Wah wah work from home

[jeromedawg]

lol... this is just...so much SMH

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-costs-adding-employees-suing-120031012.html

"The tech industry, including companies large and small that offer free meals, dry cleaning and other services meant to improve employees' lives, has faced strong criticism from workers after cutting such perks during the pandemic. Meta, the parent company of Facebook, got pushback from employees last month after the digital giant cut free services such as laundry and dry cleaning and made changes to the timing of its free dinner service."

I get it FB/Meta employees, I really do. When they eliminated pizza Fridays and bagel Mondays from one of my previous non-FAANG lowly IT jobs, I guess I was upset.... Oh? Not the same? lol

Anyway, I'm not quite sure when free meals and dry cleaning were ever considered "business expenses" but okayyy....


BTW: I used to work for one of the employers mentioned in the article and was WFH even before the pandemic. Initially, they *were* reimbursing for internet costs which was awesome. But as the scandals started piling up (some of you probably already know which employer it is if you've looked at the article by now), they took all that away. Again, all before the pandemic. Anyway, maybe I should hop on the train and file a lawsuit as well hahahaha.

[Chris22]

Tiffany Calderon, a treasury service associate at Wells Fargo Bank, filed a lawsuit in August, saying her bosses have failed to reimburse her and other employees for a variety of business expenses since sending them to work from home in March 2020. Those include "internet, phone, personal computer, office equipment (printers, scanners, etc.) office supplies, utility bills, and/or fair value for space used as home office," according to the lawsuit.

Her attorney, Joshua Haffner, said the expenses have cost Calderon between $100 and $200 a month.

Unless you walked or biked to work, you had commuting costs, and I guarantee you’re still ahead. My monthly Metra pass (Chicago commuter train) was $190, plus $2/day parking in the winter, plus dry cleaning, the occasional lunch out in the city, buying work clothes and shoes, blah blah blah.

Most people who work a job involving a computer already had internet access at home. We made a few small investments (printer, desks, chairs, etc) and are still way ahead when you consider commuting costs. Extra electricity? Come on. Our toilet paper usage doubled, but whatever.

[bacchi]

Tiffany Calderon, a treasury service associate at Wells Fargo Bank, filed a lawsuit in August, saying her bosses have failed to reimburse her and other employees for a variety of business expenses since sending them to work from home in March 2020. Those include "internet, phone, personal computer, office equipment (printers, scanners, etc.) office supplies, utility bills, and/or fair value for space used as home office," according to the lawsuit.

Her attorney, Joshua Haffner, said the expenses have cost Calderon between $100 and $200 a month.

Unless you walked or biked to work, you had commuting costs, and I guarantee you’re still ahead. My monthly Metra pass (Chicago commuter train) was $190, plus $2/day parking in the winter, plus dry cleaning, the occasional lunch out in the city, buying work clothes and shoes, blah blah blah.

Most people who work a job involving a computer already had internet access at home. We made a few small investments (printer, desks, chairs, etc) and are still way ahead when you consider commuting costs. Extra electricity? Come on. Our toilet paper usage doubled, but whatever.

Some companies covered the metro pass or even had company buses.

These complainers should enjoy the extra hour(s) they save by not commuting. They're begging to return to the office.

[nick663]

Lawsuits are a bit much but I do think this is a 2 way street.  Employees have benefitted from lower commuting costs and employers have benefitted from lower office costs (heating, furniture, leased square footage, etc).  Employers should be a bit more forthcoming on covering employee expenses that are directly related to the cost of working.

For example, I'm a bit frustrated with my work because they are not paying for audio headsets that they would have purchased if we were still in the office.  The one I brought home in 2020 broke and I had to purchase a new one with my own funds.

[charis]

I did have to upgrade my internet when I started working from home to twice the cost because our current set up didn't handle zoom meetings well.  Now that we are back to normal, we can't go back to our old plan because it doesn't exist any more (we were grandfathered in) so we are stuck paying the higher price.  Employers just expected their employees to have high speed internet, which is interesting.

1) Why would a WFH employee need dry cleaning? 2) The free meals that those big tech companies provided were to make employees care less that they had to work into dinner hour, right? Not because it was some sort of perk.

[PDXTabs]

For example, I'm a bit frustrated with my work because they are not paying for audio headsets that they would have purchased if we were still in the office.  The one I brought home in 2020 broke and I had to purchase a new one with my own funds.

