My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members

[Rubic]

My brother gave me the hard sell yesterday to buy silver at $25/ounce because it's likely to go to $2500/ounce very soon.

Interesting anecdote: My maternal grandfather was always gifting me silver items from
the Franklin Mint while I was growing up.  In 1979, the Hunt Brothers attempted to
corner the silver market by buying up physical silver as well as futures contracts.

I was able to sell over $900 worth of silver at $50 an ounce to a broker.  It's interesting
to note that now, over 40 years later, I can buy back that silver at a 50% discount!

And yes, I did invest those funds in the stock market. ;-)

-Rubic

[Kris]

I feel like there's a template for turning ordinary people crazy that has been unleashed over the internet, maybe to America - but that it spread beyond the target audience.

Sometimes I wonder if it's Russian agents out to disrupt democracy. Then I read that anti-vax has become a huge problem in Russia. If it was started by Russian agents, that country is suffering unexpected blowback. But maybe my sketchy musings are false in the first place.

I think I'll go, um, not look at silver prices now. Or conspiracy theories.

As I replied in another thread, Russian fomenting of social conflict is a very real and very organized thing. Also, what makes you think that Russia wouldn't want the same destabilization of their own people?

Rachel Maddow's Blowout is a really great book (even better audiobook, she narrates it hilariously), and it really paints a clear picture of how Russian trolling came about, how it's done, and why.

It really made it all make sense to me. Well that and the global oil industry too.

Good book.

I may read the book - thanks!

I was assuming that Russia's administration benefits from destabilizing other countries esp. USA because they can paint their own society as better when they can point to problems we have here. I wouldn't logically assume the administration benefits from destabilizing its own country.

ETA: Downloaded the book; off and running. Thx.

Oh no, no no no. You will enjoy learning about the rationale behind Russian trolling. It has nothing to do with making Russia look good.

Also, dictatorships absolutely benefit from keeping their populations destabilized. Stable societies don't tend to tolerate corrupt dictators for very long. The book will help you understand why this is especially important in oil producing countries, why corruption and destabilization are so critical to the global economy, and why none of these countries would really care about looking "good."

Yes, this. I am now about 3/4 of the way through the audiobook of Rachel Maddow’s Blowout, and… holy shit. I listen to it for an hour every morning on my walk, and when I come back inside, I generally have to unload on DH, because the shit I am learning is just MINDBLOWING.

[Metalcat]

Yes, this. I am now about 3/4 of the way through the audiobook of Rachel Maddow’s Blowout, and… holy shit. I listen to it for an hour every morning on my walk, and when I come back inside, I generally have to unload on DH, because the shit I am learning is just MINDBLOWING.

I know, right???

I'm always so happy when someone reads it. The last quarter is epic though, that's where it all comes together and you're like "fuuuuuuuuck...oh...okay...I get it now"

[Kris]

Yes, this. I am now about 3/4 of the way through the audiobook of Rachel Maddow’s Blowout, and… holy shit. I listen to it for an hour every morning on my walk, and when I come back inside, I generally have to unload on DH, because the shit I am learning is just MINDBLOWING.

I know, right???

I'm always so happy when someone reads it. The last quarter is epic though, that's where it all comes together and you're like "fuuuuuuuuck...oh...okay...I get it now"

Yeah, I have been assuming that given the timeline (I’m in early 2016) things are about to get fucking crazy. I am mentally steeling myself. This has been quite the fucking ride.

[clarkfan1979]

It's been one month since my brother gave me the hard sell to buy silver. I politely declined and told him that I am sticking with real estate and the S & P 500. Well, it's now 30 days later and silver is -13%. The S & P 500 is +1%.

I ended up getting his name for Christmas exchange. I asked his wife what my brother wants for Christmas. Drum roll please..... He wants silver for Christmas.

I am now in the process of buying silver for my brother for Christmas. Maybe this is my punishment for being on the naughty list this year? 

 

[solon]

Well at least you're buying it at a discount.

[BicycleB]

It's been one month since my brother gave me the hard sell to buy silver. I politely declined and told him that I am sticking with real estate and the S & P 500. Well, it's now 30 days later and silver is -13%. The S & P 500 is +1%.

