my male patients had A LOT OF FUCKING OPINIONS about it.
Male patient: “I liked the long blond better”
Me: “well, thankfully I don’t base my personal care decisions on what my male patients find attractive”
Male patient: “oh, sorry, I didn’t know you were gay”
Me: *facepalm* “nope, not gay, just not interested in what my male patients find attractive”

I lost over 70lbs, and my male patients also had a lot of opinions about when I should stop losing weight, and at what weight I looked my best. They had no problem that they preferred me with a bit more curve and that I’ve gotten too thin for their particular taste.

Women mostly just ask me who my colourist is because red is a challenging hair dye shade and mine always looks vibrant.

freya

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 158
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 06:45:29 AM »
Wow Malkynn, I'm sorry you have to put up with that.  When I get comments like that I just smile and change the subject.   Those male patients should get the message that they need to keep their opinions to themselves.

I've had my moments of splurging in the past, and I can easily see women spending $250/month.  One of the nicest things about being over 50 is that you can get away with a lot more.  I've greatly simplified everything from wardrobe to shoes to hair care & makeup - but it takes a lot of inventiveness and willingness to go against the grain.  Most women of course won't do this.

For example, I've wanted to grow my hair longer for years, to simplify the hair routine in the mornings, but every time I walked into a salon I'd either be pressed into a short hairstyle or they'd just cut it short despite my requests to keep it longer.  I hated how I'd come out looking like a 12 year old boy.  Finally I quit going to salons and learned how to cut my own hair.  I've been letting it grow for a couple of years now, and I absolutely love how it looks now.  And all I have to do in the mornings is brush, tie back or clip if I want, and go.

Another example:  I HATE how women's clothes never have pockets.  You need pockets in real life!  I don't want to have to carry a bag every time I walk down the hall and want to take my cell phone with me.  So I learned how to make pockets and sew them into seams on pants and skirts.  Since my cell phone now doubles as my wallet (by adding a silicone sleeve on the back), I no longer need to deal with a carrying a purse to work at all.

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 07:13:17 AM »
Don’t forget about the “pink tax” where woman’s personal care items cost more than a comparable product for men. Think shaving cream, razors, lotions,  etc... that alone won’t account for the extra $3k per year but it adds up

Right! The antiperspirant I buy is about $3 in the women's section, which doesn't have an unscented version. The same stuff in the men's section, unscented and slightly larger, is about $2.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 10:23:40 AM by o2bfree »

PoutineLover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 736
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 07:35:21 AM »
I can definitely see where that number comes from, even if I don't personally spend that kind of money. I don't wear makeup or heels, don't get manicures or pedicures, don't dye my hair (I did for about 2 years, what a hassle) and I only get my hair cut every 6 months ish, by students. Brand name clothes and bags cost a lot, and change every season, but I focus on getting practical, long lasting items, and carry a backpack most of the time. But women's products do cost more in general, even when it makes no sense, like unscented deodorant and razors, what's the difference? Shaving or waxing regularly can cost a lot, and women do get judged or at least noticed when they don't shave their legs or armpits. Luckily, I don't give a fuck. It's almost socially unacceptable for women in their thirties to rock grey hair, but I plan on doing it anyway, since I'm already getting a few grey hairs.
I've read the studies about women getting taken less seriously or getting fewer job offers if they don't wear make up or look "put together" so maybe I am paying a price for not doing the normal woman stuff, but society's expectations for women are unreasonable, time consuming and expensive. The more people opt out, the easier it'll be for all of us. Unfortunately most of my friends think I'm crazy and will go on spending a lot to maintain their appearance. I'm clean and presentable, I don't need to be dolled up and glamourous.
My Journal: It's all gravy
Tangerine Referral Code (we each get $50!): 49886083S1


DS

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 216
  • Age: 116
  • Location: Universe
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2018, 07:36:04 AM »


Seems relevant.