Indeed. I'm a W-2 employee that had to pay for all of my own office furniture, printer/scanner, and monitor. It's worth it compared to driving to work but if I was 1099, or if my work had paid for them, it would have been tax deductible. But since I paid for it I paid with after tax dollars. I don't really mind because my salary is better than most, but for someone just starting out with student loans it seems a bit much. It also seems... wrong.

[OtherJen]

2) The free meals that those big tech companies provided were to make employees care less that they had to work into dinner hour, right? Not because it was some sort of perk.

Yes. The reason for providing all of those onsite services was to ensure that employees would show up early, work through dinner, and not leave to take care of errands. Not having worked for such an employer (my former employer expected 70 hours per week in a low-salaried position with no "perks" other than health and dental insurance), I don't know whether such things are included in employees' contracts as part of the hiring and benefits package.

Although I'm not sure the author of this article could have found less sympathetic employees to quote, I do think it's a problem when companies expect/require employees to use specific equipment and services when working from home but then don't help the employees acquire such equipment/services. That can be a big expense, especially for someone not used to working remotely or making a fairly low wage.

[Chris22]

At the start of the pandemic, I brought home my 2x monitors, docking station, keyboard/mouse, etc etc from my office to my home office. I bought a webcam with my company credit card. All no problem.  What is interesting now is that we’re moving to a hybrid model where in theory I’ll go in a day or two a week, but mostly continue to WFH. I have no problem going in for the occasional in-person meeting, and have done so already, but that means when not in the meeting I’m sitting in my office at my desk using just a laptop where I am much less efficient than with my dual screen setup. I don’t know if they’re interested in spending the $500-600 or whatever to buy me a second setup, or if I’ll just use it as a reason why I need to be home more often than not.

[jinga nation]

At the start of the pandemic, I brought home my 2x monitors, docking station, keyboard/mouse, etc etc from my office to my home office. I bought a webcam with my company credit card. All no problem.  What is interesting now is that we’re moving to a hybrid model where in theory I’ll go in a day or two a week, but mostly continue to WFH. I have no problem going in for the occasional in-person meeting, and have done so already, but that means when not in the meeting I’m sitting in my office at my desk using just a laptop where I am much less efficient than with my dual screen setup. I don’t know if they’re interested in spending the $500-600 or whatever to buy me a second setup, or if I’ll just use it as a reason why I need to be home more often than not.

Unsure what work/industry you're in, but if your performance is measured using metrics, or if you have frequent deadlines, you can state that being in office is inefficient to complete your work. Come to the office for the weekly/team meetings, get issues discussed, etc, then go home and get uninterrupted time to focus on tasks.

I've said this several times when my in-office presence and time was questioned:
Do you care more if my work is completed and the project's progress is per planned schedule or do you prefer my visibility in the office but progress is slow due to interruptions? If you care about the latter more than the former, then I'll start looking for another position. Email me with your decision.

[Stimpy]

So, I do feel for SOME people who legitimately have office expenses that the office should pay for.  Not talking about one time monitor, mouse, crap but monthly office supplies.   Those do add up. 

Having said that, there are ways around it.  Starting a business and getting a tax break for those expenses helps, obviously not something doable for monthly office supplies and groceries, but if you NEED a monitor etc, well.  Tax write off here we come.  And yes, there are some * on that, such as you ALSO need to use it for "work" at you new business, but I have found that is easy to make happen.  And to be honest, given current tax laws in my opinion, working from home or not, EVERYONE should have a business, but I understand that it probably a bit much for the average Joe/Jane. 

Also, to give to the point of the employees are still saving money.  Yes/No.  If even half of these people live in a place where they have to pay for laundry and some of the other more reasonable "freebies", yea it adds up.  The freebies, might (and a big might) be more or less what is saved on the commute pending various alternative options that are chosen.  Obviously ordering Chipotle every night isn't going to save you jack and I would have zero surprises if this was the case for some of these people.

A lawsuit, probably overboard, BUT there are some legit issues that companies should be aware of and given how the world works in the USA.....  A lawsuit might sometimes be the only way...  even if some of the grievances are not legit.

[therethere]

My costs have increased a bunch since WFH.

I had to buy an entire second setup chairs, desk, monitors, etc. Upgrade my internet. Buy a new router and wifi. Pay increased heating. I had to upgrade my cell phone and cell phone plan for security compliance. And I also now require 25% more space at home so if I move my rent will go up another $400-$500. I live 3 miles from the office so commuting costs saved is maybe $20 a month.