I ended up getting his name for Christmas exchange. I asked his wife what my brother wants for Christmas. Drum roll please..... He wants silver for Christmas.

I am now in the process of buying silver for my brother for Christmas. Maybe this is my punishment for being on the naughty list this year?

I feel you are giving a very thoughtful gift. I approve!!

[chrisgermany]

How about some nice silver spoons and forks?

[AlanStache]

According to the song the wise men gave little J silver for his first birthday...  so I guess you are in good company...

[pound_foolish]

I was going to suggest a silver money clip, holding some Iraqi Dinar.

[BicycleB]

I was going to suggest a silver money clip, holding some Iraqi Dinar.

Very generous of you, @pound_foolish, considering your screen name could have led to suggesting British pounds.

[iluvzbeach]

Well, since we’re making gift suggestions, I was going to recommend some VTSAX as it might actually be worth more over time. You know, in case something totally unexpected happens and the silver market bottoms out. ;)

[pound_foolish]

I was going to suggest a silver money clip, holding some Iraqi Dinar.

Very generous of you, @pound_foolish, considering your screen name could have led to suggesting British pounds.

Lol. I was referencing the silver collector's old "investment" of Iraqui Dinar.

[Adventine]

All I want for Christmas is an update to OP's original story.

[Metalcat]

All I want for Christmas is an update to OP's original story.

I would bet solid sums that they started shilling holistic covid prevention treatments to anti-vaxxers.

[clarkfan1979]

I was told that my brother wants physical silver bars for Christmas and to buy it from JM Bullion. I bought 2 ounces at $22.60 an ounce. It cost me $70.95. There is some sort of an up-charge per ounce around $5.00 ounce. I also paid sales tax of 6% and shipping of $7.99. With all the extra charges, I paid 56% more than market value.

If you buy at least $200 you can avoid the $7.99 delivery fee, which would lower the extra charges to 39%. According to my calculations, anyone buying this stuff needs silver to appreciate by 39% just to break even. This assumes 0% transactions costs on the sell side.

[Metalcat]

I was told that my brother wants physical silver bars for Christmas and to buy it from JM Bullion. I bought 2 ounces at $22.60 an ounce. It cost me $70.95. There is some sort of an up-charge per ounce around $5.00 ounce. I also paid sales tax of 6% and shipping of $7.99. With all the extra charges, I paid 56% more than market value.

If you buy at least $200 you can avoid the $7.99 delivery fee, which would lower the extra charges to 39%. According to my calculations, anyone buying this stuff needs silver to appreciate by 39% just to break even. This assumes 0% transactions costs on the sell side.

My anti-vaxxer brother is a silver hoarder, and this entertains me to no end.

[ixtap]

I was told that my brother wants physical silver bars for Christmas and to buy it from JM Bullion. I bought 2 ounces at $22.60 an ounce. It cost me $70.95. There is some sort of an up-charge per ounce around $5.00 ounce. I also paid sales tax of 6% and shipping of $7.99. With all the extra charges, I paid 56% more than market value.

If you buy at least $200 you can avoid the $7.99 delivery fee, which would lower the extra charges to 39%. According to my calculations, anyone buying this stuff needs silver to appreciate by 39% just to break even. This assumes 0% transactions costs on the sell side.

My anti-vaxxer brother is a silver hoarder, and this entertains me to no end.

If my brother mentions silver, I will totally ask "Thirty pieces?"

[Zamboni]

Oooh, I googled 30 pieces of silver and learned!

[PDXTabs]

If those were 1 oz silver pieces that would be worth ~$700 today in USD. That's a cheap betrayal.

[clarkfan1979]

My brother is going to be in Miami for a business opportunity for 1-2 months. It involves transporting precious stones.

That is all I know. Anyone have any idea on what scam this is?

I finally got some info on this diamond/precious stones business opportunity.

My brother and wife bought some "crypto". However, it is not legit crypto on an open exchange. It caters to a conspiracy theory crowd. You buy it with US currency. However, when you want to sell, you cannot sell it for US currency. However, there are other crazy people on the website that will trade for it. My brothers wife found someone on the website that was willing to trade the crypto for diamonds. In an attempt to recover their crypto money, they are selling their crypto in exchange for diamonds and then selling the diamonds to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. The diamond guy recently stopped trading with them and they are seeking other ways to trade on the website.