Tying sexuality to clothing needs to end.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2883
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2018, 09:57:42 AM »
It all seems nuts to me. Last year as a couple we spent a combined total of $517 on personal care, which for us includes toiletries, haircuts, massage, and laundry. We spent an additional $249 on clothing, which seemed like plenty.
Blogging about frugality, travel, and Vancouver life - www.incomingassets.wordpress.com

I also have a journal! http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/the-zikoris-diaries/

pachnik

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2018, 12:31:14 PM »
A $250/month expense is serious money.  That money could be used for long-term investments instead.

I definitely spend more than my husband on appearance but certainly less than $250/month.   I do buy some Estee Lauder products - perhaps 2 things per year and usually via gift cards.  At most, three pedicures per summer and eyebrow threading every two months.  Haircuts every other month.  I just added these three items up and it comes to about $850/year.   

I buy one tube of under-eye concealer every 2 years and that's it for make up.  I have a lot of skin allergies so i'm off the hook on the whole make up thing.

I guess what has saved me in the past is that I don't like browsing/shopping without a specific need.  You won't find me shuffling around in the mall without a target.  My job doesn't require corporate clothing so I just get away with casual clothes - jeans, t-shirts, capris in warm weather.   I own 3 purses - one is a straw bag for the summer. 

Two years ago, I stopped colouring my hair and it has grown in very ashy grey at the front where my bangs are.  The back is pretty much dark brown still.  I get lots of compliments and questions about it.  People are curious whether the grey bangs are dyed grey. :0   I say "No.  It is natural".   
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:19:30 PM by pachnik »

Dabnasty

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Age: 28
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 01:10:26 PM »
Picked this tidbit out of an article about women and their appearance:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/opinions/what-miss-american-still-cant-do-alaimo/index.html

"A 2017 Groupon study found that, over the course of a woman's lifetime, she'll spend over a quarter of a million dollars more than a man on her appearance — spurred on by a vast fashion and beauty industry whose stock in trade is the canard that a woman's worth is tied directly to how good she can make herself look."

Holy crap, can that be right, $250,000 more than a guy?

It's not right, CNN misrepresented the numbers, assuming this is the same study:

https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2017/groupons-mobile-app-and-the-big-business-of-beauty/

It says women spend a lifetime total of $225,360 while men spend $175,680. By comparison women spend around $50,000 or 28% more than men. And that's based on a Groupon survey of 2,000 people. I wonder if it's truly a random sampling of the US population or did they survey their spendy customers who are more likely to be at an age where they care about their appearance.

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 01:27:27 PM »

Women on the other hand are naturally and culturally hamstrung.  They come in much more varied shapes and sizes which makes finding the right size of an outfit difficult enough. Now factor in how society has insisted those clothes have to hide or accentuate your infinitely-varied outlines.   

All made worse by the clothing industry.  A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.   Same thing with the length.   Women's sizes are not consistent.  You can wear a 10 in one brand, and a 12 in another.  Pants are often labelled short, average or tall, but there is no actual measurement associated with that, so again, more trying on required.

Men tend to have a similar body shape, and if they gain weight it is often in their stomachs.  Women can have a lot of different body shapes - pear, apple, etc.   This is where the clothing industry could help by standardizing sizes/fitting.  Whether you want to call it fruit, shapes - green triangle, blue circle, or whatever - clothes could be labelled by the body type it is meant to fit.  So if you have a large chest and large stomach, but small butt and legs - you would be "Circle" and then try on clothes labelled appropriately.  Of course this is nearly impossible to do, since the majority of clothes are designed for sizes 6 and under, which the vast majority of American women do not wear and those women overwhelming have a similar body type - basically skinny everywhere.  Then more fabric is added with little to no consideration of the larger size, until you get into the plus sizes, which for most women, you need to be obese to fit into to. 

All this adds more time and costs to purchase women's clothes.

OtherJen

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 02:09:01 PM »
Oh lord, clothing sizes. I have tops from the same brand in sizes ranging from X-small to medium. Jeans from the same brand (Levi's) marked with three different number sizes that have identical waistband circumferences. I have an X-large T-shirt that is smaller than a couple of my small T-shirts (different brands). It's absolutely ridiculous.

I hate clothes shopping.