[jeromedawg]

Admittedly, I was pretty upset when they took away the reimbursement for internet considering it was something they were doing when I first started. In the context of the company being willing to pay for things like this because they are saving on renting cubicle spaces/utilities at an office location, it makes some sense but I do think companies view their [mostly] empty offices as liabilities as well, particularly if they are renting those spaces and actually did have some employees showing up still.
Employees can't really just say "well too bad, that's the company's problem now" (in terms of dealing with vacant office space) since they are part of the company lol.

But yes, I do feel that in *some* cases companies should at least partially recompense employees for increased COL due to WFH. Especially if the company had certain expectations or requirements by which someone should be WFH. If in the case of an internet speed and data upgrade, the company should *at least* pay for difference. And any purchase of new work equipment related to the job should also be at least partially compensated. It's a fine line because I could say I "need" a new work chair and desk when what I currently have would suffice perfectly (in reality, I might have wanted that setup so I could reallocate my current setup for my kids to play Minecraft on lol). But also, what happens to that equipment when/if you leave the company? Does the company have the grounds to clawback those funds that were reimbursed? Is there a certain time period? All that stuff would have to be updated/rewritten into HR policies and I imagine many companies out there either didn't want to deal with that OR didn't think of it.

Anyway, when my last place started trying to force people to RTO with a one-size-fits-all approach, and I realized they were hard-set on this and not going to backtrack on it, I decided that was the last straw and that it was time to move on - if RTO is a hill they're willing to die on, I can only imagine how much more worse things will get (and from reports, I was right - things are slowly but surely getting worse there)

[OtherJen]

My costs have increased a bunch since WFH.

I had to buy an entire second setup chairs, desk, monitors, etc. Upgrade my internet. Buy a new router and wifi. Pay increased heating. I had to upgrade my cell phone and cell phone plan for security compliance. And I also now require 25% more space at home so if I move my rent will go up another $400-$500. I live 3 miles from the office so commuting costs saved is maybe $20 a month.

Yep. Husband's small office was 2 miles from our house. Now that the company has given up the lease on the building and sent all of the employees home to work remotely, our home electricity and water bills have gone up noticeably with both of us WFH. He was able to bring home a second monitor from the office to hook up to his existing computers (which are better than what he had in the office), at least.

[mm1970]

Long ago and far away, I refused to give anyone my personal cell phone #.  If you needed me, buy me a cell phone.

COVID sent us all home.  My company reimbursed us a little bit ($200) for whatever we needed at home.  I think.  I don't even remember if I got it, really.

We also bought other things later (more monitors), another mouse.

Honestly though, the biggest expense is the water bill from being home all day.  More hand-washing.  It's cheaper than the commute though.

[jeromedawg]

Long ago and far away, I refused to give anyone my personal cell phone #.  If you needed me, buy me a cell phone.

COVID sent us all home.  My company reimbursed us a little bit ($200) for whatever we needed at home.  I think.  I don't even remember if I got it, really.

We also bought other things later (more monitors), another mouse.

Honestly though, the biggest expense is the water bill from being home all day.  More hand-washing.  It's cheaper than the commute though.

Are you saying that you 'caved' with giving out your personal cell after your company started reimbursing? I feel the same way - would never want to give out my personal cell phone. Although, one or two companies ago they made me give my personal as a "backup" promising to never call it lol... they mostly kept to their word. Otherwise, I've always opted for the company cell if the company wants me to have a device and gives me the option of BYOD and company cell. A number of coworkers prefer to BYOD since they don't want to carry around multiple devices. I don't really care since I'm not going out nor have a big need to carry the company cell with me. The one request I have made is that the cell needs to have hotspot w/ data in case I need to work elsewhere outside of the home hahaha.

[Dave1442397]

I'm saving a ton of money and time with wfh.

I bought a new 32" monitor, which was worth every penny. I save $20 a day not driving to work.

If I left the house at 5am, the 31-mile drive took around 45 minutes. Coming home was anywhere from one hour to 2.5 hours depending on traffic, accidents, morons, etc. WFH has made my life so much better that I wouldn't care if it cost me money.