They sold their house in Florida in January 2020. Housing prices are up 53% over the last two years (Jan 2020 to Jan 2022).

They used a big chunk of the US currency from the house sale to purchase crypto. They then use the crypto to buy diamonds to sell to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. They then use that US currency to purchase silver. I think they are then going to sell the silver for US currency and buy a million dollar house. Seems like a plan to me.

I recently said that my brother gave my parents $1200 worth of silver for staying at their house for 2 months. He bought them a kilogram bar of silver, which was worth $795 (at the time). It's now worth $730 due to price drops in silver. It's very possible that he paid $1200 for the bar because of the 40% transaction fees. Not sure if there are any transactions fees if my parents ever decide to sell it. Maybe they get $700 for it?


   

[BicycleB]

Great update!

Kind of illustrates the role of trust in financial systems. Lack of trust adds costs.

[RWD]

My brother is going to be in Miami for a business opportunity for 1-2 months. It involves transporting precious stones.

That is all I know. Anyone have any idea on what scam this is?

I finally got some info on this diamond/precious stones business opportunity.

My brother and wife bought some "crypto". However, it is not legit crypto on an open exchange. It caters to a conspiracy theory crowd. You buy it with US currency. However, when you want to sell, you cannot sell it for US currency. However, there are other crazy people on the website that will trade for it. My brothers wife found someone on the website that was willing to trade the crypto for diamonds. In an attempt to recover their crypto money, they are selling their crypto in exchange for diamonds and then selling the diamonds to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. The diamond guy recently stopped trading with them and they are seeking other ways to trade on the website.

They sold their house in Florida in January 2020. Housing prices are up 53% over the last two years (Jan 2020 to Jan 2022).

They used a big chunk of the US currency from the house sale to purchase crypto. They then use the crypto to buy diamonds to sell to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. They then use that US currency to purchase silver. I think they are then going to sell the silver for US currency and buy a million dollar house. Seems like a plan to me.

I recently said that my brother gave my parents $1200 worth of silver for staying at their house for 2 months. He bought them a kilogram bar of silver, which was worth $795 (at the time). It's now worth $730 due to price drops in silver. It's very possible that he paid $1200 for the bar because of the 40% transaction fees. Not sure if there are any transactions fees if my parents ever decide to sell it. Maybe they get $700 for it?

Looks like Kitco would buy it for $711 (minus shipping). So $700 net seems about right...
https://online.kitco.com/sell/2003B/1-kg-Silver-Bar-999-2003B

[moof]

Great update!

Kind of illustrates the role of trust in financial systems. Lack of trust adds costs.

Many things in the USA have imposed large burdens along these lines.
1.  Retirement is an individual problem, so we all have to be financial experts.
2.  Taxes are self-prepared and painfully complex, so we all have to be accountants once a year, or pay a bridge troll like Intuit to sell us software to do it ourselves.
3.  Medical billing is a hellscape of despair, so we have to be come billing experts, lawyers, forensic accountants, and call center operators to deal with hospitals when things go sideways.
4.  Child care is also a personal issue where you get to work a second job to help your kid in Zoom school at the drop of a hat, and play the infant lottery if you don't want one parent to be SAH.
One could go on much longer if you stopped and realized all the dumb ways our time is taxed in bizarre and inhumane ways.  Society has become slowly more and more broken and it has done so at such a gradual pace that almost nobody seems upset enough to go protest in the streets.

[clarkfan1979]

Great update!

Kind of illustrates the role of trust in financial systems. Lack of trust adds costs.

Many things in the USA have imposed large burdens along these lines.
1.  Retirement is an individual problem, so we all have to be financial experts.
2.  Taxes are self-prepared and painfully complex, so we all have to be accountants once a year, or pay a bridge troll like Intuit to sell us software to do it ourselves.
3.  Medical billing is a hellscape of despair, so we have to be come billing experts, lawyers, forensic accountants, and call center operators to deal with hospitals when things go sideways.
4.  Child care is also a personal issue where you get to work a second job to help your kid in Zoom school at the drop of a hat, and play the infant lottery if you don't want one parent to be SAH.
One could go on much longer if you stopped and realized all the dumb ways our time is taxed in bizarre and inhumane ways.  Society has become slowly more and more broken and it has done so at such a gradual pace that almost nobody seems upset enough to go protest in the streets.