Dabnasty

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Age: 28
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2018, 02:57:00 PM »
Oh lord, clothing sizes. I have tops from the same brand in sizes ranging from X-small to medium. Jeans from the same brand (Levi's) marked with three different number sizes that have identical waistband circumferences. I have an X-large T-shirt that is smaller than a couple of my small T-shirts (different brands). It's absolutely ridiculous.

I hate clothes shopping.

Is it a kid's size? Not making fun, I made that mistake one time and they didn't specify kids.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 02:59:17 PM by Dabnasty »

OtherJen

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2018, 03:26:48 PM »
Oh lord, clothing sizes. I have tops from the same brand in sizes ranging from X-small to medium. Jeans from the same brand (Levi's) marked with three different number sizes that have identical waistband circumferences. I have an X-large T-shirt that is smaller than a couple of my small T-shirts (different brands). It's absolutely ridiculous.

I hate clothes shopping.

Is it a kid's size? Not making fun, I made that mistake one time and they didn't specify kids.

Maybe! That's at least understandable.

Khaetra

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 455
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 05:58:56 PM »
Oh lord, clothing sizes. I have tops from the same brand in sizes ranging from X-small to medium. Jeans from the same brand (Levi's) marked with three different number sizes that have identical waistband circumferences. I have an X-large T-shirt that is smaller than a couple of my small T-shirts (different brands). It's absolutely ridiculous.

I hate clothes shopping.

It's frustrating!  I have two different pairs of Levi's, one is a 6 and one is an 8, both fit perfectly and both are the same style. 

As far as spending oodles of money on style and looks, yes it does cost more to be a woman.  We're expected to look a certain way, so we end up spending the money to do so, especially if they work in an office-type of setting.  I was never a girlie-girl so I never wore makeup, dresses, heels, etc. so I guess I can say I saved some money there.  I used to spend a good amount on my hair, though I've let it go grey and haven't colored in years, more savings.  It probably hurts my dating chances, but I'd rather be me and natural.

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2018, 07:09:56 PM »
As far as spending oodles of money on style and looks, yes it does cost more to be a woman.  We're expected to look a certain way, so we end up spending the money to do so, especially if they work in an office-type of setting.  I was never a girlie-girl so I never wore makeup, dresses, heels, etc. so I guess I can say I saved some money there.  I used to spend a good amount on my hair, though I've let it go grey and haven't colored in years, more savings.  It probably hurts my dating chances, but I'd rather be me and natural.

I always wonder what it's like for guys to see girls without makeup and styled hair for the first time. One of my boyfriends years ago told me the first time he saw his ex without makeup he thought she was sick. Apparently, most guys ignore this facet of reality...? I don't think I'd like going after someone based on their looks, knowing that quite possibly they're not that great looking, maybe even coyote-ugly.


Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2883
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2018, 07:15:18 PM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.
Blogging about frugality, travel, and Vancouver life - www.incomingassets.wordpress.com

I also have a journal! http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/the-zikoris-diaries/

SwordGuy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4017
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
    • Flipping Fayetteville
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2018, 08:08:29 PM »
Don’t forget about the “pink tax” where woman’s personal care items cost more than a comparable product for men. Think shaving cream, razors, lotions,  etc... that alone won’t account for the extra $3k per year but it adds up

That's because too many women will pay the higher prices and most men simply won't.   

pachnik

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2018, 08:43:39 PM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.

As I said upthread, i own 1 item of make-up and replace it every two years.  When I worked in an office downtown, I had a similarly sized wardrobe to yours.  Once the office manager said to me that probably I had a small wardrobe but $$$ in the bank whereas she had a large wardrobe and not much $$$.   I just shake my head at stuff like that. 

brooklynmoney

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Crooklyn
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2018, 08:49:06 PM »
Having spent the last 20 years in offices in NYC, I can tell you $250 a month would be a very conservative number for my colleagues. I only do enough to get by and that includes wearing full makeup every day and professionally cut and colored hair.

TartanTallulah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 426
  • Location: The Middle of Scenic Nowhere
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2018, 09:05:52 PM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.