[GuitarStv]

I've had some WFH expenses:
- noticeably higher electricity bills
- had to upgrade my internet service from 'super duper slow' to 'pretty slow'
- purchased headphones / mic because the laptop stuff I had both suck and impede work
- purchased a second monitor to use while working from home so that I'd have a similar setup to my work cube

Commuting costs are probably lower, but I biked to work a couple days a week so they weren't all that high for me to begin with.  I think I'm breaking even or slightly losing out . . . but would argue that it's worth is simple because of the amount of time each day that WFH saves me.

[jeromedawg]

Not having to go into a physical location soon after our first was born was *huge* for me. I actually got advance notice of termination from my employer two jobs back a few months after our son was born and that was a huge stressor for me... I ended up my taking parental leave amidst all this and ended up getting contacted by a recruiter during that time which led to the WFH job with my last employer - a week or two after my parental leave was over I gave my notice and started the WFH position (our son was about half a year old at that point). Less than a couple years later, we had our second. I've been at home the whole time and it has definitely been a blessing - I can't imagine life having to commute somewhere. Being at home and available/accessible to my wife and kids has really been invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for a thing. Stupidly, my last place began pushing the nonsensical RTO rhetoric before COVID hit and persistently kept mentioning it (in the context of delaying it) throughout all of COVID. This was one of the strategies the company was also leveraging to promote attrition/reduce headcount to make the bottom line look better. It is working because a lot of talent has left that sinking ship. Now I hear there are all these job postings (and frequently see them pop-up) that they are having trouble filling. It's no surprise - after a company openly pulls crap like this, I can't imagine most people would want to consider them as a prospective employer. Meanwhile, the CEO and exec board are just padding their golden parachutes for a quick exit...smh

Current company is so much better and seems like a much healthier environment. Hopefully I can coast here a bit...

[mm1970]

Long ago and far away, I refused to give anyone my personal cell phone #.  If you needed me, buy me a cell phone.

COVID sent us all home.  My company reimbursed us a little bit ($200) for whatever we needed at home.  I think.  I don't even remember if I got it, really.

We also bought other things later (more monitors), another mouse.

Honestly though, the biggest expense is the water bill from being home all day.  More hand-washing.  It's cheaper than the commute though.

Are you saying that you 'caved' with giving out your personal cell after your company started reimbursing? I feel the same way - would never want to give out my personal cell phone. Although, one or two companies ago they made me give my personal as a "backup" promising to never call it lol... they mostly kept to their word. Otherwise, I've always opted for the company cell if the company wants me to have a device and gives me the option of BYOD and company cell. A number of coworkers prefer to BYOD since they don't want to carry around multiple devices. I don't really care since I'm not going out nor have a big need to carry the company cell with me. The one request I have made is that the cell needs to have hotspot w/ data in case I need to work elsewhere outside of the home hahaha.

Well, when I was managing the 24/7 engineering sustaining group, I "caved" by giving them my home phone number.  I was probably 38 before I got a cell phone, and it was pre-paid, so during this time they didn't have the number.  Here's the thing: people at work, even coworkers, bosses, but ESPECIALLY the people who worked for me were VERY reluctant to call me at home.  You know, where I'm eating dinner with my husband and kid or kids.  When I vacationed, I would give them my mom's phone number.

Then again, I'm what you call a "late adopter" of tech, and I still have a hotmail account.

Eventually, I got a smart phone, and now I use it for everything.  It started with only a few people who had my number for emergencies.  Then my boss.  But now I've had maybe 8 bosses.  Still, it's extremely rare for me to get a text or a call from work.  Really only the COO or one of the VPs.  Even my current boss prefers to use google chat, or whatever it's called now.  It's almost like COVID reduced the frequency of work calls/texts.

[Chris Pascale]

I wonder if road crew unions will sue businesses, too, for lessening the workload for traffic decreases. All the overtime that could have been made.

Working has always been expensive. It's why I almost never worked far from my house. The time lost in going there is too precious, and with each mile/minute from home is a good deal of money, too.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I wonder if road crew unions will sue businesses, too, for lessening the workload for traffic decreases. All the overtime that could have been made.

Nah. They still have plenty of opportunity to put up a bunch of orange barrels and then not do anything resembling work.

[jinga nation]

I wonder if road crew unions will sue businesses, too, for lessening the workload for traffic decreases. All the overtime that could have been made.

Nah. They still have plenty of opportunity to put up a bunch of orange barrels and then not do anything resembling work.

Setting up for posing is definitely hard work. Much harder than actually doing the required work.