These points are a big reason why education is highly correlated with net worth.

I have cousins who make more money than me in the trades. However, they do not have the education to solve real world problems beyond their job. They have a house with some equity and a small pension. That's about it. All of their extra money goes toward penalties for non-payment and paying other people to solve their problems. They pay a huge tax with their money. I pay a tax with my time. However, based on my level of education and experience, it doesn't take much of my time to figure out paying my taxes, medical bills and insurance bills.

[Zamboni]

^Wow, this whole $4crypto4diamonds4$fromSomeGuyinMiami4silver4$4house scheme sounds really complicated. They must really be organized! No wonder that most of us boring schmucks just stay poor!

[snowball]

^Wow, this whole $4crypto4diamonds4$fromSomeGuyinMiami4silver4$4house scheme sounds really complicated. They must really be organized! No wonder that most of us boring schmucks just stay poor!

Lol, that sums up exactly what I was thinking, only I couldn’t quite phrase it so succinctly to myself. $4crypto4diamonds4$fromSomeGuyinMiami4silver4$4house, indeed. It is a beautiful scheme in its own #truthisstrangerthanfiction kind of way.

[clarkfan1979]

My brother is going to be in Miami for a business opportunity for 1-2 months. It involves transporting precious stones.

That is all I know. Anyone have any idea on what scam this is?

I finally got some info on this diamond/precious stones business opportunity.

My brother and wife bought some "crypto". However, it is not legit crypto on an open exchange. It caters to a conspiracy theory crowd. You buy it with US currency. However, when you want to sell, you cannot sell it for US currency. However, there are other crazy people on the website that will trade for it. My brothers wife found someone on the website that was willing to trade the crypto for diamonds. In an attempt to recover their crypto money, they are selling their crypto in exchange for diamonds and then selling the diamonds to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. The diamond guy recently stopped trading with them and they are seeking other ways to trade on the website.

They sold their house in Florida in January 2020. Housing prices are up 53% over the last two years (Jan 2020 to Jan 2022).

They used a big chunk of the US currency from the house sale to purchase crypto. They then use the crypto to buy diamonds to sell to jewelry stores in Miami for US currency. They then use that US currency to purchase silver. I think they are then going to sell the silver for US currency and buy a million dollar house. Seems like a plan to me.

I recently said that my brother gave my parents $1200 worth of silver for staying at their house for 2 months. He bought them a kilogram bar of silver, which was worth $795 (at the time). It's now worth $730 due to price drops in silver. It's very possible that he paid $1200 for the bar because of the 40% transaction fees. Not sure if there are any transactions fees if my parents ever decide to sell it. Maybe they get $700 for it?
   

I originally claimed that my brother paid 33% mark-up for silver because his wife directed us to the website in which they buy their silver. I bought 1 ounce and paid a 33% mark-up. However, if you are buying 100 ounce bars, I recently found out that the mark-up fee is lower. It's "only" 15%.

In conclusion, if you are buying 100 ounce silver bars it costs you an extra 15% to buy, + local sales tax (6%) + 4% to sell + shipping costs.

[Michael in ABQ]

I originally claimed that my brother paid 33% mark-up for silver because his wife directed us to the website in which they buy their silver. I bought 1 ounce and paid a 33% mark-up. However, if you are buying 100 ounce bars, I recently found out that the mark-up fee is lower. It's "only" 15%.

In conclusion, if you are buying 100 ounce silver bars it costs you an extra 15% to buy, + local sales tax (6%) + 4% to sell + shipping costs.

About 20 years ago I bought some gold coins. This was back when gold was about $350 an ounce. Instead of buying some bullion I bought into the sale pitch on the phone and purchased Swiss Francs - which of course were marked up 15-20% over the spot price of gold. Fast forward a couple of years and gold was at $450 an ounce. I sold the coins back to the same company and basically broken even on a ~$2,500 investment.

That money then went into some individual financial stocks in the early 2000s which dropped 80-90% after 2008.

I learned my lesson and just stick to index funds now.