Yes! If anyone is finding fault with my soap-and-water grooming routine, home haircut and simple wardrobe they're mostly not doing it to my face. I did have a giggle to myself when, after a recent hair trim, a colleague noted for barbed compliments said, "Oh! You've had your hair ... different."

I can totally believe statistics that show women spending much more than men on personal care. I have female colleagues who claim to struggle to get by on their salaries or to need a certain level of income but who seem to prioritise make-up, hair and nail titivation and what I'd describe as "pampering" and are always turning up in new clothes. These things are clearly not optional for many women.



TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1899
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
    • The Live-In Landlord
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2018, 09:22:26 PM »
Don’t forget about the “pink tax” where woman’s personal care items cost more than a comparable product for men. Think shaving cream, razors, lotions,  etc... that alone won’t account for the extra $3k per year but it adds up

That's because too many women will pay the higher prices and most men simply won't.

The sections are kept separate to deter item-by-item comparison shopping.

It's possible to take a mental shortcut and end up in the pink section, then pick something off the shelf that looks right and be blissfully unaware that the same brand has the same product a few feet away that has a higher weight or volume for the same price... or better manufacturing technique (for clothing), or better cloth or similar components, or even a lower price overall. The shelves are stacked high enough, and the sections are spaced far enough apart, that the other options aren't immediately available. Notwithstanding the rather juvenile "BUY ME BECAUSE I AM PINK" codswallop, there are enough other shenanigans that make a person want to show up at the grocery store with a fully automatic assault rifle.

In sports, the philosophy is "shrink it, pink it, and stink it": make it smaller or different-sized for women (like bicycles) without noticeably altering the proportions in a way that might be biologically useful, make it some idiotic "look-at-me, look-at-me" color (such as in women's steel-toed shoes and work shoes-- cough-- Reebok-- cough), and do something that reduces its value overall such as using cheaper components, candy-assed manufacturing, shoddy materials, or anything else to increase the planned obsolescence without reducing the purchase price.

Does this not inspire at least a minor desire to find a discarded liquor bottle, fill it with a mixture of gasoline and dish soap, stuff a rag in the neck, light the rag, and hurl the results at one of those mass marketing displays?

No Mustachian will fall for the obvious marketing bullshit, but unfortunately plenty of people of the XX persuasion get as far as the pink flowery section, decide "I'm here-- I have found the product" and so it doesn't occur to them to nose around in the XY section long enough to notice that there's a better buy available. Gendered departments ensure that the same thing happens with unisex clothing items such as T-shirts, bermuda shorts, flip-flops, socks, and the like. Don't even get me started on the hair care industry because I will be foaming at the mouth in a way that makes my service dog want to call my vet and have me taken in for a saliva test.

I've heard it described as the "pink tax" but that phrase isn't offensive enough because it doesn't capture the full irritation that I experience when I see it in action. So for the past several years I've been calling it the "cunt tax". It's not entirely accurate, since taxes are presumed to accrue to the government as opposed to private industry. Likewise, the word "cunt" has also been in the news a lot recently in Yankistan, where the use of a vulgar term for women's genitalia is deemed to be socially unacceptable although most of the people who use it as an actual perjorative are unaware of the irony of it being the only part of the woman that they value.

I wonder, at times, whether I'm as coarse and immature as some of the people weighing in on both sides of the debate, and whether it would be worth my while to make the effort to be. At times, I think: "yes, I too can aspire to this level of offensiveness." But then, I think: "do I really give a fuck? Probably not so much." Eventually, since I am a slightly lazy version of evil incarnate, my desire to kick back and do sweet bugger-all invariably triumphs over whatever passes for ambition. This is probably good for other people's insurance premiums.

All of these verbal shenanigans are probably better than my first instinctive response, which involved at least conflagration and possibly a good deflagration depending on the level of instability I'm prepared to tolerate in Ye Olde Home Lab.
I squeak softly, but carry a big schtick.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1899
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
    • The Live-In Landlord
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2018, 09:24:39 PM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.

Yes! If anyone is finding fault with my soap-and-water grooming routine, home haircut and simple wardrobe they're mostly not doing it to my face. I did have a giggle to myself when, after a recent hair trim, a colleague noted for barbed compliments said, "Oh! You've had your hair ... different."

I can totally believe statistics that show women spending much more than men on personal care. I have female colleagues who claim to struggle to get by on their salaries or to need a certain level of income but who seem to prioritise make-up, hair and nail titivation and what I'd describe as "pampering" and are always turning up in new clothes. These things are clearly not optional for many women.

Have you considered giving them a short but loud briefing on the myriad ways in which they might "fight the power"? If resistance to nail and hair stupidity reaches critical mass, the "not optional" perception can go away quickly from an employment perspective, if not from a mating perspective. Those two perspectives are orthogonal.
I squeak softly, but carry a big schtick.

kenner

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2018, 06:55:46 AM »
For me some 'pink tax' stuff is avoidable, but some...I've got a chest.  And hips.  Shopping in men's for bras is strangely uproductive, and for pants/jeans just does not work.  For jeans the best I've been able to find is go to Goodwill on some half-price day (at least once a year, because yep, women's stuff is generally made of thinner/crappier fabric), find a few pairs that fit reasonably well at waist/hips (actual 'size,' forget it, I've know I've got one pair that's labeled 4 and one that's labeled 10 in rotation now), and then hem to length and wear them until they wear out.  I'm in an industry where jeans/t-shirt is a perfectly acceptable uniform and am not interested in moving up the ladder into management where a fancier look is expected so it works, but even here the fact that I don't wear makeup is unusual.  And given some of the comments ('look sick' as mentioned upthread) when a woman who usually wears makeup doesn't, I don't think the men I work with realize how many women normally have some on.

RetiredAt63

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8397
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2018, 07:02:48 AM »
You know, some of the feminist movement's goals (way back when, think 60's, 70's) was to get us out of this trap.   I think there is a real feminist backlash in that the expectations today are just as bad as they were in the 50's, they are juts different so we haven't all realised it.  Plus women (mostly) in their 20's want to look nice, and they fall for it all.  All the fancy nail polish stuff?  All the hair stuff? And makeup? And clothes?

And then you hit your 50's and find out that those nice (i.e. stylish, pointy toes, high heels) shoes have ruined your feet and knees.  And so on.

Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.
The measure of civilization is how people treat one another.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/meetups-and-social-events/ontario's-own-camp-mustache-2017/ - MEET US THERE!

Hirondelle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 784
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2018, 07:51:50 AM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.

+1. I work in academia though, but I've gotten away with this strategy in all my other jobs too. When I was teaching I had to wear formal attire (SE-Asia) so I had 2 skirts, 3-4 shirts and one pair of shoes. A friend had a similar wardrobe and we used to share so we had a little more variety. My regular toiletries/care products include toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant and sunscreen and nothing more than that.

Tomorrow I'm going to a semi-formal party and a friend is just asking what I'm gonna wear. In our discussing she's discovered that I don't have any make-up beyond an old mascara and a lipstick, no jewelry, no decent shoes and no hair dryer. She's mind-blown.

Stuff like getting hair/nails done I've never understood and I don't think I ever will. I regularly get to hear "you're like a guy", but I'll take it with pride :)

Imma

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
  • Location: Europe
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2018, 08:14:50 AM »
You know, some of the feminist movement's goals (way back when, think 60's, 70's) was to get us out of this trap.   I think there is a real feminist backlash in that the expectations today are just as bad as they were in the 50's, they are juts different so we haven't all realised it.  Plus women (mostly) in their 20's want to look nice, and they fall for it all.  All the fancy nail polish stuff?  All the hair stuff? And makeup? And clothes?

And then you hit your 50's and find out that those nice (i.e. stylish, pointy toes, high heels) shoes have ruined your feet and knees.  And so on.

Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You are absolutely right, except the women in my generation say it's their "own free choice" and rant about us living in a "post - feminist age" where gender inequality doesn't exist.

We like to think society has changed a lot since the 50s, but I don't think it has changed that much at all. I talk about this all the time with my grandmother who was a young wife back then, and we recognize each other's stories. She feels there is much more pressure on women to look good then there used to be when she was young.

I think some of you might like to read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. Her book is related to what we're discussing here.

pachnik

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2018, 08:21:28 AM »
You know, some of the feminist movement's goals (way back when, think 60's, 70's) was to get us out of this trap.   I think there is a real feminist backlash in that the expectations today are just as bad as they were in the 50's, they are juts different so we haven't all realised it.  Plus women (mostly) in their 20's want to look nice, and they fall for it all.  All the fancy nail polish stuff?  All the hair stuff? And makeup? And clothes?

And then you hit your 50's and find out that those nice (i.e. stylish, pointy toes, high heels) shoes have ruined your feet and knees.  And so on.

Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

I knew a couple of women about 10 years older than me who had screwed up their feet from wearing heels.  Both had to have surgeries on them. 

 I wore heels in my 20's and not very high ones since I am already 5' 7".  I like to walk and have always hated having my feet hurt.  So avoided uncomfortable shoes for that reason too.

slugline

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: Houston, TX USA
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2018, 09:48:46 AM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 09:50:57 AM by slugline »

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5438
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2018, 09:55:33 AM »
For what it's worth, it seems to me like as women, we can also just skip all that stuff. I've worked in offices for years, and don't own one item of makeup. My work wardrobe right now is three shirts, two pants, one skirt, two dresses, and the majority of pieces predate my relationship (our nine year anniversary is next month). I use all the same soaps and stuff as my boyfriend as well. Nobody gives a shit.

+1. I work in academia though, but I've gotten away with this strategy in all my other jobs too. When I was teaching I had to wear formal attire (SE-Asia) so I had 2 skirts, 3-4 shirts and one pair of shoes. A friend had a similar wardrobe and we used to share so we had a little more variety. My regular toiletries/care products include toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant and sunscreen and nothing more than that.

Tomorrow I'm going to a semi-formal party and a friend is just asking what I'm gonna wear. In our discussing she's discovered that I don't have any make-up beyond an old mascara and a lipstick, no jewelry, no decent shoes and no hair dryer. She's mind-blown.

Stuff like getting hair/nails done I've never understood and I don't think I ever will. I regularly get to hear "you're like a guy", but I'll take it with pride :)

It's graduation season and party season here.  My big kid (12) grew out of his plain black pants, so hubs found him a discount suit - and with concerts, 6th grade grad, etc., he's already worn it four times, and will get one more wearing out of it before he grows out of it.

His best buddy is a neighbor across the street, a girl.  And she's awesome.  Her fancy wear for all of these functions plus her cousin's bar mitzvah?  A suit.  Black pants, white shirt, black jacket.  Same for her younger sister.

I've got to pack something nice for a graduation on our upcoming vacation.  I only own one dress and one skirt.  So I'm probably going to go with black pants and a blouse.  Unfortunately I still need to take a 3rd pair of shoes.  Usually I travel with flip flops and running shoes only.

dcheesi

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2018, 09:58:23 AM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/
Yep. Just the other day I was wearing new-ish size XX shorts which fit me perfectly; I actually had to exchange the original size XX+2 shorts because they were too loose/baggy. Ready to do some home maintenance, I then changed into an old pair of Levi's 5## jeans, also in size XX --I couldn't even button them! I had to rely on my belt keep me modest while I was working.

Sailor Sam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3551
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2018, 10:16:02 AM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/
Yep. Just the other day I was wearing new-ish size XX shorts which fit me perfectly; I actually had to exchange the original size XX+2 shorts because they were too loose/baggy. Ready to do some home maintenance, I then changed into an old pair of Levi's 5## jeans, also in size XX --I couldn't even button them! I had to rely on my belt keep me modest while I was working.

And then there are Chico's sizes:

00 = XS = 2
0 = S = 4
0.5 = S = 6
1 = M = 8
1.5 = M = 10
2 = L = 12
2.5 = L = 14
3 = XL = 16
3.5 = XL = 18
4 = XXL = 20

So size 4 is the new size 20! At least they're up front about it.

Dabnasty

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Age: 28
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2018, 10:21:54 AM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/
Yep. Just the other day I was wearing new-ish size XX shorts which fit me perfectly; I actually had to exchange the original size XX+2 shorts because they were too loose/baggy. Ready to do some home maintenance, I then changed into an old pair of Levi's 5## jeans, also in size XX --I couldn't even button them! I had to rely on my belt keep me modest while I was working.

And then there are Chico's sizes:

00 = XS = 2
0 = S = 4
0.5 = S = 6
1 = M = 8
1.5 = M = 10
2 = L = 12
2.5 = L = 14
3 = XL = 16
3.5 = XL = 18
4 = XXL = 20

So size 4 is the new size 20! At least they're up front about it.

I thought:

short = S = 8oz
tall = M = 12oz
grande = L = 16oz
vente = XL = 20oz

Wait, where am I? Yes I'll have a 2 please. Black thank you. And supersize it?

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3089
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2018, 10:30:25 AM »
Grim Squeaker, when you want to hit the barricades, let me know.  I have a lousy throwing arm but I can hand you the bottles and light the fuses.

You know what fills my personal rage bucket with napalm? It's the number of fucking stupid uniform shoes I'm required to own. Steel toed boots, black oxfords and white oxfords for the pants uniforms, black pumps and white pumps for the skirt variation of the same uniforms, black heels and white heels for the white tie uniforms. Seven. SEVEN pairs of uniform shoes, and 4 of the pairs are stupid.

The guys have 3 pairs. None of them are stupid. This idiocy leaps straight over the cunt tax and bounds into straight forward cunt highway robbery

The white ones are stupid. 

I also had to maintain various type of boots (black jungle boots, tan jungle boots, etc), many of which I never used, and I thought that was stupid as well. 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2018, 11:01:09 AM »
As far as spending oodles of money on style and looks, yes it does cost more to be a woman.  We're expected to look a certain way, so we end up spending the money to do so, especially if they work in an office-type of setting.  I was never a girlie-girl so I never wore makeup, dresses, heels, etc. so I guess I can say I saved some money there.  I used to spend a good amount on my hair, though I've let it go grey and haven't colored in years, more savings.  It probably hurts my dating chances, but I'd rather be me and natural.

I always wonder what it's like for guys to see girls without makeup and styled hair for the first time. One of my boyfriends years ago told me the first time he saw his ex without makeup he thought she was sick. Apparently, most guys ignore this facet of reality...? I don't think I'd like going after someone based on their looks, knowing that quite possibly they're not that great looking, maybe even coyote-ugly.
I wonder if women are more likely to skip their makeup when they're sick.  I've never made that comment, or noticed it, but I'm not very observant.

OtherJen

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2018, 11:10:06 AM »
A man can walk into a store a pick up a pair of pants that say the waist is 34 inches and it is 34 inches.

Sadly, this is not really the case anymore.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/

My husband has commented on that a few times. It's disappointing. I had hoped women's sizing would take a cue from men's sizing and become more standardized, not the other way around.

o2bfree

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2018, 11:15:04 AM »
I wonder if women are more likely to skip their makeup when they're sick.  I've never made that comment, or noticed it, but I'm not very observant.
Most women I know load up on the makeup when they're sick or tired, trying to hide it. Unless they're staying home of course.

OtherJen

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2018, 11:15:20 AM »
For me some 'pink tax' stuff is avoidable, but some...I've got a chest.  And hips.  Shopping in men's for bras is strangely uproductive, and for pants/jeans just does not work.

This. Sure, I could probably buy men's jeans to fit my hips. And then spend a bunch of money to have them taken in at the waist. And going braless is not an option I am willing to entertain. Jeans are always bought on sale (I haven't had much luck at local thrift stores) and worn until they're practically worn through. Bras are purchased on eBay whenever possible (I can usually find good new with/without tag options) because the ones that fit me are very expensive if purchased through standard retail outlets.

Quote
And given some of the comments ('look sick' as mentioned upthread) when a woman who usually wears makeup doesn't, I don't think the men I work with realize how many women normally have some on.

This too. If I leave off the under-eye concealer and mascara, I get questions about my health. If I use them and nothing else, people tend to assume I'm not wearing makeup.